Here & Now

Here & Now for July 31, 2020

Announcer:

The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” Governor Tony Evers orders a statewide mask mandate. Republican opposition is quick to follow. It was a busy week in Washington: coronavirus relief, a sharp economic downturn and debate over federal agents in U.S. cities. U.S Representatives Tom Tiffany and Mark Pocan are here. And Marisa Wojcik reports on how Wisconsin Tribal Nations are fighting COVID-19. It’s “Here & Now” for July 31st.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

Governor Evers announces a statewide mask mandate to take effect Saturday and through September. But Republican legislative leaders say they are ready to convene to overturn the emergency order that includes the mask rule. Republicans in the legislature as well as some local and county officials around the state say the order, like the administration’s “safer at home” mandate that was struck down by the Supreme Court, is another executive overreach. We will hear from the Washington County executive in a few minutes. But under the order, starting tomorrow, masks are required for anyone five years of age or older while indoors except at a private residence. Students and school staff who return to the classroom are also required to wear masks. Violating the order comes with fines of up to $200.

Tony Evers:

I know there have been those who’ve demanded a piecemeal rather than a statewide approach. They’ve said we do not need a statewide effort to respond to this crisis. Well, we tried their way. Folks, it’s not working. The statewide efforts to combat this virus have worked before and so that’s what we announced here today. So today I declared a new statewide public health emergency as we battle the new surge of COVID-19 across our state. I also announced a new face covering order that will go into effect on August 1 at 12:01 a.m., give folks enough time to get face coverings if they don’t already have them. Although we’re facing new and different circumstances than we were a few months ago, the one thing that hasn’t changed since then is what I’ve said all along. We’re going to listen to the science and public health experts to guide our decision-making. And folks, the science and public health experts are telling us that face coverings and masks can save lives. My mask protects you. Your mask protects me. Our masks work best when we both wear them together. This virus has shown up in every county in the state of Wisconsin, so it’s not like if there’s a county line there that the virus stops, nor is it stopping people from going to work in a different county or whatever. This surge is a statewide surge. One of the counties we had very few cases just exploded with a number of cases that they now have. And so a statewide effort to wear a mask is really important because the virus does not know boundaries, even though we do a lot of looking at data around different counties. But every county in the state of Wisconsin is impacted by this virus. I know folks are worried that the order I’m issuing today keep people — to keep people healthy and safe will immediately be challenged by Republicans in the court. I know folks are worried another ruling could just create more chaos as we respond to this pandemic. I’m worried about that, too. But my job as governor is to put people first, to do what’s best for the people of our state and do everything I can to keep people healthy and safe.

Frederica Freyberg:

As mentioned, Republicans at the State Capitol immediately voiced opposition to the mask order with leaders now saying they are ready to convene the Legislature to overturn the emergency order mandating masks. Meanwhile some local officials are opposed as well. People like the Washington County executive Josh Schoemann. He joins us now from West Bend. And thanks for doing so.

Josh Schoemann:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

You say the public health emergency and mask mandate is an executive power grab and you call it dangerous. How so?

Josh Schoemann:

Yeah. My major concern is with the emergency order itself. The mask mandate, you know, we’ve been urging people to wear masks for quite some time over the course of the last several weeks out of love for their neighbor and we feel they’ve been doing that. A lot of businesses across Washington County and the state of Wisconsin has done the same. But really this emergency order allows for much, much more than that. If you read the specifics of it, it goes well beyond that, even to the August 11 election and things of that nature. I’m concerned we’re going back to the same place we were in March and I’m not sure that’s appropriate and I hope the legislature steps in.

Frederica Freyberg:

Again, specific to that mask mandate that is part of the emergency order, do you oppose mandating masks?

Josh Schoemann:

Yeah. I think that people really have done a very nice job of getting better at wearing masks, myself included. It’s certainly taking a bit of a change culturally and psychologically. And we’ve seen businesses across the state and across Washington County who have put their own restrictions in place based on what’s best for them. I think that was working. And now having a mandate with a forfeiture tied to it, I really think is not the right approach.

Frederica Freyberg:

Will your county sheriff be among those who will not enforce it?

Josh Schoemann:

Yes. We’ve had conversations with both our district attorney and our county sheriff as well as our public health officer and it will not be enforced by county officials.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about how the governor says that he is following the science and there is uncontrolled community spread of COVID-19 and he just wants to protect people?

Josh Schoemann:

I understand his approach. I think what he’s attempting to do was getting people to wear a mask. I understand. I just don’t think the angle he’s taking works appropriately. And by going ahead with an emergency order, it makes it much broader than just masks and that’s the real problem.

Frederica Freyberg:

Because you say that opening the door to school or business closures leads to economic ruin. But this question, can’t the virus itself, if uncontrolled, lead to its own ruin?

Josh Schoemann:

The virus is certainly dangerous and very serious, not a hoax in any way, shape or form. People should take it seriously. We urge them to follow not just the masking suggestion, but all guidance from the CDC and public health officials. But really shutting things down as we did back in March, April and May can have effects that are long-lasting and far past these months, especially having kids out of school. And the CDC and the American Association of Pediatricians have said exactly that about children in schools. That’s what I’m very concerned about.

Frederica Freyberg:

We need to leave it there. Thanks very much.

Josh Schoemann:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now to Washington, where the Democratic-led House Judiciary Committee grilled U.S. Attorney General William Barr Tuesday. 7th District Congressman Tom Tiffany is a Republican committee member. He joined in the questioning on topics including ongoing protests around the country and the placement of federal agents in U.S. cities. All of this takes place as Congress debates the next coronavirus relief bill and as Commerce Department announced a record decline in economic growth in the last quarter. In a few minutes, we will talk with Democratic U.S. Representative Mark Pocan. We are joined by now Republican Congressman Tom Tiffany, who is in Washington. Thanks for being here.

Tom Tiffany:

Good to be with you again, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

So I know you’re far away but you’ll be home soon. What is your reaction to the mask mandate ordered by Governor Evers?

Tom Tiffany:

I trust my friends and neighbors to do the right thing. And I think Governor Evers should trust them also. I think about small businesses and others. Some of them have mask mandates. And you get to choose whether you get to go into that business or not. I just think Governor Evers should trust the people of Wisconsin to make the right decision for themselves. And I think he’s focusing on the wrong issues. When you have statues being torn down at the Capitol, the Capitol nearly being harmed a few weeks ago, as well as unemployment compensation claims not being taken care of by the Evers administration. Some people have not gotten their checks from months ago. We’re hearing about foreclosures. People losing their vehicles. I think Governor Evers has more important things he should be focused on.

Frederica Freyberg:

And I want to talk about some of those things in a moment but Dr. Deborah Birx of the White House Coronavirus Task Force told states that they should impose mask mandates especially in the midst of these surges. So what about that kind of messaging from the White House?

Tom Tiffany:

I think Governor Evers should work with the Legislature. The Legislature’s been offering to work with him throughout this whole process, including when the Supreme Court interceded back in May. And they made it clear. Go work with the Legislature. That’s what Governor Evers should do.

Frederica Freyberg:

Do you personally wear a mask indoors or when you cannot distance?

Tom Tiffany:

I do wear a mask. Like I’m out in DC right now, whenever I’m walking the halls, going in to vote, things like that, I wear a mask.

Frederica Freyberg:

As to unemployment which we were speaking about just a moment ago, what is your position on whether the extra $600 a week in unemployment benefits should be extended in the next federal coronavirus package?

Tom Tiffany:

Yeah. That’s one of the key questions that’s before us out here in Congress and I think you’re seeing the Senate leadership along with the House leadership led by House Speaker Pelosi, that’s really what they’re talking about. And Speaker Pelosi wants to extend the $600 add-on for unemployment. But when you think about the numbers, I’m not sure that’s the best route to go ’cause when you look at unemployment in Wisconsin, the base unemployment is $9.25 an hour. It’s an equivalent to that. When you add the $600 bonus on to that, that’s another $15. A person would be making nearly $25 an hour being on unemployment. Now, I think most people just want to go to work. But I think unemployment shouldn’t be that rich. I mean, if you take a look at a couple, if a couple is both on unemployment, they’re making the equivalent of $100,000 a year with that $600 add-on. Employers are telling us we need employees. And it’s time — we built that bridge with the enhanced unemployment. Now it’s time to ratchet that back.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about aid to state and local governments? Do you think that Wisconsin should see additional money from the feds?

Tom Tiffany:

Well, they’ve already received additional dollars, so in the CARES package from a few months ago, $2 billion was allocated to the state of Wisconsin. And that was for Governor Evers. The governors were given sole authority over it and they were able to distribute those dollars. I think the federal government was very generous in giving that $2 billion to Wisconsin. And Governor Evers can allocate that as he choose to, whether it’s schools, local governments and others.

Frederica Freyberg:

Let’s turn to this. As a member of the House Judiciary Committee you had occasion as we said this week to question Attorney General Bill Barr. You asked him to stop the riots in places like Madison. Would you support bringing in federal police agents to do that, including those that are coming into Milwaukee, for example?

Tom Tiffany:

It would be preferable that federal agents do not come in. However, if there’s federal buildings, federal property that is being damaged, then the federal government has a duty to go in and protect those properties. It’s like Portland. At that federal courthouse out there, they have a duty to protect and that’s what they’re doing out there. If it’s federal assets, they should be protected by the federal government.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Gohmert announced he tested COVID positive following that hearing before the Judiciary Committee. Do you expect to be tested because of any contact you had with him?

Tom Tiffany:

Yeah. I talked to the House physician in regards to that, and I was not within Representative Gohmert for 15 minutes, within six feet for 15 minutes, so they said just closely monitor. You do not have to test. I’d be happy to take a test anytime, but the House physician said it’s probably not necessary, just monitor, and that’s what I’m doing.

Frederica Freyberg:

What’s it like to be in the midst of a busy city, Capitol Hill, and people are getting sick and you all are doing your jobs and flying back and forth. What is that like?

Tom Tiffany:

You make sure you keep yourself safe. You make sure you distance as appropriately. The airlines have tough restrictions in place. They require masks whenever you’re on a plane, in an airport. Those things are all happening to make sure that we protect our health. I just think the most important thing is we all need to be aware. We as individuals have a responsibility, and that’s the most important thing that we can all do, is take responsibility for our health.

Frederica Freyberg:

Congressman Tom Tiffany, thanks very much for joining us.

Tom Tiffany:

Yeah. It was good to be on today, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

Thank you. Now to the other side of the aisle and Wisconsin’s 2nd District Congressman Democrat Mark Pocan. Thanks for being here.

Mark Pocan:

Thank you. Glad to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:

First off, what is your response to the new statewide emergency order and mask mandate that goes into effect tomorrow?

Mark Pocan:

Well, I’m glad. A majority of states already have this. Republican governors, democratic governors because it’s in the best interest of the people. For the sheriffs that are saying they’re not going to enforce this, I think it’s pretty ridiculous. They’re taking their personal politics over their oaths, which is to uphold the law. To anybody who really thinks this is a burden on their freedom, I hope that they are consistent and they go barefoot and shirtless into every store that they go into, because that also is against those freedoms that they seem to espouse around masks. This is just common sense, you know. I’ve seen studies that if both people have a mask, the chance can be as little as 1.5% chance of someone getting the virus when you have that situation. So there’s reasons why over 70% of people support these mask orders. It’s a good thing we have it in Wisconsin and I congratulate the governor on doing it.

Frederica Freyberg:

You’ve been talking about it for a while. Do you think that Governor Evers should have acted sooner on this?

Mark Pocan:

Well, I’m just glad we have it now. Majority of states have this. I think recently they showed some — we have some spikes in Wisconsin we need to address and I think this will certainly help us toward that so we can figure out what to do this fall with schools and make sure that businesses are able to stay open. If you really care about your local businesses staying open, it’s important that we keep the numbers done and the best way to do that is following the mask order.

Frederica Freyberg:

In Washington, we know that Congress is working on the next coronavirus aid package. What is your reaction to the Republican Senate wanting to reduce the extra unemployment benefit from $600 a week to $200?

Mark Pocan:

First of all, for two and a half months — two and a half months ago we passed a bill and they’ve sat and done nothing. Now they’re first coming around to doing their jobs which I think is amazing and I’m saying that word because I’m not allowed to say other words on TV. But the fact that they would reduce that extra support for unemployment, don’t forget, people have lost their jobs at no fault of their own. As many small businesses have lost demand at no fault of their own because of the disease. Obviously restaurants and bars, tourism, meeting industry, go down the list. There’s a lot of people severely impacted. To say somehow we’re going to punish those people, again through no fault of their own, and they’re going to be making as little as unemployment offers doesn’t seem to make sense. We want people not to be evicted. We want people to be able to feed their families. That extra support was really doing that. Study after study has shown us that it worked. I think $200 just isn’t nearly enough to be additional. We’re going to continue to try to fight for the $600. But I think the fact that they’re even –that’s a priority at the same time they’re throwing into their package funding for F-35s and bigger deductions for two martini lunches just shows how awful their priorities are.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about the argument that giving people that extra $600 puts them above the place where they were when they were working and so it’s a disincentive to find work?

Mark Pocan:

So first of all, it’s never been proven. In fact by many university studies, they say this is not what has happened with the extra money. So it just doesn’t hit facts. In the few anecdotes where it may be true, you would have to be paying someone $10 or $12 for that to be true. Most jobs aren’t paying that low. You’re not really a job creator at that point. You’re a poverty enhancer at that point. I think what this is really showing is that on those really low-paid jobs at $10 an hour, for example, you’re below the poverty line with a family when you’re making a $10 an hour job. Maybe that’s part of the job, right? So we need to address raising minimum wage at a future time. Many of us have advocated to do to $15 an hour. In this particular situation, you’d have to be a really low-paying employer for this to have any impact.

Frederica Freyberg:

Meanwhile, out of Washington what other kind of help should states like Wisconsin and people living here expect around coronavirus aid?

Mark Pocan:

I think some of our priorities have obviously been the unemployment assistance for people again who have lost their job at no fault of their own. Helping small businesses who lost demand because of a lot of unique situations like we’ve talked about with restaurants and bars and tourism. We need to make sure that state and local governments have money. They’re the ones providing the services right now and yet they’re laying off people because it’s costing them so much to do that. We need to do that. We have to shore up the testing to make sure that we’re continuing it do that and contact tracing. We have to protect those front line workers because we didn’t do that in the first CARES Act and a number of other things. But it’s still focused on COVID. It’s just ridiculous that somehow the Republicans in their bill put funding for F-35s and two martini lunch tax deductions in when we should be focusing on people affected.

Frederica Freyberg:

With just about a minute left, I want to get to this. The U.S. Justice Department announces that it will be sending federal agents into Milwaukee. They say it’s for violent crime fighting not protest control, but what is your reaction to what’s called “Operation Legend” in Wisconsin?

Mark Pocan:

Operation Legend is nothing more than the president’s last gasp at trying to survive before drowning before the November elections. He realizes he’s not doing well in the polls. The economy is not doing well. His response to COVID has been pathetic. And because of that, he’s trying to bring those suburban voters back in and he thinks if he scares people that’s the way to do that. That’s what he tried in Portland. It didn’t work. Moms and veterans and other came out and stood in protest to what he was doing. Now he’s removing people from there without any rhyme or reason. And now he’s landing in places like Milwaukee. It’s a pathetic final gasp to try to survive and I think everyone really sees it as just that.

Frederica Freyberg:

We need to leave it there. Congressman Mark Pocan, thanks very much.

Mark Pocan:

Yeah. Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Not everywhere in Wisconsin is following health guidance to slow the spread of the coronavirus considered controversial. “Here & Now” Reporter Marisa Wojcik spoke with area Tribal Nations about how their communities are taking a different approach in responding to the continued threat of COVID-19.

Tehassi Hill:

We’ve been keeping our eye on this issue as it rose and we started hearings rumblings of COVID-19, coronavirus in the early part of the year.

Marisa Wojcik:

In March when the realities of COVID-19 hit Wisconsin, the response from Tribal Nations were in lockstep with the state, if not ahead of the game.

Debbie Danforth:

We had already closed our facilities, probably about three weeks prior to the state making that order. And I think that helped us in terms of assuring that our elders and our residents within the nursing home stayed safe.

Marisa Wojcik:

For many Tribal Nations, the response was swift to ensure the virus couldn’t take hold.

Tehassi Hill:

We take great pride in making sure our community and public safety and health is a major thing to strive for, and so especially being obviously Native American and our health disparities are wide. And so any type of disease that has potential to outbreak and be a pandemic, as this has turned out to be, are potentially devastating, especially for Tribal Nations like ours. Like I mentioned, we only have about 17,000 members and that’s it. And so, you know, not to say, you know, that a life has a higher priority or not, but with us, we’re so limited that any action we can take to save a life, we’re going to try to do that.

Amy Slagle:

This is a very vulnerable group of folks, and the tribe, the Menominee people, the leaders all recognized that immediately and knew that we had to respond quickly and aggressively to keep the virus from gaining a foothold because if it does, it will reap devastation.

Marlon Whiteeagle:

Our elders, those are our native language speakers. They — so we value our language and the transmission and, you know, the preservation of our language.

Marisa Wojcik:

Some nations, like the Menominee Indian Tribe of Wisconsin, used their sovereignty to enact enforceable directives such as a curfew to try and keep people from gathering at night.

Joan Delabreau:

We want people to cooperate. You want them to do this for their betterment. That’s the only way you’re going to get buy-in.

Debbie Danforth:

The difference for us is that this is our community. This is our families. This — you know, the death could have been a relative.

Marisa Wojcik:

When it came to weighing the costs and benefits of health versus the economy, for Tribal leaders, it wasn’t even a debate.

Joan Delabreau:

Economics are last when you’re in a pandemic. Keeping people safe, keeping people healthy, keeping people alive, that’s what’s important.

Marisa Wojcik:

But even a clear decision has its consequences.

Tehassi Hill:

It wasn’t necessarily hard to make, but just knowing what that economic impact was going to be of having, you know, some 90%, 95% of our revenue coming from gaming and then shutting those operations down, we were on schedule and on pace for our projections for revenue generation for the year all the way up until we shut down in March. So it went from meeting those projections to zero.

Louise Cornelius:

It was devastating for our nation.

Marisa Wojcik:

After months of being shut down, the Oneida Nation and many other nations were able to open their casinos back up.

Louise Cornelius:

So it’s all hands on deck here. Right now, we have about 418 employees back, called back. So when you come in, every morning you have to come through this employee entrance and you go through the same process as the customer does. You get your temperature checked. You have to have a mask. You are asked about five different questions regarding your health.

Marisa Wojcik:

A recent uptick seen both in state numbers and tribal numbers could mean going back on the defensive.

Amy Slagle:

We’ve had a small outbreak on the reservation that was related to a family gathering this week. The tribal leadership moved very quickly to respond that. We have now reversed ourselves on the reopening plan.

Marisa Wojcik:

Despite this setback, the total number of positive cases for Menominee County sits at 15.

Amy Slagle:

I think we’re still in good shape. We just want to keep it that way.

Marisa Wojcik:

Overall the numbers generally prove out. In Wisconsin, the number of positive cases on or near reservations is nearly half the rate of the rest of the state according to most recent data. Whatever it can be attributed to, Tribal Nations continue to navigate best steps with autonomy and eye on the data and community responsibility.

Amy Slagle:

Some days I’m terrified. We all understand that while we’ve held things off very well so far, it could change in a day or two and COVID can catch like wildfire.

Tehassi Hill:

It’s going to be more on the front of the discussion rather than we’ll make this plan for in case this happens. Now that we’ve lived through it, we know it can happen and what it looks like and what it’s going to take to move forward.

Marisa Wojcik:

For “Here & Now,” I’m Marisa Wojcik.

Frederica Freyberg:

After earlier closing their casino and then reopening again, the Menominee Tribe announced today that the Menominee Casino and Resort and Thunderbird Gaming will once again close down until August 11th due to a growing health threat posed by COVID-19.

And that is our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.