Here & Now

Here & Now for July 27, 2018

Announcer:

The following program is part of our “Here & Now” 2018 Wisconsin Vote election coverage.

Frederica Freyberg:

I’m Frederica Freyberg. This week on “Here & Now,” a first look at new information about the Russian hacking threat to Wisconsin elections, past and present. After that, an inside look at how the trade war is having an impact on Wisconsin farmers. Then, a closer look at democratic gubernatorial candidate and Kenosha attorney Josh Pade as he joins us in studio. It’s “Here & Now” for July 27.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.

Frederica Freyberg:

A first look this week at new information about the external threat to Wisconsin elections. Wisconsin is and has been a key swing state in recent elections. Security experts are warning they have proof the voting systems can be hacked. Even machines not connected to the internet can be breached. However, state and local election officials say don’t worry. Grigor Atanesian, a native of St. Petersburg, Russia, is a Fullbright scholar and an Edmund S. Muskie fellow at the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism. He joins us this week with his findings and thanks very much for being here.

Grigor Atanesian:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

Really amazing reporting, so we thank you for bringing it to us. But with the primary weeks away and the 2018 midterms months away, how real, according to your reporting, are threats from Russia to the election system in Wisconsin?

Grigor Atanesian:

So the U.S. Intelligence community says that the midterms are under threat, a possible target. Trump Administration, I mean the Department of Homeland Security say it is a possible target.

Frederica Freyberg:

What does your reporting show about what Russia was already kind of able to target in Wisconsin in 2016?

Grigor Atanesian:

So there are two different issues. One is election systems and another is the whole environment and information around it. So Russians didn’t do much in terms of tampering votes. They tried to breach, actually they didn’t breach, the service of the Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development. We assume it was a mistake. They targeted the Wisconsin Elections Commission but just had the wrong address. So that’s it in terms of hacking the voting system per se. But Wisconsin was a target of a very sophisticated misinformation campaign, together with Pennsylvania and other key, sort of battleground swing states. This campaign tapped into divisive issues like race or guns or minority rights. And, for example, there was a Twitter account which was called, titled Milwaukee Voice, and it was styled as a local news outlet. It is now deactivated but if you go on Twitter and look it up, you can see the replies to it are still on. So people were believing it’s a local news outlet and people were replying, “Oh, what a crazy story” and stuff like that. So this was huge in Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

Our election officials here in Wisconsin always say that things are secure because the system is so decentralized, like local clerks run the elections. But do experts you talked with say that that keeps the system safe from cyber attack?

Grigor Atanesian:

So the experts do admit that this diversity and decentralization is a strength, but they warn in a close race, and there’s a lot of close races in Wisconsin, it’s not a safeguard, because you don’t need to hack all the systems around the state. You only need to hack some machines, right? And we know there was in 2011 there was a race which had a local county clerk made a mistake. They forgot — he say they lost some 14,000 votes and the race outcome was a Supreme Court race. It was changed. So you only need to hack some systems.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about the fact that we use paper ballots not connected to the internet? We’re told that that is a safeguard.

Grigor Atanesian:

That is definitely a safeguard, and Wisconsin is very happy to have it. All the experts say that it is a strength. But the big problems is they also say that it’s not enough. The paper shouldn’t be for show. That’s what experts say. You need to check it. You need to verify the outcome.

Frederica Freyberg:

And that has everything to do with kind of post-election audits; is that right?

Grigor Atanesian:

That’s correct. So to be completely clear here, Wisconsin has post-election audits, but they are not to verify the outcome. They just check if the whole equipment functioned properly. Once again, national intelligence and security community says that’s not enough.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what would be the effect of a post-election audit? How would that help the election integrity in the state of Wisconsin?

Grigor Atanesian:

So whatever happens if the election is hacked or there is a human error or there is a program error, it will see immediately, before you verify and before you certify the election outcome. So whatever happens before you certify the election and send possibly the wrong result, you find out what happened.

Frederica Freyberg:

And is there a move in Wisconsin to move toward these kinds of post-election audits?

Grigor Atanesian:

Well, in our interview the Wisconsin Election Commission’s interim administrator Meagan Wolfe said that her staff recently traveled to Colorado, where this kind of post-election audit is already implemented, and they said that they are thinking of implementing it in a framework of an existing law. And it will be on the agenda of their meeting in September.

Frederica Freyberg:

Okay. So too late for any kind of primary coming up next month, obviously. But there’s some other issues as well. We use optical scanners with our paper ballots. Are those hackable?

Grigor Atanesian:

So the experts say that saying that something is unhackable is just wrong. It’s a myth. Every piece of equipment on earth is hackable. You just need to know what kind of vulnerabilities it has. The problem is one of the problems is the voting machines are being produced and serviced by private vendors.

Frederica Freyberg:

Right. And that includes those touch screen machines that are used for people with disabilities in what, like, three or four counties in Wisconsin?

Grigor Atanesian:

That’s frankly– that is an issue. It’s not quite big of an issue because very little number of voters use them. But yes. These machines were proven to be hackable recently.

Frederica Freyberg:

You know, it seems to me that there’s two camps here. Some say people are sounding the alarm unnecessarily, this is totally overblown, this threat. And others are saying, no, the threat is actually being downplayed. So what have you found in your reporting about where we actually stand as to whether or not Wisconsin is potentially, you know, at real jeopardy for its system being hacked into?

Grigor Atanesian:

This is a good question. I feel like the consensus among the experts is that we shouldn’t be really alarmed and we shouldn’t be worried and people should go out and vote. But the officials should adopt any best practice which is recommended, like post-election audits.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We need to leave it there. Thank you very much. Excellent reporting.

Grigor Atanesian:

Thanks for having me, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

The Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism reporting about election integrity appears online and in newspapers across the state this Sunday. In agriculture news, the Trump Administration this week announced it would provide up to $12 billion in emergency relief to farmers hurt by the president’s worldwide trade war. Wisconsin’s democrat and congressional leaders showed a united front in opposing the president’s tariffs and bailout plan. House Speaker Paul Ryan had this to say at his weekly press briefing.

Paul Ryan:

I’ve made it pretty clear I don’t think tariffs are the right answer. I don’t support tariffs. I think tariffs are taxes. I think there are better tools that we can use to hold abusers of trade laws and people who — countries that perpetuate unfair trade practices, I think there are better tools to use to get them to play fairly.

Frederica Freyberg:

In response to the president’s actions, Wisconsin’s Republican Senator Ron Johnson said, “This is becoming more and more like a Soviet type of economy here. Commissars deciding who’s going to be granted waivers, commissars in the administration figuring out how they’re going to be sprinkling around benefits. Wisconsin’s Democratic Senator Tammy Baldwin also opposes the president’s tariffs move saying, “Our farmers are struggling and trade wars are not helping. They are hurting our Wisconsin economy. That’s why I called on the Trump Administration to use the authority Congress provided to take immediate action to support Wisconsin farmers and to put in place a plan to maintain the strength of agriculture exports.”

In tonight’s inside look, the impact of the trade war on Wisconsin farmers. The European Union, Canada, Mexico, China and other countries responded to President Trump’s tariffs with tariffs of their own. They’re often targeting farm country, the source of some of America’s biggest exports and an important political base for the president. The $12 billion in farm aid announced this week primarily targets soybean producers, dairy and hog farmers. Jim Holte, the president of the Wisconsin Farm Bureau Federation, joins us from Green Bay to give us his insights on the impact of the tariffs on Wisconsin farmers. Thanks very much for being here.

Jim Holte:

Thank you for the invitation.

Frederica Freyberg:

Tariffs and trade issues are fast-moving at week’s end as you know. It looks like President Trump and the E.U. have reached an accord over tariffs potentially. What can you tell me about what this mean for Wisconsin agriculture right now?

Jim Holte:

It’s a little bit difficult to answer that question because just as you have a lack of details, so do we. But I would say we’re encouraged that the Federation continues to work on bilateral agreements. All trade agreements are important to agriculture in Wisconsin and we’re encouraged that there is some positive movement.

Frederica Freyberg:

What have retaliatory tariffs imposed by the E.U., Mexico, Canada or China meant for Wisconsin producers so far?

Jim Holte:

Well, many producers like myself would follow the futures markets on each of those products and those help us to take some risk out of our businesses. And when the tariffs were announced on each side of the aisle– of the countries, rather, they depressed those markets because there’s a lot of uncertainty in the markets when tariffs are increased or changed. So many of those major markets that you mentioned have been depressed significantly the last say four to six weeks.

Frederica Freyberg:

Which area for Wisconsin farmers or producers is most hurt?

Jim Holte:

I would say it’s had the most immediate impact on our dairy industry. And the reason that is is because dairy farmers produce a very fragile product. One that has a short shelf life, and so it needs to be marketed immediately as it leaves the farm or as it’s produced on the farm. And so they’re immediately subjected to those changes in prices. Now, as a soybean farmer myself, yes, I am growing a crop I intend to sell, but I don’t have to sell it today or I don’t have to sell it next week. So I have maybe a little more opportunity to look for some better opportunities in the future pricing of that product.

Frederica Freyberg:

I know that the president announced this $12 billion kind of bailout for farmers. Will that still apply, in your understanding?

Jim Holte:

Well, we’re waiting for details again on that, and what I do know is that the administration has announced three different areas they were spending those funds in. One would be some direct payments to farmers. One would be some additional food purchases that then would be distributed to food feeding programs. And the third one would be attempts to help in the marketing and in the sale of U.S. products across the world in different scenarios. So how that’s going to be divided up or how much would really impact would have is yet to be seen.

Frederica Freyberg:

I know that not everyone is onboard with that $12 billion. What’s your reaction to it?

Jim Holte:

As a farmer and talking to a number of my colleagues, I would say that in the short soundbite, we’d rather have trade than aid. We would much rather go about our daily work of producing food for this country and this world and sell it to this country and this world and have government stay off to the sideline. We know that’s not 100% realistic, so this current situation where farms are really struggling with prices, this program can offer some assistance. We have to keep in mind that it’s temporary and it’s probably relatively minor. But it’s a positive signal, but there’s other positive signals we see, too, as far as increased attention towards bilateral trade agreements in multiple places across the world. And that’s where we’d really like to pin our future.

Frederica Freyberg:

You spoke to this a little bit earlier, but what kind of uncertainty does all of this create?

Jim Holte:

Well, when you have a product that’s impacted by supply and demand and suddenly the demand changes and in this case reduces, it has a very immediate and direct price effect on those futures markets. So it takes away some of the light at the end of the tunnel for making a reasonable profit. An example. When this action started taking place, tariffs, dairy markets, the futures in dairy markets and they’re traded for every month going forward probably dropped by close to a dollar by hundredweight. And that drop was from a market that was already challenging farmers a great deal. So it took away some of the optimism, some of the light at the end of the tunnel for some improvement there. Likewise in corn and soybean and pork markets, those markets all reacted negatively as well, which takes away some of the opportunity to have a good business year.

Frederica Freyberg:

So you’re the president of the Farm Bureau, but what are individual farmers telling you?

Jim Holte:

They’re concerned. They’re concerned about their financial future, really. With prices as low as they currently are — and I’d remind your viewers that farm income has been dropping for five consecutive years. Now, it started out at a strong level, but those continued drops year by year really cause you to question why am I doing this, why — what financial future is there for me and my family, my children. And those things are very, very emotional. And so while we understand the need for trade discussions and trade improvements, it’s a difficult time for farmers to work through this process.

Frederica Freyberg:

Absolutely. Jim Holte, thanks very much for joining us to talk about it.

Jim Holte:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

From tariffs to business inside the state, some members of the legislature are looking to move ahead with the $100 million tax incentive package to keep Kimberly-Clark from shuttering one of its two factories in the Fox Valley. The company reached an agreement with the local steelworkers union earlier this week and says it will use a state incentive package to keep its Fox Crossing plant open. Earlier this year, an incentive package passed the state Assembly but may receive pushback in the Senate, where two GOP senators are indicating they may not support it.

Looking ahead to the August 14th primary election and another in our one-on-one interviews with candidates running for governor. Tonight we talk with Democrat Josh Pade. He’s a Kenosha native and attorney. He studied law in Boston and worked in Washington D.C. Pade also has volunteered on a variety of democratic campaigns. Josh Pade joins us now and thanks very much for doing so.

Josh Pade:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

We wanted to ask you right out of the chutes why you should be the choice for democrats?

Josh Pade:

You know, it’s been a pleasure getting in this race and, you know, coming as a newcomer, as an outsider. As I travel around the state of Wisconsin, the more I travel, the more I hear there is such a need for a new chapter in Wisconsin politics. And I think that my candidacy, my story, my message, gives voters the best opportunity to have a fresh start, have a vision that takes Wisconsin beyond, you know, the controversies of today to building a vision for what Wisconsin can look like in the next 10, 20 years. Because we’re at a period of immense change. The global economy, technology, the challenges we face here in Wisconsin with education, the environment. How are we going to grapple with all these things and still get stuck in the sort of divisive politics that have paralyzed our state for too long? I think my candidacy and what I represent is a new start, a new vision for Wisconsin. People are — they’re ready for that.

Frederica Freyberg:

As you know, in the latest Marquette Law School poll, you garnered zero percent of the respondents’ votes. Others with higher poll numbers have dropped out. Will you?

Josh Pade:

No. We’re in this until the primary. There’s another poll that came out yesterday as well. What it shows is that a lot of people are undecided. A lot of people are looking and listening and willing to change. I think it’s — when you look at the broad scope of the polling and where the electorate is, we have a lot of choices and that’s challenging for a voter. And I’m out there working hard across the state giving people an opportunity to learn why I’m the best choice.

Frederica Freyberg:

Why aspire at this juncture to the kind of highest office in the state?

Josh Pade:

So I’ve been tell people I don’t view it as a ranking. I view it as the role and the responsibility and how it matches specific experiences and specific visions. So for me, it’s having lived across the state of Wisconsin. It’s having connection with communities up north, eastern and western Wisconsin and growing up in southeastern Wisconsin, we have to take our values as politicians, what we believe in, and translate that to policies that connect all the communities.

Frederica Freyberg:

Say that the pundits and the pollsters are wrong and you win the primary. Why could you beat Scott Walker?

Josh Pade:

For a number of reasons. One, I think that I provide an alternative to the politics that we have and provide a fresh vision that really provides that contrast that’s not just an opposition to Governor Walker, but a new way forward. And I think that’s why I’m the best person to go against the governor for his third term.

Frederica Freyberg:

On the issues, what in your mind is the most important thing that Wisconsin needs to do toward the economy and jobs?

Josh Pade:

Two big things. One is getting our focus back on education, both K through 12 and higher education, focusing on closing that skills gap. You know, across the state of Wisconsin, the economy overall across the country is doing well. We just found out it grew about 4.1% in the last quarter. But it’s not translating into wage growth, particularly here in Wisconsin. What that means we need to get people into those jobs that are paying well. And we– I’ve focused on trying to think of new– rethinking ways of doing things. New and innovative ways of getting people into those jobs. So that means using technology, partnering with technology companies to understand how one person in one industry could have a set of skills that would be applied to another industry that don’t appear on its face. We’ve seen this happen I think in Colorado. They did a program and they found out that, you know, bank tellers had the skill set that could apply to the cybersecurity industry and were able to mitigate the gap very quickly so people that were losing jobs to automation were able to go into that industry.

Frederica Freyberg:

So this would be kind of a public-private partnership whereby businesses would help effect this?

Josh Pade:

Absolutely.

Frederica Freyberg:

As to Foxconn and now the potential taxpayer dollars for Kimberly-Clark, what’s your position there?

Josh Pade:

We have to step back from corporate welfare. The purpose of economic development dollars should be to grow home-grown businesses. You know, if you look at economic development across the country, what programs work, what don’t work. The ones that provide the highest rate of return for the state are ones where you focus on growing jobs in the state, growing businesses in the state. Foxconn, we have committed to bringing a new industry, a new company to Wisconsin. We need to think about two big things. How do we move forward in a way that maximizes what we’re going to get on our investment? Be strict and hold them accountable on what they’re committing to and the environment. And then, three, ensure once again that workers here in Wisconsin can have the skills to work in advanced manufacturing and get those good-paying jobs and that they can get to those jobs.

Frederica Freyberg:

What if anything do you think Wisconsin should do differently around health care?

Josh Pade:

First thing we need to do is take the federal money, the Medicaid expansion money. If you look at Wisconsin compared to our neighboring state, we’re paying much more for premiums under the Affordable Care Act than they are and that’s because we’re not taking our hard-earning federal tax dollars and using that to make Medicaid affordable. Let’s bring it in. Let’s bring in innovation and understand ways in which we can bring down the cost of health care and expand access. And then let’s also focus on a lot of the other problems that people have to get access to care, like dental care and eye care. Too often in Wisconsin the first time somebody gets dental care is when they go to the emergency room. That often has long-term health effects beyond just dental care. So thinking about that and then also thinking about advancing our infrastructure so we can have more mobile health care providers.

Frederica Freyberg:

Josh Pade, thanks very much.

Josh Pade:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

This week, continuing coverage on the candidates for governor who have recently appeared on “Here & Now.” Marisa Wojcik follows up on republican candidate for govenor Robert Meyer and his statements about racial achievement gaps.

Marisa Wojcik:

Wisconsin’s considerable racial achievement gaps in education are not new. Robert Meyer, the only republican challenger to Scott Walker in the governor’s race, says an external look at our education system is necessary in order to understand the problem.

Robert Meyer:

We have the worst achievement gaps in the United States. It’s because of the outcomes that we’re seeing in Madison and Milwaukee. And DPI organized an internal task force to look at practices that are working. But if we’re in last place in the United States, we should be having an external task force.

Marisa Wojcik:

It’s in reading that Wisconsin has the largest gap in eighth grade scores. 15% of white Wisconsin eighth graders have what’s measured as “below basic” reading scores, meaning they tested so poorly, they fell off the bottom of the scale. And “below basic” is where 52% of black students tested. According to 2017 data from the National Assessment of Educational Progress, commonly referred to as the nation’s report card, many, including candidate Meyer, point to urban districts like Milwaukee public schools, as the driver of these disparities. Recent data from Stanford University has many looking to Chicago to understand how to improve. Data from the Stanford Center for Education Policy Analysis says that third graders in Chicago and Milwaukee had similarly low scores in reading and math. However, by eighth grade, the Chicago students had generally caught up, while Milwaukee students fell further behind. So far, experts haven’t been able to pinpoint where Chicago’s newfound success is coming from. For these and other fast facts, visit wpt.org.

Frederica Freyberg:

Looking ahead to next week, we hope you’ll join us for a special edition of “Here & Now” as we preview the August 14 primary election and the candidates for governor.

Announcer:

Next week, a “Here & Now” primary election special. The incumbent, his republican challenger and eight democrats are all on the ballot in the August 14th primary for governor. Before that election, we bring you a candidate analysis roundtable and a look at the issues in their own words.

Scott Walker:

I’m asking for four more years.

Robert Meyer:

This would have been a long shot four years ago.

Tony Evers:

I’ve actually run things.

Matt Flynn:

There’s a hunger to replace Scott Walker.

Mike McCabe:

Let the people decide.

Mahlon Mitchell:

I want to be productive and pragmatic.

Josh Pade:

A new start, a new vision.

Kelda Roys:

Ready on day one.

Paul Soglin:

I want to defeat Scott Walker.

Kathleen Vinehout:

We have to be the party of the people.

Announcer:

Learn more. Get ready to vote. A “Here & Now” primary election special right here next Friday night from 7 to 8 p.m.

Frederica Freyberg:

And we hope you’ll join us next week for that primary election special. That’s our program for this week. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.

For more information on “Here & Now’s” 2018 election coverage, go to WisconsinVote.org.