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The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:

The state budget stays in the news, including a Governor Evers’ veto that takes a bigger tax bite out of your paycheck. Child tax credit checks are in the mail. How much and what impact will the money have?

Josh Kaul:

I am running for reelection as attorney general of Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

And Attorney General Josh Kaul becomes the incumbent candidate for that office in 2022. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” everything you need to know about the expanded child tax credit. Zac Schultz with analysis on the Governor Evers budget veto that impacts your take-home pay. And an interview with newly-announced incumbent candidate for Attorney General Josh Kaul. It’s “Here & Now” for July 16.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

[applause]

Frederica Freyberg:

When the dust settled after its signing, senior political reporter Zac Schultz took a look at some of the vetoes Governor Tony Evers made to the two-year state budget. Zac’s reporting can be seen on the PBSwisconsin online news page. One of the vetoes has been described as “the craziest thing” by a UW-Madison professor who is a tax and budget policy expert. We’re talking about the Evers veto of language that would update tax withholding tables. Yawn, right? Well, not so fast. Zac Schultz joins us from the Capitol to explain. Zac, thanks a lot for joining us.

Zac Schultz:

My pleasure, Fred.

Frederica Freyberg:

Setting this up, Republicans wrote a budget with billions of dollars in tax cuts. The governor signed it but didn’t sign companion language that would align withholding tables. What is the implication of not aligning the withholding tables?

Zac Schultz:

Well, the implication is if you are receiving a paycheck and your employer takes out your state and federal income tax out with every paycheck, then you won’t see an increase in your take-home pay due to these tax cuts. In theory, this will reduce your tax burden which should lower the amount of tax you pay but you won’t see that until you file your tax return next spring. That’s because it’s up to your employer to decide how much to take out according to these tax withholding table the state sets up. We should mention right off the bat, anyone can adjust their own withholding numbers by changing their W-4 through their employer’s HR system, but in general the employer takes care of it and most people don’t mess with their own W-4s.

Frederica Freyberg:

So why does the tax expert, budget expert call this “the craziest thing” he’s ever seen?

Zac Schultz:

Well, it’s coming from a tax expert, and they believe that everyone should want their money as soon as it’s their money and they shouldn’t let the state hold on to their money for an entire year. These are some of the people that will adjust their own withholding tables anytime something happens that merits that. So for them, it’s crazy to think the state wouldn’t automatically do that to get that money back out to the people right away.

Frederica Freyberg:

So again, the state gets to hold on to the pot of money derived from people being overtaxed, but the goveror points out that no one is going to lose that money because they get a bigger refund come filing time.

Zac Schultz:

That’s absolutely correct. The state’s going to hold on to this money. And the reason why this happened, this isn’t a new thing. The last time the tax withholding tables were adjusted was April of 2014. So more than seven years ago. This isn’t just a Governor Evers’ thing. It’s just this is the most recent tax cut. And the reason why it hasn’t been done is it actually costs quite a bit of money to properly adjust the withholding tables in one time state money because then the state doesn’t have that money, it goes out to workers. Once it’s adjusted, then things are equalized again. Republicans put it in the budget because they say we have all the money. We can budget for that one-time payment of $600 to $700 million right now. Governor Evers vetoed that because he says he wants that money available to be reinvested into education if necessary, especially if the requirements change to capture some of those federal COVID dollars, those ESER dollars coming into public schools. So this has implications that go back to education and much broader than just a withholding table.

Frederica Freyberg:

Much broader than just our paychecks, apparently, under the dome there. But there are two more pieces to this. One, that if Evers signed the tax withholding table language, the tax cuts would be permanent? Is that accurate? And does that play any part in the veto?

Zac Schultz:

Well, that’s one of the theories out there speculated by this UW professor as to why maybe in the conspiracy land that Governor Evers wouldn’t do this, hoping the next Legislature would be Democrats and it would be easier to overturn and repeal these tax cuts and then taxpayers wouldn’t notice the difference. I talked to the secretary of the Department of Admin — Revenue, Peter Barca. He said absolutely that is not true, that the DOR can do this whenever they want. State law requires the Department of Revenue to adjust the withholding tables from time to time. The problem is from time to time, we’re already seven years in and it hasn’t happened and there’s a lot of politics and budgetary issues that go into playing with this, which is why Republicans wanted to do it now. Secretary Barca told me that one of the reasons that Evers didn’t do it now is because he doesn’t like being told to do it now. That state language in the budget said it had to be done by October 1. Secretary Barca says they plan to look at the tables over the course of the next year and adjust those accordingly. He just didn’t want a deadline that actually is coming up pretty quickly in terms of making those adjustments now.

Frederica Freyberg:

Wow. Lots of stuff. But let’s touch on another story you’ve been working on. Namely, $750,000 for a specialty charter school in Vilas County. Governor Evers vetoed this. Why did he do that according to your reporting?

Zac Schultz:

Well, this specialty school was created a few years ago. It’s a charter school as part of a public high school in Minocqua. It has a line item and in the last two budget that’s totaled a $1 million. Governor Evers has vetoed it each time. The governor says he doesn’t want to pick winners and losers in education. He doesn’t like the idea that one school, and it’s a tiny school — they serve 30 students right now — would get all this money when he feels public schools in general haven’t been funded properly. Republicans are saying this is a special school that’s been created to serve students with sensory needs and autism. You’ll have to go to the story and learn all the other issues.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Well, thank you very much for this reporting, Zac. Again, you can look for that reporting on Monday on PBSwisconsin.org and then go to the news page. Zac, thanks again for your work.

Zac Schultz:

My pleasure. Thanks.

Frederica Freyberg:

Speaking of taxes, if your household includes children, you should be seeing some extra money right about now. As part of the American Rescue Plan, payments from the expanded child tax credit started landing in bank accounts late this week. The credit is $3600 a year for children under six years old and $3,000 for six through 17-year-olds. Half of the credit can be claimed when filing income taxes in April. The other half goes into monthly installments through December of this year. So that’s $300 a month for each child under six and $250 for older children. The expanded payments start to phase out at incomes of $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for married couples. The money is a game-changer according to our next guest. Tamarine Cornelius, is research analyst for Kids Forward. Thanks a lot for being here.

Tamarine Cornelius:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

So how is this expanded tax credit a game-changer in terms of helping families of lower incomes?

Tamarine Cornelius:

These payments represent an important investment in Wisconsin’s families and Wisconsin’s kids and therefore in Wisconsin’s future. Raising kids, it’s hard, right? And it’s important. And it’s even harder when families have to struggle to make ends meet. So these payments can help families by helping them pay for rent or, you know, catch up on bills or buying school supplies. Whatever families need to thrive, this payment can contribute to that.

Frederica Freyberg:

In all, how many households will be getting this money from the expanded credit, including those who were not eligible before?

Tamarine Cornelius:

So 1.2 million kids across Wisconsin are going to get this credit. So that’s most kids, are going to get this credit.

Frederica Freyberg:

And —

Tamarine Cornelius:

And the advance payments.

Frederica Freyberg:

And I understand there were something like over 350,000 who would not have been previously eligible who are eligible for this.

Tamarine Cornelius:

Right. So there’s three major and temporary changes to the child tax credit that we’re seeing. One is that half the credit is paid out in advance payments, now through the end of the year. And that’s what you alluded to. That’s one change. That’s what hit people’s bank accounts this week. A second change is that the amount of the credit is increased. So it used to be $2,000 and now for 2021 it’s either $3,000 or $3600, depending on the age of your kid and the number of your children. And then the third change is that it used to be, but temporarily changed, that families with low incomes could not get the full amount of the credit and families with the very lowest incomes couldn’t get the credit at all. So families who could make the most use of it helping to make ends meet or getting diapers for their kids, they were shut out of the credit. And that credit — that sort of deliberate locking people out of credit had some very stark racial implications as well. So about half of black and Hispanic kids who are in families that have traditionally faced barriers to higher-paying jobs and to employment, about half of them couldn’t get the full amount of credit, compared to only about a quarter of white kids. So this last change, where the low income or the lowest-income families can now get the full credit, that is going to affect about 350,000 Wisconsin kids who before couldn’t get the full amount of the credit.

Frederica Freyberg:

All of that said, do families have to do anything to see this credit, see this money?

Tamarine Cornelius:

There is two answers to that. Many families do not, that it just comes automatically. So if you filed taxes for 2019 or for 2020 or you filed to get stimulus payment, then the money should come automatically to your bank account. But that’s not every family. And in many cases that’s not the families who might need it the most. So other families who are not described by those criteria, they are going to need to take action to get it. And they — and they should go to childtaxcredit.gov either to make sure you get your credit or for other information about the credit. That’s kind of the hub for where you can find out about the credit and get connected if that’s what you need to do.

Frederica Freyberg:

Thank you for that information. What about the argument that these credits were expanded to include nonworking households, which could incentivize not working?

Tamarine Cornelius:

You know what this is really about is investing in Wisconsin’s future, right? And that’s important for kids in all families and shouldn’t be tied to whether their parents are working or not. When kids are lifted up out of poverty that brings a whole slew of associated positive benefits that improve lives for everyone. It reduces low birth weight births. It lowers maternal stress. It helps kids attend school. It means lower use of drugs and alcohol down the road. It makes kids more likely to go to college. All of these things are linked to improving assistance to families and to say that because families are having a tough time getting a job we shouldn’t make those investments and we shouldn’t improve the lives of those kids in this way that gives a fantastic return on investment is really short-sighted.

Frederica Freyberg:

We need to leave it there. I had a lot more questions but we leave it there. Tamarine Cornelius, thanks very much.

Tamarine Cornelius:

Thanks.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now to the 2022 election and another incumbent for statewide office announcing a run for re-election. Last month Governor Tony Evers said he’ll run again. This week, Attorney General Josh Kaul announced his plans for re-election. Out of law school, Kaul clerked in the First Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals. He then worked in private practice for a Washington D.C. law firm and as a federal prosecutor in Baltimore. He joined a Madison law firm in 2014 and specialized in voter rights cases. In 2018 Kaul defeated then-incumbent attorney general Brad Schimel. Two Republicans have also announced their election bids in this race. We have reached out to their campaigns to schedule interviews. Tonight we are joined by incumbent Attorney Josh Kaul and thanks very much for being here.

Josh Kaul:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

So in this state of a nearly evenly-split electorate and when you narrowly won your first term against a Republican, why should voters across Wisconsin re-elect you?

Josh Kaul:

Well, my top priority as attorney general has been public safety and I’m really proud of the work we have done to protect Wisconsinites from crime as well as protecting people’s health, our environment and our democracy. As you mentioned, I was a federal prosecutor in one of the most violent cities in the country. I prosecuted murderers, gang members and drug traffickers. And as attorney general, my administration has worked on prioritizing the most serious offenses and DOJ has investigated and prosecuted everything from homicides and arsons to sexual assaults and drug trafficking offenses. We’re also, though, going further. We filed suit against Purdue Pharma for example and the state soon is hopefully going to be recovering about $65 million to help us fight the opioid epidemic. Getting those kind of resources to our communities in the long term are going to make a real difference.

Frederica Freyberg:

What kind of headwinds do you face from partisans on the other side of the aisle with whom you disagree on most everything, from kind of gun control and universal background checks to redistricting reform to environmental protection law and more?

Josh Kaul:

Well, on public safety, you know, the partisan gridlock we’ve seen is a frustration because we could be doing more to make our communities safer if we had more cooperation. You mentioned gun safety measures. Having universal background checks for example would help us keep firearms out of the hands of people who have been convicted of crimes. Reforming our sexual assault kit logs to make sure we have a process in place that will prevent there ever from being another background — backlog, will make our communities safer. Despite the challenges we’ve had from the Legislature, which began with the lame duck legislation before I even took office, we’ve gotten a lot accomplished for the people of Wisconsin and I’m really proud of that record.

Frederica Freyberg:

One of your challenges on that as to your relationship with the

Legislature says that, “you have ignored, attacked and offended the Legislature on so many issues and to such a degree that you cannot successfully work with them.” How do you respond to that?

Josh Kaul:

Well, that’s just not correct. We worked closely with the Legislature on a number of issues and I’m happy to work with anybody where we can make progress for the people of Wisconsin. We just had the budget passed, for example. We were in regular communication with legislators but I’m also willing to stand up to the Legislature if they’re doing something that’s not in the best interest of the people of Wisconsin. I think it’s vital that we have an independent attorney general who is willing to stand up for what’s right and who’s a watchdog for the people of Wisconsin, not somebody who’s just going to do what the Legislature wants them to do.

Frederica Freyberg:

As you’ve enumerated, you have seen some major wins. What would you say are your proudest achievements in your first term to date?

Josh Kaul:

One thing I’m really proud of is the work that we’ve done on the backlog of untested sexual assault kits. During my campaign against Brad Schimel that was a major issue and he rushed to get a number of them tested before the election. When we took office we tested a little over 300 additional kits and finished the testing but we also reviewed every case in which there was a DNA match, went through those. That led to some investigations as well as some prosecutions. There was recently a person arrested with charges in Kenosha County whose DNA had matched to four different sexual assault kits. That’s an alleged serial offender who’s off the street because of that work. That’s one area where I’m incredibly proud of our work but also holding big pharma accountable for their role in the opioid epidemic, withdrawing from the lawsuit challenging the ACA and standing up for our environment and democracy are key accomplishments.

Frederica Freyberg:

With just about a minute left, as the so-called top cop in the state, what is the balance in your mind between public safety and police reform, which you have called for?

Josh Kaul:

I think they go hand in hand. I think criminal justice reform more broadly and public safety go hand in hand because there are so many changes we can make that will both make our communities safer and make our system fairer and build strong community law enforcement relationships. So one great example of that is investing in community policing and violence prevention programs. When we can build strong relationships between law enforcement and the communities in which they work, that’s helpful to public safety because we get better information for law enforcement. We can better identify the most serious offenders but it also builds those kinds of strong relationships that can help advance the goal of stronger relations between the community and law enforcement.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Attorney General Josh Kaul, thanks very much.

Josh Kaul:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

Turning back to the GOP-written state budget, it allotted an increase of $128 million for public schools. However, public school advocates are saying even with that some schools may have to cut spending because the increase doesn’t keep up with the cost of inflation. Republican budget writers say the biggest budget increase to pass through schools as property tax cuts. In this week’s “Noon Wednesday” Marisa Wojcik spoke with Dr. Julie Underwood, former dean of the UW-Madison School of Education and board president for the Wisconsin Alliance for Excellent Schools.

Marisa Wojcik:

You wrote on behalf of the Wisconsin Alliance for Excellent Schools that this year was a “golden opportunity.” Can you explain how?

Julie Underwood:

Well, it was a golden opportunity because in the state of Wisconsin we have a great — a great budget. There was a great budget forecast. And the fiscal bureau actually in the middle of June forecasted even additional revenue, like $4.4 billion of additional revenue that was not expected. So we have more money to spend than we have in the past. This isn’t a day when you look at a budget and think that we need to be austere. It’s a day when you can look at the budget and look at a great revenue forecast and say we need to invest in our future and fix some of the things that we’ve had problems with in the past. And that really is what hasn’t happened. We had a golden opportunity to do right by kids. And the Legislature’s budget just doesn’t do that.

Marisa Wojcik:

Why is raising revenue limits the big story to you?

Julie Underwood:

In the state of Wisconsin we have revenue limits. They’re actually spending limits. And they were set in 1993. The only way that revenue limits or spending limits can go up is if the Legislature does that or if a school district goes to referendum. This particular budget provides a zero dollar increase in the school spending authority, in the revenue limit in their spending authority. It really is a spending limit. And the governor’s proposal was to increase that spending authority by $200 per student. So if you don’t raise the spending authority, no matter how much money from the state you put into the budget, the school districts can’t spend it. So it comes in and they have to send it back out really through property — through a property tax cut. And so it means that there’s no spendable money for schools.

Marisa Wojcik:

So the GOP budget writers said that they also took into account the one-time funding of nearly $2.5 billion from federal pandemic aid that is going to public schools. Does this not fulfill what schools will need, at least until the next budget cycle?

Julie Underwood:

Federal money is earmarked for COVID relief. So you can’t rely on the federal COVID money for your regular expenditures. It’s just not allowed. You can’t provide this for salaries. And most school districts spend — 90% of their money is spent on salaries. And the COVID relief money is COVID relief money, not salary money, not teacher salary money. It’s not intended for that. I’ve heard concerns all over the state. There are about 140 school districts that are not going to get any additional funding and in fact will be cut, their funding will be reduced, state funding will be reduced. That includes 20 of the poorest school districts in the state of Wisconsin. Not just generally large cities. Not urban cities. Not poor districts. Like this problem is across the state. But of course it’s worse for the poor districts. And the problem is regardless of size or geography or political leaning, this — the budget as we have now is not good for school districts.

Marisa Wojcik:

Now, is that what you’re referring to in your letter to the governor as these gaps widening?

Julie Underwood:

Opportunity gaps, academic gaps, achievement gaps. Call it what you may. Funding gaps. Large gaps in our state, particularly children in poverty, rural children, English language learners, children with special needs. These are children who don’t have the opportunities, academic opportunities that children in wealthy communities have. School districts who don’t have broadband. School districts who don’t have sufficient teachers or aides. School districts who have facilities that need assistance, structurally facilities that need assistance. Mental health services, English language learning services. These — the gaps were laid bare and this particular budget is going to make those gaps worse rather than better.

Frederica Freyberg:

You can watch the full-length interview of “Noon Wednesday” and other news content at PBSwisconsin.org/news. Now to the state Capitol where on Tuesday history was in the making. It’s not a statue yet, but this cardboard cutout of Wisconsin’s first black secretary of state, Vel Phillips, gave members of a group deciding on the placement a special sneak preview of things to come. Her statue location on the south side of the capitol was unanimously approved by the capitol subcommittee this week. Phillips lived and worked a life of firsts. She was the first Black woman to graduate from the University of Wisconsin Law School. She was the first Black woman on the Milwaukee Common Council. Phillips was the state’s first Black woman judge. In 1978, she was elected secretary of state, the first female, nonwhite person so elected. Her statue will be a legacy to not only her own work, but the product of ongoing work propelled by the racial justice movement. Phillips’ son was there on Tuesday. He said his mother’s statue will help ensure her legacy.

Michael Damon Phillips:

They look up and see this statue of a person. Who is that? They look and they read a little bit of the inscription. And then they Google her. And then they find out this is a person who has fought for the rights of all Wisconsinites.

Frederica Freyberg:

Full committee approval for the statue is expected this fall. Some of the historical footage you just saw is from a PBS Wisconsin documentary on the life of Vel Phillips. It’s called “Vel Phillips: Dream Big Dreams.” It can be seen online in the PBS Wisconsin video archive. And that is our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

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