Here & Now

Here & Now for January 3, 2020

Announcer:

A PBS Wisconsin original production. The following program is part of our “Here & Now” 2020 election coverage.

Zac Schultz:

Good evening. I’m Zac Schultz filling in for Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” Governor Tony Evers is here to talk about his first year in office and what’s to come in 2020. We begin our three-part series of interviews with candidates for the State Supreme Court. Tonight Incumbent Justice Dan Kelly is here. And we’ll have a report from the north woods about search and rescue teams. It’s “Here & Now” for January 3rd.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Zac Schultz:

2019 was the first time with divided government at the state Capitol in more than a decade and that division seemed to show up in just about every way possible. Joining us now is Governor Tony Evers. Thanks for your time here today.

Tony Evers:

Hi, Zac.

Zac Schultz:

We’ll get to last year and next year in a second. But off the top, with the U.S. military strikes against the top Iranian military official and the possibility of Iranian or terrorist response around the world and here in Wisconsin, have you provided any guidance to Wisconsin National Guard?

Tony Evers:

Well, certainly the National Guard is always prepared. The men and women of the National Guard train on a regular basis. They’re ready to be called up by the president in minute’s notice, so I feel very, very confident that they’ll be ready to take on any challenges put before them. Extraordinary group of people.

Zac Schultz:

Looking back to 2019, should we judge things based on the times you and legislative Republicans disagreed or the times you were able to work together?

Tony Evers:

Oh I’d say either way to look back is a good way to do it because we accomplished things even without us working together. And the budget’s actually a good example of that.

Zac Schultz:

I mean, Assembly Speaker Robin Vos said in his end of the year message they passed a conservative budget. Did you sign a conservative budget?

Tony Evers:

I signed a budget that we set a high bar for them and we made sure we had more resources for our schools and more resources for our roads and actually improved health care in the state of Wisconsin. So we set a very high bar. The Republicans didn’t get quite that far. But I don’t believe that a conservative budget, liberal budget is a good way to frame it. Did we provide some resources and some work that takes our state forward? Yes. And I feel good about that.

Zac Schultz:

The signs of a rocky relationship started back before you even took office, with the passage of the lame duck laws that took away some of your powers. Two of those lawsuits are still pending. How has that impacted you as governor and are they still impacting your ability?

Tony Evers:

Well, it certainly set the wrong stage to get us off to a good start. If that was the goal, that failed miserably. If these lame duck bills were so darn important, they could have done it in the first year of the Walker administration. They decided to do it as he was walking out the door. So clearly it was aimed at Josh Kaul and myself. I think that’s a bad way to start a relationship. But we continue to work hard to make sure that we get as much collaboration and common ground as we can. But I can tell you that was not a good start.

Zac Schultz:

In an election year, the Legislature typically shuts it down sometime in spring. What do you hope to get accomplished yet this year?

Tony Evers:

Well, certainly we have several — there’s several bills that have passed one House or the other that we’re interested in having signed. But overall, we still have to focus on some really important things, like the agricultural crisis in the state. Criminal justice reform, things like that that frankly weren’t addressed appropriately in the last session. So we’re hopeful it will be active. There’s no reason why several months out from an election that suddenly people disappear from Madison. They need to be here working.

Zac Schultz:

In the last few weeks, homeowners around the state have been getting property tax bills, which a lot of them have seen an increase. Your predecessor, Scott Walker, had a very high focus and priority on keeping property tax bills low or stagnant. Do you think people will blame you or your administration for the increases they’re seeing after eight years of no rise?

Tony Evers:

Well, they shouldn’t because the reason that the bills went up, to some extent, a good portion of that is for the last eight years, the Republicans have been starving the public schools and as a result, they had to pass referendum and those referendums are coming due. And essentially that state — it became a state tax instead of a local tax because the locals had to put more money into schools because the Republicans didn’t. So we made an effort this time to make sure there was more resources. But it wasn’t a surprise to me that there was a slight increase, 4, 4.5%. But that primarily came from referendums that were passed.

Zac Schultz:

Republicans are talking about passing a property tax cut this spring. Are you interested in seeing that?

Tony Evers:

Well, they’re looking at using money they don’t know is there. So that’s a problem. I guess from that point of view I’m a fiscal conservative. Doesn’t make much sense to spend money if you don’t have it. So once we get to a point where we know there might be some money available for that purpose. We need to take a look at whether we should put that in a rainy day fund because the rest of state government during a recession will need some help too.

Zac Schultz:

Now the person pushing that the most is Senator Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald who is also running for Congress. Does a race for another office impact what politicians might do while they’re in their old office?

Tony Evers:

Of course. You try to get as many votes as you can in the present situation so you can move on to greener pastures. But that in and of itself isn’t a good reason to say, well, we’re going to spend money we don’t know we have.

Zac Schultz:

You’ve already seen the legislature shut down one special session you’ve called on gun control but you haven’t ruled out doing it again. What would that accomplish?

Tony Evers:

Well, 70% of the people say these are common sense issues so I’m hopeful that we can make some headway here. But I’m not saying that we are or aren’t going to have a special session on gun safety. But it’s still an issue in the state of Wisconsin. People feel strongly about it. Clearly they feel strongly one way or the other. For me, I find it amazing that we just don’t have a vote. Why, why — call them in. Have a vote. It will take half a day at the most and we’ll see where people stand and then people can run for re-election based on that stance. To me, that’s the most fair way of doing it. But the control of the leadership certainly doesn’t allow us to do that.

Zac Schultz:

In that case a special session on gun control would about political pressure, applying pressure to someone before they are about to face the ballot.

Tony Evers:

Yeah, that’s how the system works. If individual legislators can’t stand up and say this is what I believe, whether it’s around gun safety or any other thing, why be there. You know, you need to represent the people that elected you to office and if the people don’t know what you’re running on, and what your stances are, how do they make that decision.

Zac Schultz:

Then in that case, would you consider a special session on Medicaid expansion?

Tony Evers:

That’d be — I would love to do that because I think it could pass. There are several things I think could pass if people were allowed to vote. That’s an issue.

Zac Schultz:

You declared 2019 to be the year of clean drinking water in Wisconsin. Do you need to declare that again 2020 or do you think the legislature is taking PFAS and groundwater contamination seriously?

Tony Evers:

Certainly it’s not done. We’ve made some good headway there, providing some funds in various ways, but this is going to be an ongoing thing. You know our fore — the people that were on this land before we were, our native tribes certainly, have made this an issue for hundreds and hundreds of years. It’s going to take more than one year. But I am not convinced that we are in a good place on this. We need to make sure that we balance business interests and the interests of the water. But at the end of the day, no one wants to drink crappy water. And so if we want to make sure that that doesn’t happen, we need to work together. I’m not sure that that’s happened yet.

Zac Schultz:

You’ve used executive orders extensively your first year in office. Is that a way to get around the Legislature that may not be working with you on the floor?

Tony Evers:

Well, certainly one way to get some things accomplished that I don’t need legislation to do. And so we will continue to do that. There’s no question about that. But at the end of the day, I think the people of Wisconsin expect us to work together, so hopefully we can do that better

Zac Schultz:

Foxconn just announced that their facility is weather-tight and while they’re going to continue construction on the inside, they could be operational maybe by the end of the year. Do they need to renegotiate the contract with the state before they should start operations there?

Tony Evers:

Well, they can continue on, but the bottom line is I continue to believe that the people of Wisconsin expect us, the politicians, to be transparent and have them be — Foxconn be accountable. It’s difficult to do that if the deal that was cut is based on something that doesn’t exist now. It’s just common sense. We need to take a look at that. I believe that at the end of the day we will be able to solve this. But it takes people to come together and seek common ground.

Zac Schultz:

In your campaign for governor you talked about cutting Wisconsin’s prison population. You pledged to close the juvenile correction facility at Lincoln Hills. How close are we to either one of those goals?

Tony Evers:

Well, Lincoln Hills is a ways because we still have things in front of Joint Finance Committee we’re waiting for approval on. And until that happens, it’s difficult to close that, if we don’t have — Lincoln Hills — if we don’t have a place for those kids to go. I think we can get there, but it’s maybe not as soon as we want. Criminal justice reform is a big issue and we need some legislative help to make things happen. We’re doing some things in the Department of Corrections that I think are more fair. We’re working with people that — organizations, lots of faith-based groups that are helping people transition to, out of corrections into the real world. So we’re making some headway. But at the end of the day, we’re going to need some legislative help.

Zac Schultz:

Wisconsin is expected to be a focal point in the presidential election this year. Do you expect to make any endorsements in the democratic primary?

Tony Evers:

No. My goal is to make sure every single one of how many are left at that time are coming through Wisconsin and making their issues known, let people of Wisconsin know who they are.

Zac Schultz:

We could expect to see some increased turnout this fall. Do you expect any of the presidential race to impact down-ballot races for State Senate or Assembly, races that could impact your ability to lead next year?

Tony Evers:

Sure. Absolutely. They’re all connected. We have to make sure we have the ability to have a robust discussion about lots of things in the state of Wisconsin and, frankly, one of those things we’re going to be talking about this year, a lot, is the issue of fair maps and making sure we don’t get to the point where gerrymandering is the — for another ten years. We need fair maps now. Some of the solution to that is to make sure some of those down-ballot issues, those competitions between Republicans and Democrats, are happening in a way that give me the veto power to make fair maps happen.

Zac Schultz:

All right. Governor Evers, thanks for your time today.

Tony Evers:

Thanks a lot, Zac.

Zac Schultz:

There are three candidates running for the Wisconsin Supreme Court this spring. We’ll be talking to all three this month and first up is the incumbent, Justice Daniel Kelly. Justice Kelly was appointed to the bench in 2016 by Governor Scott Walker. Before that, he was in private practice in Waukesha. Justice Kelly, thanks for your time today.

Daniel Kelly:

Thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate it.

Zac Schultz:

You have never faced the voters of Wisconsin before. Why should they elect you to a full ten-year term on the court?

Daniel Kelly:

Well, I appreciate the question. I think the answer lies in my judicial philosophy. And that centers around faithfulness to the Constitution and applying its terms the way it’s been written. Not as we might wish it to be written but as it’s actually adopted and maintained by the people of Wisconsin. There’s a really important reason why that needs to be the case. And it lies in the relationship between the people of Wisconsin, their Constitution and the justices of the Supreme Court. See, when I come to the chambers in the morning, I don’t bring the authority with me that I exercise because it doesn’t belong to me. It belongs to the people. They simply loan it to us. And they do that through their Constitution. They’ve structured that Constitution in a way to accomplish two very important objectives. One of those is securing their freedoms and their liberties, and the second is preserving law and order in their communities. So our role in that is to simply apply the law as it exists. We’re there to exercise the judicial power to apply the law to the case in front of us. People have not asked us to legislate from the bench. They’ve got a Legislature to make their laws. So we don’t make the law. We don’t ignore the law. We don’t play favorites with the law. We simply apply the law with neither fear nor favor for any person or party. When we do that, we’re faithful to the terms of the Constitution. When we’re faithful to the Constitution, we’re faithful to the people of Wisconsin. That preserves their freedoms and liberties and it preserves security in the rule of law in their communities.

Zac Schultz:

You recently decided to recuse yourself from a case that could come before the Supreme Court regarding a conservative group’s effort to force the removal of 230,000 names from the voter registration rolls. Why did you decide to recuse?

Daniel Kelly:

Well, mostly because of what you just said. So the case involves over 200,000 people who will be participating or not participating in the election where my name will be on the ballot. I think it’s important for the people to understand that we do nothing but impartially apply the law without respect to any outside influences or anything that would affect me personally. And I want to make sure that not only is that true in fact, but that the appearances of that are aligned with what is actually factual. And so I decided to recuse myself from that case.

Zac Schultz:

Justices have broad authority on when to recuse, mostly initiated by themselves. Your opponents have said they would like to see tighter rules. Do you think the system works as it is?

Daniel Kelly:

Well, I think the — it has been working for a very long time the way that it is. And while I’m always open to looking at potential amendments, the way that we handle recusals. I think we need to be sure when we do that, when we look at circumstances that might call for a change, that we do it in a way that does not introduce opportunities for political gamesmanship amongst parties or amongst the members of the court. So I’m always open to looking at new proposals, but we need to make sure that it accomplishes the objective of our rules of recusal, which is making sure that we do the job of a justice, that is, impartially applying the law to the case in front of us.

Zac Schultz:

Technically Supreme Court elections are nonpartisan, but recently that’s been largely in name only. The Democratic and Republican parties have been heavily involved in running campaigns, offering support, organizing voters. So why is it wrong for some voters to assume you represent Republicans and your opponents are representing the Democrats in this case?

Daniel Kelly:

I think it’s a category error to suggest that we represent one party or another or their issues. As I mentioned, one of the primary and central aspects of my judicial philosophy is setting aside personal politics and personal beliefs and personal positions and simply applying the law the way it exists. This is the only thing that allows us to preserve our freedoms and our liberties and preserve law and order in our communities, is if we are able to set that aside. So when I work on cases, when I decide cases, when I write opinions, the way I approach it to make sure that those things are put to the side is to apply rigorous logic to the case in front of us. We start with the premises, which are the laws that apply to the case in front of us and then from there we use rigorous logic to work our way down to the conclusion. And if you do that well, if you do it diligently, that will squeeze out any of your personal politics or any of your personal positions or beliefs, because logic doesn’t care about your politics, right? It simply is. And so if we do that well, then we’ll always arrive at a conclusion that is required by the law and not by our personal preferences.

Zac Schultz:

We’ve got about a minute left. Last year during the lame duck session, Republicans in legislation considered moving the date of the Supreme Court election, in theory to get away from the Democratic presidential primary and potential higher turnout among Democrats. They ended up not doing that but how will potential increased Democratic voter turnout impact your election?

Daniel Kelly:

I don’t think it’s going to impact it much at all. The reason for that is this. I don’t — I think people of Wisconsin, regardless of their political party to which subscribe, they want the same thing out of a justice of the Supreme Court. They want a justice who will simply apply the law, with neither fear nor favor for any person or party, who won’t insert their personal beliefs or politics into the decision-making. So whether there’s more Democrats that turn out than Republicans, I don’t think that’s going to matter much because I think they all want basically the same thing: a justice who will just apply the law. And that’s what I’ve been doing since 2016.

Zac Schultz:

Were you hoping that the date would get changed or did you have an opinion on whether the date should remain?

Daniel Kelly:

Well, I try not to peer into the future and see what might occur or not occur based on changes like that because you never know what the consequences might be. So I look at the people of Wisconsin and I have faith that when it comes time for the election, they’re going to do the right thing. They’re going to look for someone who’s going to be faithful to the Constitution. And I think they’re going to do that regardless of whether they’re Democrats or Republicans or independents or whatever other political persuasion they might be. So I invite them all to come out, as much as possible, regardless of the party they’re affiliated with. Come on out in the Supreme Court election. Let us know what you think. And I’ll rest my fate with them.

Zac Schultz:

Justice Kelly, thanks for your time today.

Daniel Kelly:

Thank you.

Zac Schultz:

Every year in Wisconsin dozens of people get lost in the woods or need rescuing on the water. The people called out to look for them train like professionals, but get paid like volunteers. Volunteers like the ones I met on the job in Sawyer County.

On a Sunday afternoon two years ago, Ryan Nadelhoffer got on his ATV at his mom’s house in the village of Winter in Sawyer County and prepared to ride the trails to his home in Hayward 30 miles away.

Amber Smith:

He had his cell phone. He had his GPS. So he said, “I have the trails ready to go, I’m fine.”

Zac Schultz:

Ryan’s sister Amber says the GPS took him on the wrong trail.

Ryan Nadelhoffer:

I typed it on my phone and it took me to the snowmobile trail.

Amber Smith:

His GPS was taking him on the snowmobile trails and not the ATV trails. He got turned around. He lost service. So he picked a route and he drove and pretty soon it turned into no trail and he was hung up on a tree.

Zac Schultz:

Ryan was lost with a dead phone and a stuck ATV.

Ryan Nadelhoffer:

I had my headlights on for a while and then when the battery died, then it was pitch black.

Zac Schultz:

When he didn’t arrive home on time, Ryan’s family called the Sheriff’s Department and they activated the Sawyer County Search and Rescue Team.

Pat Sanchez:

We knew he was on his ATV, so we requested Winter Fire Department to come in and assist with their ATVs.

Zac Schultz:

In a few minutes, they had set up a command post and coordinated a search stretching in all directions.

Amber Smith:

It was amazing to see they have the capacity to do that in such short time. The fact that we were sitting at home with their families, they got the call and they didn’t hesitate or say, “Oh, I got to take care of this first.”

Zac Schultz:

Just after midnight, searchers found Ryan, wet and cold.

Pat Sanchez:

The way the temperature was that night, if the search members wouldn’t have located him, you know, it may have had different outcomes.

Zac Schultz:

By the time searchers were called back, it was Monday and most of them had to go to work in a few hours because in Wisconsin, search and rescue teams are made up of volunteers.

Pat Sanchez:

On any given search we get called out, we may have 35 of our members or we may have four.

Do you want to sign in over here?

Zac Schultz:

Pat Sanchez is the coordinator of Sawyer County’s team, but their search area doesn’t stop at the county line.

Pat Sanchez:

This is kind of the info sheet on the person that we’re looking for.

Zac Schultz:

This summer, they spent multiple days in Ashland County looking for the body of a man who likely drowned in the lake.

Pat Sanchez:

This lake has been searched with two cadaver dogs. Dogs have said something’s here. We don’t know if it’s coming from the lake or coming off the shore into the lake.

Zac Schultz:

Volunteers showed up to search the shoreline and woods.

Pat Sanchez:

Heat index is going to get really high. Make sure you guys stay hydrated. The reason we’re here in Ashland County is we have been doing search and rescue for many years and our reputation has grown that we are a team that will come in. We’re a force multiplier for the local agencies.

Zac Schultz:

The Sawyer County Search and Rescue Team has been called out to 85 searches over the last four years, nearly half of them outside their home territory.

Doug Mrotek:

The success rate is — been appreciated by the surrounding counties.

Zac Schultz:

Sawyer County Sheriff Doug Mrotek says a missing person case is under the jurisdiction of local law enforcement and only they can activate a search. If a neighboring county asks for help, they have to ask him to activate his volunteers.

Doug Mrotek:

We have received quite a few requests from the surrounding counties for our search and rescue team.

Zac Schultz:

But all those searches come at a cost to the volunteers. This search took place on a Thursday.

Pat Sanchez:

This is a vacation day for me and I can tell you that I use up just about all my vacation on searches.

So you take care of yourself, stay hydrated.

Zac Schultz:

Sawyer County has received donations of an old bus and money to buy a trailer and UTV, but individual team members pay for everything else on their own.

Pat Sanchez:

We’re responsible for our own canines, for their veterinarian care, for our own training whether it’s in-state or out-of-state. We have to pay for that out of pocket. When we get in our own vehicles and drive, we’re paying our own gas expenses.

Zac Schultz:

Sheriff Mrotek can’t imagine having to put the search team on his budget.

Doug Mrotek:

That would be a financial challenge on our behalf here.

Zac Schultz:

This is the way search and rescue works statewide. We called every county’s sheriff’s department in the state to ask how they conduct search and rescue operations. Of those that responded, only six counties said they have any kind of in-house search and rescue team. When we asked who they would call if they needed to conduct a search, they pointed to nearby volunteer groups. But no one actually knows the entire list of search and rescue teams.

Kevin Wernet:

Unfortunately, we don’t have a good solid list at this point of all the teams in the state because those are usually local assets.

Zac Schultz:

Kevin Wernet is an exercise and training officer with Wisconsin Emergency Management. If a search requires air support, he can get the right aircraft in the sky.

Kevin Wernet:

We support approximately 30 to 40 missions a year for search and rescue requests.

Zac Schultz:

Wernet says each part of the state presents its own geographical challenges, whether it be woods or water.

Kevin Wernet:

In the southwest, there’s a lot of river rescues. Pat has a lot of forestry-type stuff.

Zac Schultz:

But Wisconsin Emergency Management realized they don’t know where the gaps in coverage may be because volunteer groups don’t report to any single authority.

Kevin Wernet:

About a year ago, we identified a gap and we were working with different teams and different folks around the state. So we’ve been working to expand that list.

Zac Schultz:

Pat Sanchez understands there’s no money for paying search and rescue volunteers, but she would like the same legal protections offered to groups like volunteer firefighters.

Pat Sanchez:

It would be nice if we were treated as equal to fire departments, EMS and law, because we are first responders.

Zac Schultz:

In the meantime, she’ll keep showing up when the call comes in.

Pat Sanchez:

So this is my hobby, but it’s my passion, too. Because I wouldn’t be doing it if I didn’t get something back and what I get back is from all my teammates. We’re family. And knowing that I’ve helped somebody.

Zac Schultz:

And that is something for which Amber Smith and her brother Ryan will be eternally grateful.

Amber Smith:

It’s incredible that the value of life is so important to them. And they don’t get anything in return for it except for that they’ve helped a family.

Zac Schultz:

That’s our program for tonight. Next week, Frederica Freyberg returns and we continue our interviews with primary candidates running for State Supreme Court. Next Friday, January 10, Ed Fallone will be here. Candidate Jill Karofsky will appear on January 17. The primary election is Tuesday, February 18. I’m Zac Schultz. Have a great weekend.

Announcer:

For more “Here & Now” 2020 election coverage, go to pbs.org and click on ‘News.’

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.