Frederica Freyberg:
I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” in with the new. The first week of the Governor Tony Evers’s era. We’ll introduce you to the new state school superintendent, Carolyn Stanford Taylor. U.S. Representatives Gwen Moore and Glenn Grothman are here to speak to the government shutdown and the impact of the shutdown on one Wisconsin Indian Nation. It’s “Here & Now” for January 11.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.

Frederica Freyberg:
A first look tonight at a new administration at the state capitol.

Tony Evers:
In case you may have forgotten, I’m Tony Evers and I’m incredibly proud to be the 46th governor of the great state of Wisconsin.

[cheers and applause]

Frederica Freyberg:
Of course, Governor Evers was not alone in being sworn into office. Mandela Barnes made history, sworn in as the first African-American lieutenant governor in Wisconsin.

Mandela Barnes:
The people of our state have called for change, to end the era of division. So from this day forward, we’ll strive to lead this nation once again.

Frederica Freyberg:
Attorney General Josh Kaul wasted no time making his first words about the legislature’s lame duck session and its effects.

Josh Kaul:
That action, unprecedented in Wisconsin, and designed to hinder our ability to do the jobs that the voters elected us to do will have an impact. But I want to make clear that irrespective of the action taken by the lame duck legislature, the priorities of the Wisconsin Department of Justice are changing.

Frederica Freyberg:
Kaul said the agency would lead on public safety and environmental protection and called for universal background checks for firearm purchases.
Democratic Secretary of State Doug La Follette and Treasurer Sarah Godlewski were also sworn in and newly-appointed Superintendent of Public Instruction, Carolyn Stanford Taylor, was recognized at the inauguration. She joins us later in the program. As for the lame duck session, late this week a coalition of groups, including the League of Women Voters, Disability Rights Wisconsin and Black Leaders Organizing for Communities filed suit in Dane County circuit court asking to void the laws and the 82 appointments enacted during the extraordinary session that clipped some authority from the governor and attorney general. Governor Evers will be dealing with Republican majorities in the legislature. And members say it could take a while for both side to figure out how to work together. “Here & Now” reporter Zac Schultz explains.

Pat Roggensack:
I, who have been elected to the office of state senator

Zac Schultz:
As the Senate and Assembly swore in their newly-elected members Monday, it would be easy to think things were the same as they’ve been the last eight years. After all, Republicans retain solid majorities in both chambers.

Tony Evers:
I, Tony Evers

Zac Schultz:
But with Tony Evers as governor, the new reality is divided government and the vast majority of the legislature is trying to figure out what that will mean.

Scott Fitzgerald:
Just trying to get people to anticipate how much it slows down the process.

Zac Schultz:
Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald is one of just seven Republicans in the Senate who was in office in 2007, the last time the parties had to share power.

Scott Fitzgerald:
But I have run into members already where they said to me, “Hey, I got a bill I want to bring out.” And I say, “Well, go back and think about it, because it’s never going to become law.” So do you want to put the rest of the members of that caucus through that cut or not.

Zac Schultz:
Most Republicans were voted in during the Scott Walker era and have never needed Democratic support for a bill, including members of leadership, like Assembly Majority Leader Jim Steineke.

Jim Steineke:
We don’t know what expectations are going to be you know, because it’s new for a lot of us.

Zac Schultz:
Only eight of 63 Republicans in the Assembly remember the threat of the veto pen, which is why they expect their first bill to be a bipartisan effort to protect pre-existing conditions.

Jim Steineke:
We’re going to have to figure out what the lay of the land is going to be but I think one of the issues that’s going to be first out of the gate is protecting pre-existing conditions and making sure people are covered in case they have those pre-existing conditions.

Zac Schultz:
A similar bill passed the Assembly in the last session, but died in the Senate. And Senator Fitzgerald says they need to include Democratic input this time around.

Scott Fitzgerald:
But I don’t want all the Democrats in the state Senate to vote against it this time, so I would think you would want to work on something that, again, would be bipartisan. So yeah.

Jon Erpenbach:
It’s been a while, hasn’t it?

Zac Schultz:
Jon Erpenbach is one of 14 Democrats in the entire legislature that have dealt with divided government. He’s hoping it means moderates will have more influence.

Jon Erpenbach:
I think the middle may very much matter. The middle may matter in passing budgets out of both houses. It may matter very much so in passing even a budget out of the Joint Committee on Finance. The middle is going to have a lot of say in what will be done here.

Frederica Freyberg:
That was Zac Schultz reporting. Governor Tony Evers left his post as state public school’s chief to become governor. Tonight we introduce you to his appointee in that position, State Superintendent of Public Instruction Carolyn Stanford Taylor. Taylor has served the past 17 years as the assistant state superintendent for the Division of Learning Support. She has an education degree from UW-Madison, was a classroom teacher and principal in the Madison School District and served as president of the local teachers union. Superintendent Stanford Taylor joins us now. Thanks very much for being here.

Carolyn Stanford Taylor:
Thank you for inviting me.

Frederica Freyberg:
Congratulations on your appointment.

Carolyn Stanford Taylor:
Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
So what will be your priority in this position now leading Wisconsin schools?

Carolyn Stanford Taylor:
So we’re going to focus on closing gaps. Our agenda will remain equity. I was a part of setting that agenda, as you mentioned. I’ve been at the department for 17 and a half years. And so that work is my passion. We will look at how we can address the gaps in Wisconsin, because we know that Wisconsin as a state really does well in terms of graduation and attendance rates. But when we start to desegregate the data, there are subpopulations that are not doing as well.

Frederica Freyberg:
Yeah. Because those achievement gaps, particularly between black and white students, are kind of intractable. This has been a problem for year after year after year.

Carolyn Stanford Taylor:
Yes. And while we’ve been doing some work, I’m encouraged by this new budget or the budget that we’ve submitted and hopeful that we will receive those dollars to do additional work, because we know that early childhood is really important. And we want to start on the preventive end to kind of front-load dollars, because we want to avoid the end result, which could be incarceration. So if we start to look at early childhood, invest in our 4K programs, 3K programs for our urban districts, look at afterschool programming for our students, some of the mental health work that needs to be done in schools, additional resources like counselors, psychologists, social workers to help those schools that have been under-resourced to finally kind of make a dent in that.

Frederica Freyberg:
The Governor Evers’ budget calls overall, over two years, for $1.4 billion.

Carolyn Stanford Taylor:
Yes.

Frederica Freyberg:
And then there are obviously large sums of money in these areas of which you speak, like mental health.

Carolyn Stanford Taylor:
Yes.

Frederica Freyberg:
And also special education, $600 million. Do you expect that number — that’s a big number — to be a heavy lift in the budget session?

Carolyn Stanford Taylor:
I would hope. Our governor has said he’s going to reach across the aisle. I think there are people of goodwill in the legislature who are looking to make a difference for our children and our families. They’ve heard over the years the needs. Needs expressed by us, needs expressed by families, communities, advocacy organizations. So the needs have been there. So to me now’s the time to do the right thing.

Frederica Freyberg:
Has it been a situation in years past, in sessions past, that there haven’t been the resources to address those needs, particularly when it comes to achievement gaps?

Carolyn Stanford Taylor:
I think the resources are there. It’s a matter of us prioritizing education. There are always going to be needs, but what we’re finding is that the needs in our schools continue to increase. And so at some point we’re going to have to stop and really start to look at prioritizing education and fund some of those things that are so sorely needed in our schools.

Frederica Freyberg:
And that includes, as you were suggesting, this early childhood education, 3K. Would that be in the state’s largest school districts where some of these gaps are the worst?

Carolyn Stanford Taylor:
Yes. That’s what we’re proposing for 3K. And of course 4K is in most of our school districts. But we’re talking about extending that to full day 4K because we know that a lot of our children come from environments where they’re not hearing language. They’re not in environments where they’re learning social skills. And so they start out with a deficit.

Frederica Freyberg:
We’ve been doing some reporting on trauma.

Carolyn Stanford Taylor:
Yes.

Frederica Freyberg:
In children. And what kind of provisions are there in this budget and in your priorities for addressing that among students, particularly perhaps in some of, again, the state’s largest school districts?

Carolyn Stanford Taylor:
So that’s the exciting thing about the budget and what that might assist us in doing. We’ve been doing some of the work. We’ve had some pilots out there, where we’ve gotten grant dollars and we’ve given those to certain districts to work on trauma-informed schools and classrooms, to look at the ACES work that was done. And you probably remember that First Lady Tonette had an initiative called “Fostering Futures” and that was around trauma. We did some collaborative work around that. So that’s in the work. We’ve come up with some impact for those areas that have gotten some of those grants that we’re hoping to use for other districts and schools as an example of how they can use those dollars to outreach and do work around trauma.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. Superintendent Stanford Taylor, thanks very much.

Carolyn Stanford Taylor:
You’re welcome. Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
From Wisconsin to Washington D.C. where the partial government shutdown is now into its 21st day. Nearly 3,000 federal employees in Wisconsin are either furloughed or working without pay during the shutdown. This includes Coast Guard staff, air traffic controllers, USDA staff and TSA at Wisconsin airports. Tribal nations in Wisconsin are also feeling the pain. The shutdown means the federal government has stopped funding what’s obligated under treaty rights. Marisa Wojcik reports from Shawano, where one tribe is already short more than $1 million.

Shannon Holsey:
Certainly we are monitoring this closely.

Marisa Wojcik:
Shannon Holsey is the president of the Stockbridge-Munsee Band of Mohican Indians located on 22,000 acres in Shawano County, Wisconsin. Her office has been fielding questions from the community.

Shannon Holsey:
We’ve gotten calls asking how concerned they should be with regards to the services that are provided.

Marisa Wojcik:
Like any government, community services including health care, education, public safety and care for the elderly are all supported by the tribe. Most tribal nations receive federal funding budgeted through Congress annually.

Shannon Holsey:
The funds that we received are through trust and treaty responsibilities. They’re not aid.

Marisa Wojcik:
With the government shutdown, these funds are no longer coming into the community.

Andrew Miller:
I can say that we’re starting to feel the impact already.

Marisa Wojcik:
Andrew Miller is the director of the community health clinic.

Andrew Miller:
IHS, Indian Health Service provides funds to allow us to run this clinic. These are not handouts, if you will. These are requirements per those treaties. Right now we serve about 2,800 patients. Of those patients, about one-third are elderly, who rely heavily on our services.

Marisa Wojcik:
Even before the shutdown, the Tribal Nation has been offsetting costs from their own pocket.

Andrew Miller:
We started out underfunded. IHS has estimated that we’re only funded about 40% of our need to provide medical services to our population.

Marisa Wojcik:
The Stockbridge-Munsee community supports more than just its native citizens.

Shannon Holsey:
As the largest employer in Shawano County, we recognize the overwhelming need of the citizens. We don’t just live on a Native American reservation. We contribute to a broader extent our community.

Paige Lehman:
I try to be friendly to everybody and wave.

Marisa Wojcik:
Officer Paige Lehman is non-native. She’s cross deputized as a tribal officer and Shawano County sheriff deputy.

Paige Lehman:
We basically patrol two different areas of the whole Shawano County. I think for a long time, we actually had a Shawano patch on one side and Stockbridge on the other.

Marisa Wojcik:
Even though she serves all of Shawano County, she’s employed by the tribe.

Shannon Holsey:
We’re hoping that it never has to get to the point where we’re going to have to furlough people.

Paige Lehman:
I like working here and I hope that I never have to leave for something like that, but you never know.

Donald Trump:
My fellow Americans…

Marisa Wojcik:
On Tuesday, President Donald Trump made his first address from the Oval Office.

Donald Trump:
There is a growing, humanitarian and security crisis at our southern border.

Marisa Wojcik:
Speaking as the government shutdown over the border wall with Mexico dragged on. A shutdown that leaves Tribal Nations severely shorted on the U.S. government’s obligations, hatched long ago in treaty agreements.

Shannon Holsey:
We gave up a great deal. A lot was lost in that. You give up a great deal. It’s not just land. We’re caught up in this unrelated DC politics over a border war. The president and Congress need to really, immediately open the government. We’re talking about human capital. We’re talking about people and the effect that it has on their lives.

Frederica Freyberg:
That was Marisa Wojcik reporting. At week’s end, a southern border wall continues to be the barrier between Congress and the White House to end the partial shutdown. A shutdown that went prime time this week. President Trump continued his appeal for a border wall from the Oval Office on national TV Tuesday night. We hear now from Fourth District Representative Democrat Gwen Moore. She calls the president’s repeated request for a border wall “tantrums” that have forced the nation into political and economic chaos. Congresswoman Moore joins us now from Washington.

Gwen Moore:
Thanks for having me, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:
You’re welcome. Thanks for being here. Now the House has been the midst of passing bills to fund agencies. How are those bills being received by the Senate?

Gwen Moore:
Well, that’s the problem. They’re not being received by the Senate. I mean, we’re — the Congress, including the Senate and the House, are coequal branches of government with the Supreme Court and with the president. And the only power vested in us is to actually pass these bills, send them to the president’s desk and then he can dispose of them in the way that he sees fit. He can either sign them or veto them. But we’re exercising our power of the purse to fund the government and get the government open.

Frederica Freyberg:
Meanwhile, what’s your reaction to diverting disaster aid to fund the wall?

Gwen Moore:
It just really speaks to the dysfunction of this decision. You know, to determine that building a wall, which is supported by none of the nine Congressional members whose districts border Mexico, including Will Hurd, a Republican, former CIA operative. It’s just bizarre. That’s the only adjective I can think of.

Frederica Freyberg:
Has this just not become a political game of chicken, with livelihoods caught in the middle now?

Gwen Moore:
No. It’s not a political game. This is the legislative process. This bill was negotiated when I was in the minority in the House of Representatives. It was negotiated in the House of Representatives. It was passed in the United States Senate. Republicans were in charge. And from my recollection, it was passed by voice vote, which meant that 100 United States Senators agreed on this bill. Paul Ryan, then Speaker of the House, was about to put it on the floor. And Rush Limbaugh — and if they’re any games, it’s from those outsiders. He was about to put it on the bill. It had been agreed upon as this is the way we operate. Paul Ryan was seen sprinting to the White House and then wouldn’t put it on the floor without the border wall language in Appropriations.

Frederica Freyberg:
Yeah. At this point, why won’t Dems relent on the wall in order to reopen the government?

Gwen Moore:
Well, Frederica, just let me say it wouldn’t necessarily reopen the government. First of all, this $5.7 billion bill is only a down payment on a wall. I’ve heard estimates. The lowest estimate I’ve heard for such a wall, is about $30 billion and probably closer to a $60 billion wall. Who is to say that once we relent, to use your terms, and provide the $5.7 billion, that next month he won’t blackmail us into giving him something else that he wants? This is not — we had a revolution over this, Frederica. We don’t have a king. We have a guy over there in the White House, maybe someday a woman, but right now we have some guy over in the White House who’s supposed to receive bills from Congress and either sign them or veto them. And he short-circuited the process. I’m coming in here every single day voting to open the federal government up. And Mitch McConnell, who had 100 votes, 100 out of 100, do the math, votes for this very same bill, won’t put it on the floor. He is the one who’s abdicating his responsibilities to citizens and to workers, to small businesses, to large swaths of people who are being affected by this shutdown. He’s the one, yes.

Frederica Freyberg:
You were asking constituents for their shutdown stories. What have you heard?

Gwen Moore:
Oh, my god. I have heard so many shutdown stories. Things that I hadn’t even thought about. I mean, number one, these employees are not making federal contributions toward their retirement when they don’t receive a paycheck. And so therefore, they are not getting the federal share of those retirement funds. And the way that they could be treated if they are withdrawing, taking early — getting penalties for early withdrawals. Right in Wisconsin, we hear about Sheila. Sheila, unfortunately the end of last year, was in a car accident. Thank god she was okay. She took the sick time that she was — to which she was entitled, took a little extra time for healing, thinking that, you know, I could get back to work with the IRS. And now is furloughed. And so even if she is called back, she’ll be called back with no reserve savings, because she used them up for her own personal needs, medical needs, and now is going to have to figure out how to get gas to get to work for her car, to pay her car note, without any savings.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. Congresswoman Moore, we need to leave it there. Thanks very much for joining us.

Gwen Moore:
Nice to have you. Happy New Year.

Frederica Freyberg:
We move across the aisle now to speak to Sixth District Republican Congressman Glenn Grothman who joins us by phone. Thanks a lot for doing so.

Glenn Grothman:
Glad to be on the show as always. We’re doing this from an airplane at the Washington airport. So we’ll see how it works out.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. We’ll be mindful of that. So now this week there were some Appropriations bills on the floor of the House and you voted against those. Why is that?

Glenn Grothman:
Well, first of all, they’re too free-spending. In the past, I have sometimes voted for bills I thought were excessive spending yet there was a very important thing to get done and we have previously voted for bills with funding for a wall in there even though they were more free-spending than I wanted. But now that that was removed, I don’t think these bills are appropriate. Adding too much to the federal debt.

Frederica Freyberg:
Are you opposed then to ending the government shutdown?

Glenn Grothman:
I think we should end the government shutdown. I voted for a bill that would have ended the government shutdown in December. Unfortunately, did not have enough votes in the Senate to pass.

Frederica Freyberg:
So you voted also against a bill to pay furloughed workers back pay. Why?

Glenn Grothman:
Well, I have no problem with paying people who are working. And I am one of 12 cosponsors of a bill to pay people immediately who are working. But this shutdown could go on for six months. Is it appropriate to pay somebody six months for not working? I mean maybe eventually we can reach some sort of compromise to pay them something to tide them over, but making as much not working as you do working seems a little ridiculous. That’s why we’re $22 trillion in debt.

Frederica Freyberg:
Not their fault they’re not working.

Glenn Grothman:
Well, that’s true of anybody who’s not working, isn’t it? If you get laid off from public radio or public television, it’s not your fault you got laid off. But I don’t think the government steps in and pays you your full salary, either.

Frederica Freyberg:
Ok, so there’s about 3,000 people in Wisconsin who are on furlough or working, working without pay. What do you say to them?

Glenn Grothman:
I am, like I said, one of only 12 Congressmen who’s a cosponsor of a bill drafted by Mo Brooks of Alabama to pay those people immediately. The bill we voted on today was a little ridiculous. It did nothing to immediately pay the people who are working, but it guaranteed eventual full pay for people who aren’t working. It puts you in a much better position not to work than to work.

Frederica Freyberg:
Well, could you live without your paycheck or are you doing what some Congress people are doing, which is donating them?

Glenn Grothman:
We have said right now that I will not — they should withhold my check for now. The degree at which I give to charity, I’m thinking about it right now. In the past I’ve given money to charity but we’ll see what I give to charity. But right now I’m having my paycheck withheld, just like the other employees.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. You introduced a bill called the Peoples Border Wall Fund Act, basically a crowd source funding effort, allowing citizens to directly contribute to the wall. What has been the reaction to that?

Glenn Grothman:
Overwhelmingly positive. I think people know we have a crisis at the border. Over 90% of the heroin in this country comes in over the border. Over 2,000 people have been charged in Texas alone with homicide who are here illegally. So we have a crisis that has to be dealt with. I know Donald Trump has been very patient. He’s been president for over two years without insisting this be an Appropriation bill. But I think largely for partisan reasons, a given number of politicians are not voting for this wall. And it’s a shame. You know, the amount of money that Donald Trump is asking for this wall is less than one-seventh of what we spend on foreign aid every year. Think about that. Nobody has a problem spending all this money on foreign aid. But one-seventh amount for the wall, “Oh, I don’t see a crisis.”

Frederica Freyberg:
So you see this more of a criminal type crisis than a crisis of asylum seekers trying to gain safety by being given asylum in the U.S.?

Glenn Grothman:
Oh, it’s a crisis for the entire immigration program. Donald Trump will continue to allow 700,000 new people to be sworn in as citizens every year. He’s just saying you got to wait in line to be one of the 700,000. It’s unfortunate that so many people feel that people who are breaking the law to cross the border should jump in ahead of those who are patiently waiting and doing it right.

Frederica Freyberg:
What’s your reaction to the declaration of a national emergency over the wall and shutdown? Would you be in favor of that?

Glenn Grothman:
I hope we don’t have to go there. I mean obviously we do have a national emergency between the heroin, the crime, people flooding over getting free health care, free education. Given, like I said, we’re $22 trillion in debt, there’s no question we have a national emergency here. But I hope it doesn’t come down to that.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. You know that fact checkers say that the heroin comes through the legal ports of entry, not kind of over the border where there isn’t a wall yet.

Glenn Grothman:
There are some drugs coming over the border as well. And, you know, to me that’s a crisis. I don’t know why we wouldn’t build a wall. Plus the wall sends a message. Right now with so many American politicians for sanctuary cities, with the governor of California coming out for Medicaid for illegal immigrants, same thing with the mayor in New York, I can understand why people south of the border begin to think our immigration laws don’t mean anything.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right. We need to leave it there. Congressman Glenn Grothman, thanks very much for making the time.

Glenn Grothman:
Glad to be on the show as always.

Frederica Freyberg:
That’s our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.