Here & Now

Here & Now for February 21, 2020

Announcer:

A PBS Wisconsin original production. The following program is part of our “Here & Now” 2020 election coverage.

Frederica Freyberg:

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” we’ll interview a former Wisconsin U.S. attorney who signed a letter together with more than 2,000 other Department of Justice officials asking U.S. Attorney General Bill Barr to resign. After that we learn about plans for a tribal youth treatment center to help children in recovery for addiction. Wisconsin Public Radio’s Laurel White joins us from the State Capitol for insight on Assembly action this week. Madison Mayor Satya Rhodes-Conway is here to share her priorities for a complete census count. It’s “Here & Now” for February 21.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

First up tonight, a quick recap of Wisconsin primary election results. On Tuesday, state voters narrowed the three-person field running for the state Supreme Court down to two. Incumbent Justice Daniel Kelly and Dane County Circuit Court Judge Jill Karofsky will face off in the general election for that race on April 7. And in Wisconsin’s 7th Congressional District, Republican Tom Tiffany will face Democrat Tricia Zunker on May 12. Now to national political news with a Wisconsin connection. A federal judge late this week sentenced an associate of President Donald Trump on obstruction and perjury charges related to the Russian election interference investigation. The judge sentenced Roger Stone to three years and four months in prison in a case that saw the president publically interfere, calling sentencing recommendations by justice department attorneys of seven to nine years “a horrible and very unfair situation.” After the president’s tweets and comments, Attorney General William Barr overruled his own prosecutors who then quit the case. More than 2,000 former federal prosecutors and U.S. attorneys have signed on to a letter demanding that William Barr resign saying they strongly condemn his interference in the fair administration of justice. Among those signing on to the call for Barr’s resignation, former U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Wisconsin John Vaudreuil. He joins us now. Thanks very much for being here.

John Vaudreuil:

Thank you Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

So I know that President Barack Obama placed you as U.S. Attorney. Is this a situation where your calls and the calls of the others for William Barr to resign, is this political?

John Vaudreuil:

Speaking for me, absolutely not. I signed because I believe we’re a nation of laws, rule of law. And the way prosecutors do that is by making decisions based on the facts, not based on favor, not based on fear, not based on who somebody is or who somebody knows. And I think the decisions in this case and the public statements have damaged that trust with the public.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, you know William Barr. Did this surprise you?

John Vaudreuil:

I met him once and I knew him. I worked under him when he was the attorney general under President Bush and when he was appointed — excuse me, attorney general by President Trump. I thought good. He’s a good lawyer. And I must admit his behavior since he’s become attorney general has surprised me continuously.

Frederica Freyberg:

Why doesn’t, though, a U.S. attorney general have the authority to tell his attorneys what to do in a case?

John Vaudreuil:

Excellent question. And it’s a different situation. He is the boss of the U.S. attorneys. There are cases that you are consulting with the attorney general. You seek approval, terrorism cases, high-level corruption cases like the Stone case. It’s different. And that’s policy. And the president has set policy. Whether it’s President Obama, President Reagan, President Carter, all the presidents I worked for, President Trump. They set policy. But they don’t weigh in on individual cases and put their thumb on the scale of justice. For the attorney general on his own with his own staff to weigh in on a case and discuss it with prosecutors is normal. But to do it, if he did, at the direction of the president is extraordinary.

Frederica Freyberg:

Do you think he did do it at the direction of the president?

John Vaudreuil:

He says he didn’t. I would like to take people — I’m that kind of person from Wisconsin, I take people at their word. The timing of it is such that I think people could presume that he did do it with the president’s direction.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is your expectation that the attorney general will heed your call and resign?

John Vaudreuil:

I think very, very slim to none. I think he is very comfortable. He’s made his public statements to the president. And perhaps that’s enough. Perhaps that puts the Justice Department back on track. I think they have damaged that trust we’re supposed to build with the public and it will take a long time to rebuild that trust.

Frederica Freyberg:

What do you think should he not step down, which you say is unlikely, will be the response of DOJ employees and U.S. attorneys like yourself?

John Vaudreuil:

I think and I hope — and I know a lot of them. These are good people. And I think if they are called to do something they believe is political, they will object. They will resign if need be. They will report any such conduct to the Office of Professional Responsibility and they will keep the department that they love working for justice.

Frederica Freyberg:

How unprecedented is this whole situation?

John Vaudreuil:

It is — I can speak for the 40 years when I was in the Department of Justice. Republican, Democrat presidents. It is totally unprecedented. Certainly publicly. I don’t know what’s gone on behind-the-scenes now and then. But nothing has ever led me to believe that we were making political decisions and telling the people who you are as a defendant matters. Because it’s not supposed to be who you are that matters. Who you know isn’t supposed to matter. And everything the president said in this case says who you are and who you know matters.

Frederica Freyberg:

What would you have done if this happened while you were U.S. attorney here in Wisconsin?

John Vaudreuil:

I think had I — had we worked it through the recommendation just the way it does. Line attorneys work on the case, discuss it with the boss, the U.S. attorney. Discuss it with DOJ and then make their recommendation. And had I been told to change it and had I believed it was at the direction of the president, I would have resigned.

Frederica Freyberg:

What would be the reaction, do you suppose, if the president pardons Roger Stone?

John Vaudreuil:

I think certainly it’s his right and we can — we can’t quibble over things that the president has the right to do. It’s not against the law. As a decision that smacks at justice, I think there will be a large portion of the public that think, sure, the fix was in. And the process played out. Man was sentenced to prison. But his friend, the president, commuted that sentence or pardons him. I think a lot of people in this country will think the fix is in and that’s what is very saddening.

Frederica Freyberg:

John Vaudreuil, thanks very much.

John Vaudreuil:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

The annual State of the Tribes address at the State Capitol took place this week. In tonight’s closer look, we hear from the chairman of the Forest County Potawatomi community, Ned Daniels.

Ned Daniels:

The success of not only Wisconsin’s Tribal Nations, but for all residents of the state, depend on our resilience to continue to tackle critical issues. We must maintain a sharp focus on improving the lives of those we represent in the new decade as we grapple with the responsibility of addressing the complex changes before us.

Frederica Freyberg:

Daniels spoke namely to the opioid epidemic saying Native communities across Wisconsin have been hit especially hard. But Daniels said he was thankful for recent legislation to address and combat addiction. He also described a youth wellness and treatment center to be located centrally among Native nations in Wisconsin. With more on that, we turn to Shannon Holsey, president of the Stockbridge-Munsee Band of the Mohican Nation. Holsey hatched the idea of an all-Nation’s youth treatment center and joins us from Green Bay. Thanks very much for being here.

Shannon Holsey:

Thanks very much for having me Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

Describe why this youth treatment center is so needed?

Shannon Holsey:

Well, to Chairman Daniels point, it’s imperative because when you think about that, there is nothing unique to that or culturally centric to the need of your people especially as it relates to addiction. This idea was instilled probably 20 years ago. As Tribal Nations we belong to a consortium called the Great Lakes Intertribal Council and 20 years ago, they had the idea that they needed to bring wellness and healing to our communities and especially the most vulnerably affected which would be our youth. We have decided that the designation will be in central Wisconsin primarily, most likely Marathon County and probably in the Wausau area due to the fact that it has accessibility to health care providers, which is sometimes on tribal reservations the most challenging thing, is to provide those necessary resources and find the necessary professionals to bring that healing to our nations.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now I understand gaming compact money back in 2017 helped pay for the planning of the center and you just met with Governor Evers and Attorney General Kaul. What are they saying about this effort?

Shannon Holsey:

We did. It was under Governor Walker’s administration that we received some money to do a feasibility study and a business plan. Then there was a continuation of those priorities in Governor Evers’ and Attorney General Kaul’s initiatives. Because that hasn’t — that issue doesn’t go away because you elect a new governor. And they’re both passionate. Governor Walker served under the — excuse me, Governor Evers served under Governor Walker’s administration, so he was well aware of this initiative. But I think too, him being in the realm of education, he understood the perils of what that could be and the devastation it brings to not only just the youth in crisis but families and communities. He very much has the pulse on what is happening, as does Attorney General Kaul. We’ve met with him several days ago with regards to this and he spoke of it. And it’s just not a Native American issue, clearly. It’s an issue in the state of Wisconsin. We all recognize that if we don’t bring healing to this generation, we’re going to lose an entire generation of young people to this addiction and it’s going to cause much larger issue.

Frederica Freyberg:

As to the treatment center itself, how will it be different from other youth treatment centers? You know, how will Native Nations’ culture be incorporated?

Shannon Holsey:

Well, it’s deemed to be culturally centric because central to what that is is I understand that treatment centers can sometimes be a very challenging thing for especially a young person, I can imagine. But the fact is is that what we are trying to do is emulate something that is familiar to them to help in the care and something that’s familiar as they return from care into their own communities. We thought what would be best is and what we know best is our culture, our traditions. Those are the things that are imperative to the foundation of the healing of our young people. Of course, it will be combined with western medicine and necessary wrap-around services that we’ll need for the continuation not only for the youth in treatment, but also for the family. So there is going to be an opportunity. My idea or our vision collectively as tribal leaders, and let me say Frederica, it’s not just my idea. It was built around an idea of 11 Nations knowing this is something we need to do for our communities. As Tribal leaders, we have to provide health and wellness to our communities. But if we can’t at the most general sense provide the most vulnerable people, then what good is it that we do and work for if we can’t bring healing to them? So the idea was is that we enjoin our culture and our traditions and something that they’re very familiar with, it will provide them the necessary tools as they go on their healing journey to utilize and go back and revert to those tools as they return to their Tribal Nations and provide that necessary long-term healing and sustainability to their healing.

Frederica Freyberg:

You spoke briefly about how there will be wrap-around services. Is that something central to the kind of treatment approach there?

Shannon Holsey:

Yes. We had looked at various options of how we were going to approach this. So when you asked earlier what uniqueness from a cultural perspective that was going to be, we believe that behavioral health plays a large part in that and that’s not something that you can get in 90 or 120 days. That’s something that has to be addressed at its core and will most likely require long-term treatment — not treatment, but exterior treatment for that young person. But also the family or the guardian that’s tasked with the care of that child. And so, we — it’s about diet. It’s about different things. It’s sort of a mind/body/spiritual approach more holistic in nature.

Frederica Freyberg:

When do you expect to open the doors?

Shannon Holsey:

Well, we are at the next phase. Under the new administration of Governor Walker and the Wisconsin legislation we were fortunate to receive also additional funding to do site designation and architectural renderings. We’re getting very, very close. We’re also pleased to say that we’re closer to finding another partner to join the Stockbridge-Munsee community in facilitating and executing this endeavor.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. President Shannon Holsey, thank you very much and good luck.

Shannon Holsey:

Thank you, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

A flurry to the finish for the Legislature. This week the state Assembly wrapped what’s expected to be its final day for the year. The Senate comes in for one final day in March. Both houses passed and sent to the governor’s desk a $250 million income tax cut. That’s the majority’s use of the newly-projected $620 million budget surplus. Governor Evers wants to use the surplus to lower property taxes and spend more on schools.

Chris Taylor:

It’s hard to believe in 2020, there are 20 individuals who make $30 million and over each and they’ll get $50.4 million in tax breaks. And yet today you all, you all said that you weren’t going to send more money to your public schools. You rejected our governor’s proposal.

John Nygren:

More than anything else, unfortunately, education funding, education has become 100% political. 100% political. No matter what we do on this side of the aisle, is it ever going to be enough?

Frederica Freyberg:

In tonight’s Capitol Insight, we check in with Laurel White on this and other action. Laurel, thanks a lot.

Laurel White:

Absolutely.

Frederica Freyberg:

So the expectation is that Governor Evers will veto this tax cut?

Laurel White:

So that’s kind of the million dollar question right now. We really don’t know. We know the governor has been critical of the proposal since it was first rolled out. He obviously had a really different idea for how he wanted to spend that money. But he hasn’t said outright whether he’ll veto it or not so we’re just going to have to keep an eye on it.

Frederica Freyberg:

But it has landed on his desk at this point?

Laurel White:

It is on his desk and he could act on it anytime.

Frederica Freyberg:

What do Republican leaders say about if or when they would take up additional school aid as the governor had called for?

Laurel White:

So Republicans are saying that kind of the appropriate time to take out more school aid would be during the next state budget process, which of course starts next year. They point out that they made a big investment in education in the current state budget, so they kind of point to that as a win and say, hey, we can talk about education more in the future.

Frederica Freyberg:

That’s kind of a long time to wait, I would imagine, for Governor Evers. But how big of a tax cut did just pass?

Laurel White:

So the income tax cut that passed is about $247 million. It’s going to save, on average, $106 per income tax filer in Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, there are other tax cuts that came by way of a farm aid package that incorporated some of what Evers asked for; is that right?

Laurel White:

That’s right. So that was part of a package of bills aimed at supporting the dairy industry in Wisconsin. Those tax proposals had to do with farmers deducting their health insurance costs from their income tax bills and a little bit of a tweak to property taxes related to agricultural buildings on their property. So a couple little tax elements to a really big, broad package of bills about dairy in Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

I understand that won’t get a Senate vote until next month?

Laurel White:

That’s right. So both the Senate and Assembly were in this week, but the Senate isn’t expected to come back and vote on any more bills until sometime in March.

Frederica Freyberg:

What have you been hearing about whether or not the Senate would be expected to actually pass that particular bill? Or package of bills?

Laurel White:

So we don’t know for sure. We know obviously that the Senate has a history of sometimes departing from what the Assembly has done. Obviously the Assembly is done for the year now. So any changes that the Senate makes would compromise the future of those bills, not get them in the governor’s desk. So it’s a little bit uncertain right now. They did pass, though. I think it’s important to note, with broad bipartisan support in the Assembly.

Frederica Freyberg:

Exactly. Now, here’s an item I understand not moving forward. The sexual assault kit backlog bills which got amended to include what Democrats were calling “poison pills,” why isn’t that kind of rape kit backlog bill bipartisan?

Laurel White:

There was a bipartisan bill that passed the Senate. The problem there, a little bit of the hang up, is the Assembly amended the bill to include those so-called poison pills to Democrats. One of those provisions would require individuals accused of sexual assault who were in the country illegally to be reported to federal immigration officials. Another has to do with school vouchers, private school vouchers and eligibility of sexual assault victims. They would be eligible for the state voucher program if they are victims of sexual assault regardless of previous eligibility. So that’s what’s come of the Assembly and it’s obviously very different from what’s come out of the Senate.

Frederica Freyberg:

So how is Attorney General Kaul taking this development?

Laurel White:

So Kaul is very frustrated. He had pushed really hard for that bipartisan bill that passed the Senate earlier this year. He was very frustrated with the changes that the Assembly made and said that this proposal is really essential to ensuring that we don’t have a backlog of sexual assault kits like we’ve had in Wisconsin in the past.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, the Assembly snuck in an amended version of a bill to affect PFAS pollutants early this morning. What do you know about where that is headed?

Laurel White:

That was a really late addition. The Assembly passed that bill after midnight this morning. It came out of a long caucus that Republicans held in the wee hours of the morning. We really don’t know where the Senate stands on that because it’s such a new proposal. It’s certainly in question whether the Senate will take that up in March and whether it will be headed to the governor’s desk or not.

Frederica Freyberg:

And that was another one that at least in its original form was bipartisan in nature.

Laurel White:

Mm-hmm. That’s right. There have been a number of bipartisan water quality bills that have passed the Assembly recently. So this is something that lawmakers have been working on, things like PFAS. Things like well contamination. So it will be really interesting to see if the Senate comes together in a similar way.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Well, Wisconsin Public Radio’s Laurel White, we really appreciate you joining us from the Capitol. Thanks.

Laurel White:

Absolutely.

Frederica Freyberg:

By mid-March, households across the U.S. and here in Wisconsin will start getting 2020 Census Bureau information in the mail. The count happens every ten years and helps determine how much federal funding goes to states for things such as schools, hospitals and roads. Results of the census also determine the number of seats each state has in the U.S. House of Representatives and are used to draw legislative districts. Madison Mayor Satya Rhodes-Conway is hoping to fill a shortage of census takers and get a complete count. She joins us now and thanks for being here.

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

It’s my pleasure.

Frederica Freyberg:

I know in recent days you have said that Madison was lagging behind kind of the rest of the state in being able to hire or recruit census takers. How many does Madison need to fill?

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

So we’ve got about 47% of our positions filled right now and what they tell me is that in order to fill the rest, we need somewhere close to 4,000 applicants. That doesn’t mean we need 4,000 people, but we need people to apply and to consider taking the job in order to fill the positions that we need.

Frederica Freyberg:

And yet the census can be filled out and sent back online or mail or over the phone. Why do you need actual bodies to kind of do this count?

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

That’s a really good point. And I do want to emphasize that when people get that letter in the mail, they have lots of options to fill out the census, right. They can go online and do it right there. They can call in and do it over the phone. Or they can wait until somebody comes to their door. And what we see historically is about 20% of people will not fill it out proactively themselves. And so that 20% we need to send people out to knock on doors and say, hey, could you please fill this out? Let’s do it together. You know, one thing that’s important for folks to know is it’s really short. There’s nine questions. If you do it yourself, it takes you maybe ten minutes to finish. So we really want to encourage people to fill it out themselves. But we also really have to have that complete count.

Frederica Freyberg:

There are some barriers to this, though, I understand after reading a Census Bureau study about this. Chief among them that there’s a distrust of government and this is a government form. Also according to this study 10% of people incorrectly believe that the census is used to locate undocumented immigrants. What is the truth to that?

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

I want to be really clear that when people do fill out the census, that data is private. It is not used for law enforcement. It is not used for immigration. I really want to encourage people to, yes, go ahead and fill out the census. This data is not going to be used against you. And in fact, it is going to be used to help your community. As you said at the top, we have many streams of federal funding that rely on census numbers. And in fact if we — for every person that doesn’t fill out the census, we project that we lose about $2,000.

Frederica Freyberg:

How much federal money historically kind of flows through the numbers that the census counts?

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

It’s all across the board, right. So this is anything from tax credits for affordable housing to the free and reduced lunches at schools to direct assistance to small businesses in our communities. So there’s a whole range of types of federal money that count on the census numbers. The other thing that’s important is that it’s not just the sheer numbers of people, but it’s in fact the types of people. So if we have more seniors counted, we get more funding related to senior services. So it’s very important that everybody fill out the census that we have that complete count, so that we can have a really accurate assessment of the needs in our community and then take advantage of as much federal funding as possible.

Frederica Freyberg:

Because how has Madison changed since the last census?

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

Oh, tremendously. You just look at our population growth alone. In the last ten years, we have grown tremendously. And, as we know, in Madison, but also federally, we have a shift in demographics, right? So our age structure is changing. We are seeing a lot more — I don’t want to name a particular generation, but we’re seeing the 20 to 30 folks, that segment of the age structure is growing in Madison. Our community is getting more diverse racially and ethnically, which again is true across the country. So we need to know who’s here in order to be accurate, both for the money but also just to have an accurate sense of who our community is.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what is Madison and Dane County doing to try to ensure an accurate count?

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

So there’s a number of ways we’re working with the community. Right now I want to reemphasize that the most important thing is we need to recruit people to apply for census jobs. Super easy to do. 2020census.gov/jobs. They pay about $22 an hour. They’re very flexible. Its’ limited term, March through July. It can be full-time. It can be part-time. It’s a great thing for a retiree or student or somebody who is working part time to pick up. So that’s the big push right now. We have also partnered with a number of agencies in our community to help us reach out to the populations that are often under-counted and to share the message of how important the census is and how much we need people to contribute to that complete count.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Mayor Rhodes-Conway, thanks very much.

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

It’s my pleasure.

Frederica Freyberg:

That is our program for tonight. Next week, statewide results from the new Marquette Law School poll. Poll Director Charles Franklin will be here. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

Announcer:

For more “Here & Now” 2020 election coverage, go to PBS.org and click on news. Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.