Announcer:
The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:
I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” the last of the crowded field of Democratic candidates for governor. And what happens when the free public access eyes and ears of the state legislature disappears? It’s “Here & Now” for December 19.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:
The Wisconsin version of C-Span has gone dark. WisconsinEye now shows this message on its website saying it is off the air. The private nonprofit service started in 2007, providing live and archived online and cable TV coverage of state government. But money to run the operation ran out. WisconsinEye CEO Jon Henkes joins us now and thanks very much for being here.

Jon Henkes:
My pleasure. Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
So what has been the reaction from the WisconsinEye audience to the fact that it went off the air?

Jon Henkes:
Different audiences have slightly different takes on the reaction. On the positive side, we have seen an outpouring of small gifts made via online, the likes of which we’ve not seen. So in a period of about two weeks, we’ve generated almost $60,000 in gifts ranging from $5 to $1000. That’s been very encouraging. And it says that citizens at large really do care about WisconsinEye’s future. Disappointing to a degree has been — we’ve not heard from those larger donor philanthropist types who are capable of supporting WisconsinEye and we know that they value it. From the perspective of elected officials, they are anxious for WisconsinEye to light up the archive, which can happen very soon, as well as return to full coverage of live events. So there are discussions going on behind the scenes right now. Our credit goes to the elected officials in the legislature and the governor’s office. These are the folks who, over time, different people, but the same bipartisan sentiment, have said unequivocally that an independent approach to state government coverage is the Wisconsin way.

Frederica Freyberg:
Because I know that you were hoping for $10 million in state funding, but that had to have those matching funds, as you just talked about from donations. But was that ever a realistic goal and how are you working around that? Are you able to get some of that state funding without having to do the match?

Jon Henkes:
The hope is that by state action, those dollars that had the match requirement can be released in some portion, in whole or in part, to help WisconsinEye move forward. We’ve got five employees and a budget of less than a million, and we’re producing on a busy day in the capitol, up to 10 or 11 events, five of them simultaneously live. So we can make a very strong argument that this is a lean operation that delivers quality at a very affordable price. We’re not asking for new state money. These dollars have already been allocated toward WisconsinEye so with some simple assurances of forward progress, I believe we can achieve both: reactivate the archive quickly and be on the air in January.

Frederica Freyberg:
Jon Henkes, thanks very much.

Jon Henkes:
Thanks.

Frederica Freyberg:
Tonight we continue our interviews with candidates running in the primary election for governor. We brought you interviews with the two Republicans in the race earlier this month. There are seven Democrats lining up. We spoke with three of them last week. Up next, senior political reporter Zac Schultz brings us introductory interviews with the remaining four Democrats, starting with former Lieutenant Governor Mandela Barnes.

Zac Schultz:
Mandela Barnes, thanks for coming in.

Mandela Barnes:
For sure. Thank you so much for having me.

Zac Schultz:
So for voters who may not be as familiar with you, introduce yourself and say why are you running for governor?

Mandela Barnes:
Absolutely. I’m Mandela Barnes, former lieutenant governor, former state rep running for governor because we found ourselves in a critical moment here in the state of Wisconsin, all across the country but Wisconsin has certainly been impacted. We see rising costs, which is no different from other states. But when people are having such a hard time to pay for groceries, to live in their homes, to be able to afford their utilities or even healthcare, we need leadership that’s going to reject the status quo and actually get to work to solving our problems. And this is more than just about bold leadership to take on Donald Trump. We need bold leadership that’s going to provide solutions. And I’m running because we need to provide real relief. In my time in the legislature, my time as lieutenant governor has been focused on making life better for people across Wisconsin. It has been focused on improving quality of life. And that’s why I’m ready to get to work to lower costs on the very first day.

Zac Schultz:
Is there a single issue that’s driven you in your career, or maybe a lane within the party that helps define who you are?

Mandela Barnes:
Well, there are a number of issues. You know, I honestly think about challenges, situations, circumstances that I’ve dealt with, you know, growing up. You know, unfortunately, I’ve lost friends to gun violence. And that was one of the biggest things that actually made me think about public service. Who was going to step up? Who was going to answer the call? And we have these conversations about crime, we have these conversations about violence in general, like, it speaks to me personally.

Zac Schultz:
How much money are you going to need to raise in order to win this primary and then the election?

Mandela Barnes:
An obscene amount of money, which is the worst part about politics. There’s far too much money involved. I think about, you know, the amount of spending that’s not just from candidates but also from super PACs. And it feels as if everyday people don’t have a voice in politics. I’m proud of, you know, my previous campaigns where we were grassroots funded. We didn’t take corporate PAC money, not a dime of corporate PAC money. And I look at this race and that’s the same case. We’re not taking corporate PAC money, but it is going to take about $50 million on the candidate side for me to raise. And it shouldn’t be that way. But if we don’t come out successful, we’ll never be able to get big money out of politics.

Zac Schultz:
You’re no stranger to competitive primaries, so what’s the difference for you between negative campaigning against a member of your party versus just defining differences between candidates?

Mandela Barnes:
Well, I have zero interest in negative campaigning against any of my opponents. My focus, as I mentioned, has been and will continue to be on November. And I say this; I have a lot of friends in the race. I respect everybody in the race. I think everybody brings something to the race, but I’m running based off of my experience. My time in the legislature, my time as lieutenant governor is unmatched in this primary. I’ve been to every single county my first, my first year as lieutenant governor, continue to make my rounds across the state every year after. Even out of office, I’ve had the great fortune and opportunity to be able to travel the great state of Wisconsin just meeting with people just, you know, existing, living, getting to enjoy the rich, natural beauty. You could spend money at our small businesses and just spend time in communities. And with that being the case, I think about the work that I have put in. And, you know, some folks may say, “Oh, Mandela’s got the name recognition.” Well, I got the name recognition because I’ve shown up.

Zac Schultz:
When voters are looking at this broad field of candidates, do you think they should look for who connects best with them on the issues, or should they be thinking about electability?

Mandela Barnes:
Well I think people should be looking about or looking at who is going to fight for them. Who is going to show up. Who’s not going to take no for an answer. Who’s going to be bold, and who is going to drastically work to improve quality of life regardless of where you live and regardless of who you vote for.

Zac Schultz:
So most of the candidates have connections to either Milwaukee or Madison. What is the — what is your outreach plan for the rest of the state for rural Wisconsin?

Mandela Barnes:
Well, I can tell you, there’s not a person in this race who has the experience in all parts of Wisconsin that I have. In ’22, I won the Wisconsin Farmers Union’s Friend of the Family Farmer Award because of my dedication to rural Wisconsin. I ran into a guy leaving that conference a few years ago and said that he never thought that he’d be voting for a guy from Milwaukee, based on his rural policy. And also understanding that rural Wisconsin isn’t just farms, it is small businesses that make up rural Wisconsin. It’s also the outdoor activities that bring tourism to rural Wisconsin.

Zac Schultz:
What do you think the impact of Donald Trump will be on this election?

Mandela Barnes:
Well, people are dissatisfied. People were lied to. People have been lied to. He lied the first time around. But people are feeling those lies a whole lot more. He called affordability a hoax. The person who is struggling to pay their utility bills right now, I don’t think that’s a hoax. People who are struggling to stay in their homes, they don’t think that’s a hoax. People who are going to see their health care premiums rise; we’re going to see their health care premiums balloon. It’s not a hoax to them. And that’s why this campaign isn’t just about me running for governor, me winning the race for governor. This is about ensuring that we have a majority in the state Assembly and the state Senate to actually do right by the people, because the will of the people should be the law of the land, and we’re going to ensure that it is.

Zac Schultz:
Mandela Barnes, thanks for coming in.

Mandela Barnes:
For sure. Thank you so much.

Frederica Freyberg:
Statewide recognition also belongs to Zac’s next candidate interview. Former Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation CEO Missy Hughes.

Zac Schultz:
Missy Hughes, thanks so much for joining us.

Missy Hughes:
Good to see you.

Zac Schultz:
So for voters who don’t know you, introduce yourself and tell us why you’re running for governor.

Missy Hughes:
Yeah. So I’m a mother of three. I’ve lived in Wisconsin since almost 2000, and we raised our family here. My husband and I working for Organic Valley, and I worked for Organic Valley for 17 years. And then Governor Evers asked if I was interested in running economic development for the state. So for the last six years, I was the head of Wisconsin Economic Development Corporation.

Zac Schultz:
Is there a single issue that drives you, or perhaps a lane within the party that helps define you?

Missy Hughes:
You know, it’s all about the economy and building a strong economy for all Wisconsinites. That’s what I did for years working at Organic Valley, helping farmers stay on their farms, and then at WEDC building an economy, whether it was in Milwaukee or Antigo or Superior all around the state, working with communities and businesses so that everyday Wisconsinites can succeed.

Zac Schultz:
How money much do you think you need to raise in order to win this primary?

Missy Hughes:
Oh, you know, the money factor in politics is really interesting and I have an incredible network. I think that the race is going to be anywhere between $2 or $3 million for the primary. But, you know, I’m just guessing. I’m not sure that I have the best answer for that. I can tell you that heading into the general, which is what I’m focused on, it is going to be an incredible race. All eyes of the nation are going to be on Wisconsin.

Zac Schultz:
For you personally, how do you define the difference between negative campaigning against a member of your own party versus just defining the differences between two candidates?

Missy Hughes:
You know, I’m excited that Wisconsin has a lot of choices for the Democratic primary, and my goal is to make sure that Wisconsinites know my story. I have a story that is fresh and different. I’ve never run for office before. I’m the only one who is from outside of Madison or Milwaukee, so I have a lot to say about myself, and I’m going to be focused on telling my story.

Zac Schultz:
For primary voters who are tuning in right now, should they be looking for the candidate where they align most closely on the issues, or should they be thinking about electability?

Missy Hughes:
You know, as a Wisconsinite, I want to make sure that we keep the governor’s seat blue and that we have someone who can lead the state and be successful in building an economy for the state. And that’s why just as a citizen of Wisconsin, I’m focused on electability and making sure that we get the right candidate winning in November.

Zac Schultz:
For this Democratic primary, most of the candidates have connections to Madison or Milwaukee, southeast Wisconsin, or even your position ties you to Madison. What’s your goal to reach the rest of the state and let people know that you can connect with those other areas?

Missy Hughes:
Yeah, well first and foremost, I live in western Wisconsin, so I am from outside of Madison and Milwaukee. I have worked all around the state. We’ve had impact in all 72 counties. So, you know, whether it’s a small business in Washburn that we’ve supported or Milwaukee Tool or Fiserv in downtown Milwaukee, we’ve had impact all around the state. And so I can speak to creating a statewide coalition that carries the day next November.

Zac Schultz:
What will be the impact of Donald Trump on this election?

Missy Hughes:
You know, I think what we’re really seeing is just a devastation in the economy. As I’m talking to businesses, they are pulling back. They’re not rehiring people. They’re stopping investments. And as I’m talking to everyday Wisconsinites, they are struggling to make ends meet. This is all because of Donald Trump’s policies. This is a man-made crisis that we are in right now. You know, looking at what’s happening with the farmers out in western Wisconsin, we saw farmers plowing under soybeans, which is insanity. And now Donald Trump is offering a bailout to try to make up for his failed policies. And again, this man-made crisis that he has created.

Zac Schultz:
All right, Missy Hughes, thanks for your time.

Missy Hughes:
Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
Many elected officials in higher office come from the state legislature. State Representative Francesca Hong of Madison hopes she becomes one of them. Here she is with Zac Schultz.

Zac Schultz:
Francesca Hong, thanks for joining us.

Francesca Hong:
Happy to be here.

Zac Schultz:
For voters who don’t know you, give us an introduction of who you are and why you’re running for governor.

Francesca Hong:
I’m a state representative for the 76th district here in Madison. I am a proud single mom to my son George, and I’m a service industry worker. And so I owned a restaurant for seven years and worked as a chef. And I still work as a bartender and line cook. And I’m running for governor because we are in a moment of crisis and chaos. But we’re also in a movement moment. And as an organizer and as a working-class candidate, I think that it’s the right thing to do to fight alongside working-class people who are demanding change.

Zac Schultz:
Is there a single issue that drives you, or perhaps a lane within the Democratic Party, that may define you?

Francesca Hong:
Fully funding public education, universal child care, and expanding BadgerCare for all. These are universal policies addressing universal issues for Wisconsinites all across the state. And I think this moment demands a visionary, bold action and not incrementalism.

Zac Schultz:
Running for governor is very expensive. How much do you think you need to run to be competitive and what’s going to happen after the primary if you make it through that?

Francesca Hong:
We are proud to be a people powered grassroots campaign, and we have thousands of donors who have given from all across the state and in fact, 48 out of 50 states here in the country. And so raising has been less of a challenge that because we have so many volunteers and folks across the state who are committed to being a part of our movement.

Zac Schultz:
When it comes to a competitive primary, for you what’s — where do you draw the line between negative campaigning against a member of your own party versus defining differences between candidates?

Francesca Hong:
No. Crowded primaries are good for democracy, but I think in this moment, people are stressed and demanding bold change. And so we’re really focused on making sure that the issues that we see folks struggling with, with affordability and, you know, living in times of fascism, we want to make sure that we are naming the billionaires and the culprits of these issues, and then how the state is responsible for presenting and delivering solutions to help people live a life of dignity.

Zac Schultz:
When primary voters are looking at all the candidates, should they be focusing more on who’s more aligned with an issue that they support or electability?

Francesca Hong:
Electability is subjective, and I think that we need leadership, and the people are demanding leadership where politicians aren’t going to say one thing and do another. We want leadership with folks who are committed to moral courage and willing to do the hard thing, and not the politically expedient or politically comfortable thing.

Zac Schultz:
Most of the Democrats running in this campaign are either aligned with Milwaukee or Madison. What’s your plan to get out, introduce yourself to the rest of the state, especially those rural areas who feel unheard?

Francesca Hong:
I’ve had the privilege of traveling across the state for the last five years, since I was elected into the legislature. Whether it’s helping other candidates campaign in this for the state Assembly or being invited to speak at and meeting farmers and educators and people across the state. I’m going back to those communities and also meeting new ones. And I think that when we go to rural areas, suburban areas, urban areas, I’ve been so heartened by the diversity of people who are attending our events: Republicans, independents, Democrats. It’s been — and it’s multigenerational. I have learned so much from young people who are attending our events, and we’re going to continue to meet those communities where they are, regardless of what part of the state they’re in.

Zac Schultz:
What do you think the impact of Donald Trump will be on this primary?

Francesca Hong:
The fascist, authoritarian regime in the federal government is really creating a lot of chaos and uncertainty for working class people. And so beyond, you know, what is happening at the federal government, I think it’s important to stay focused on how we can deliver for working class people, meeting the urgency of this moment with universal policies that are actually going to change the material conditions of people’s lives at a pace and deliver, you know, as urgently and as quickly as we can.

Zac Schultz:
All right, Francesca Hong, thanks for your time.

Francesca Hong:
Thank you so much.

Frederica Freyberg:
Zac’s next interview is with the most recent entrant to the race, former Wisconsin Department of Administration Secretary Joel Brennan.

Zac Schultz:
Joel Brennan, thanks for coming in today.

Joel Brennan:
Thanks for having me.

Zac Schultz:
So for the voters who don’t know you, introduce yourself and say why you’re running for governor.

Joel Brennan:
Yeah, well, I’m somebody who’s had a 30-year career here in Wisconsin. Mine’s a Wisconsin story, and I’m somebody who’s of and from here. And I can tell you the conversations I have with people here, that there is a palpable sense of frustration, anger. I think people are truly concerned about just making ends meet. And then, you know, you add on to that that you’ve got Donald Trump in the White House who is chaotic. He’s dysfunctional, who’s cruel, and it’s enough to make everybody angry. And I’m angry too, but I’m also somebody who, over the course of a career, I’ve demonstrated — for some people, when you get angry, you want to get even. When I get angry, I want to roll up my sleeves and get something done. And so that’s what I’ve tried to demonstrate. And so we have in Wisconsin, a situation where there are 200,000 people who are about to lose their health care benefits. Tens of thousands more who are going to see their premiums double or triple. And so that’s a reason for people to be angry. And in some ways, we need to ensure that Wisconsin values are protected. But thankfully, we have fair maps now. And with fair maps and a Democratic governor, we have an opportunity to make real, lasting change for Wisconsin, protect those values, and do things that can put us right by Wisconsin families. That’s why I’m running.

Zac Schultz:
Is there a single issue that drives you, or maybe a lane within the Democratic Party that helps define who you are?

Joel Brennan:
Well, I think if anybody’s looking around right now, the main issue that anybody is dealing with here in Wisconsin is affordability. You know, we’re in a situation where just in the last week, it was revealed that the first-time homebuyers now are 40 years old. Five years ago, they were an average of 33 years old. And we’ve got — we spent $10,000 a year on health care per person in Wisconsin. Yet there are people who go without, people who can’t afford their prescription drugs. All of those are challenges. And then at the same time, you have Donald Trump running around the country saying affordability is a Democratic hoax. It’s not a hoax. It’s an issue that’s real for every Wisconsin resident.

Zac Schultz:
How much money do you need to raise in order to be competitive and win this primary and then survive into the general election?

Joel Brennan:
Yeah, well, I think elections are expensive, and what I’m going to do in this race is I’m going to lean into the relationships that I’ve developed and cultivated over the course of the last 30 years. You know, I grew up as the second youngest of 11 kids. I had to work my way through college, have 4 or 5 jobs to do that. Everything I’ve ever had, I have earned. And so what I’m going to do is go out and communicate with people about the work that I’ve done over the last 30 years: the executive experience, the breadth that I have. And I’m confident that I can generate resources as I listen to and talk to people around the state.

Zac Schultz:
This is a very large Democratic primary, very competitive one. How do you define the difference between negative campaigning versus showing up differences between candidates?

Joel Brennan:
Yeah, well, like I said, I’m the second youngest of 11 kids. I know what it’s like to have to go to a crowded table and elbow your way in, whether it’s for attention or even to get a meal. And so, you know, I’m comfortable with that. But what I am going to do in this campaign is really talk to people about me and about my background. Thirty years of progressive executive experience – things like, you know, running the largest science museum in the state of Wisconsin at Discovery World, three years as the top appointed official in Governor Evers’ cabinet and the work that we did there. So the way that I’m going to try to distinguish myself from others is to just communicate with them about the depth of relationships and what we have done.

Zac Schultz:
So as voters start to get to know these candidates, should they be looking for who’s closest to them on the issues, or should they be thinking about electability?

Joel Brennan:
You know, I don’t think those two things are mutually exclusive. I think the issues are hugely important to everybody here in the state. And I think that when voters look, they have options and primaries are good for establishing options. And so they’ll have opportunities to look at all the candidates and what we stand for.

Zac Schultz:
Most of the Democratic candidates have connections to Milwaukee or Madison. How do you introduce yourself to rural Wisconsin, the rest of the state?

Joel Brennan:
Yeah, well, mine’s a Wisconsin story. My dad was born in 1927 to a single mom in Manitowoc, Wisconsin. My mom was born in 1928, in Milwaukee, grew up in Milwaukee and East Troy. And so, you know, ours is a Wisconsin story, just like lots of other peoples here.

Zac Schultz:
You’ve referenced the president a number of times. So what impact do you think Donald Trump will have on this election?

Joel Brennan:
I think his impact looms large over everything that we do right now. You know, and at this point, the most likely candidate on the Republican side is Tom Tiffany. And the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree when it comes to Tom Tiffany and Donald Trump. And so I think we need people, we need candidates who are able to stand up to that, but not only stand up, but be able to demonstrate that they’ve been effective about doing things and getting things done. And, you know, in my view of this, you know, yes, Donald Trump is going to play a role in the campaign. But ultimately, the campaign can’t be just about Donald Trump. It has to be about Wisconsin families, Wisconsin values. That’s what I come from. That’s who I am. And that’s what I’m looking forward to discussing and talking about as I’m out on the campaign trail.

Zac Schultz:
Joel Brennan, thanks for coming in.

Joel Brennan:
Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:
Next week, “Here & Now” we’ll take a brief hiatus, but we’re back in the new year with a special program looking at the cost of medication increasing and insurance coverage of them shrinking. Here’s a preview.

Shanon Schmidtknecht:
I just remember walking in and she had it written down on a piece of paper, no longer covered by insurance.

Marisa Wojcik:
What would you do

Bil Schmidtknecht:
We always assume that he kind of ran some life choices and said, “rent or this,” and thought he could do without it.

Marisa Wojcik:
if your medicine was suddenly not covered by insurance?

Kevin Voltz:
We need $13,000 before we can ship this. And I said, “$13,000?”

Marisa Wojcik:
If you had to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars up front…

Kevin Voltz:
Yes, that’s what this drug costs to be delivered without insurance.

Marisa Wojcik:
…before getting a lifesaving prescription.

Nilsa Cruz:
The patients really don’t understand what’s going on with their benefits.

Marisa Wojcik:
And it all seems too complicated to understand.

Ann Lewandowski:
You’re really in survival mode, and you’re just trying to figure out, like, do I go to work and make money or do I deal with this disease?

Mary Felzkowski:
We have the fifth highest health care costs in the nation, and our quality does not reflect that.

Larry Crowley:
These patients are confused, they’re overwhelmed, and they’re forced into impossible decisions about their health.

Frederica Freyberg:
Join us January 2nd at 7 p.m. for “Rx Uncovered,” a “Here & Now” one hour special. That’s our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. We’ll see you in the new year.

Announcer:
Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.