Here & Now

Here & Now for December 10, 2021

Announcer:

The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:

Hospitals are full up as Delta wreaks havoc across the state and officials look for ways to alleviate health care staffing shortages. An election committee promotes false claims and confusion. And new shelters bring warm for people without homes. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” Dr. Ryan Westergaard gives updates on the status of COVID-19 ahead of the holidays. And Senator Andre Jacque shares one solution to alleviate the burden on healthcare workers. We hear from the Madison mayor on the election dispute as well as analysis from political scientist Barry Burden and a new shelter initiative could serve as a model to protect people against Wisconsin winters. It’s “Here & Now” for December 10.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

Despite Omicron emerging as the newest variant of concern, Wisconsin is dealing with Delta. The state has been averaging more than 3,000 new cases of COVID-19 every day, and the number of COVID-related hospitalizations has increased by more than 200 in the last week. For the latest on how the state is managing the growing crisis, we turn to state epidemiologist from the Wisconsin Department of Health Services, Dr. Ryan Westergaard. Thanks very much for being here again.

Ryan Westergaard:

Thank you for having me back.

Frederica Freyberg:

How would you describe the situation with the availability of ICU and other hospital beds in Wisconsin right now?

Ryan Westergaard:

We’re in a dangerous situation. It’s not strictly ICU beds. It is all hospital beds. It’s emergency departments and it is the general availability for bandwidth of healthcare professionals around the state that is very strained. We have very full hospitals which makes it more difficult to give people the highest level of care they need when people need it.

Frederica Freyberg:

Would it be true that the hospital capacity crisis or nearing crisis as described is predominantly a staffing shortage because of COVID patients taking extra care?

Ryan Westergaard:

COVID patients can be quite sick as everyone knows. It can take a lot of resources and the physical space isn’t generally the limiting step. We need to have healthcare professionals who can administer the care, manage ventilators, provide medications and monitor people closely. So yes, generally it’s not physical space, it’s the capacity for our providers, our nurses, physicians and therapists to do the work that they need to do.

Frederica Freyberg:

Governor Evers seeks 100 hospital workers from FEMA and National Guard medics are already helping staff state mental health hospitals, is this enough?

Ryan Westergaard:

We certainly hope so. You know, we — we will never stop. We don’t turn people away who need care. We will always do what we can to provide the best life-saving care that we can. The additional help that we need of course is for Wisconsin residents. There are things we can do to relieve this strain and that is to prevent disease and to do the things we know prevent COVID-19 which are predominantly vaccination, masks, getting tested, social distancing, staying home when you’re sick. Increasingly I’d like to highlight getting influenza vaccine. We’re lagging a bit. Our goal is for 70% of Wisconsin residents to get a flu vaccine every year. We’re only about at a third right now. These are things everyone can do to prevent our hospitals from being full. To prevent yourself from getting sick and needing more care.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is your reaction and response to the fact that so many people are not taking those steps?

Ryan Westergaard:

Well, it’s understandable because these are — everyone is tired of living through a pandemic. Everyone is tired of having to have their life be different than it was in the past. So I have a lot of compassion for people who say that I’m really sick of this and I want life to be back to normal. But what I want people to understand is that we have opportunity to do a really important thing which is to save lives. Over the next few months, it’s going to be really stressful in our hospitals and we have the ability, by taking small steps of being smart about when we’re gathering and getting ourselves vaccinated, to be part of the solution which is to prevent the spread of disease and save lives of people in our community.

Frederica Freyberg:

In terms of the situation in the hospitals, the capacity, was it ever this bad in the first wave of COVID?

Ryan Westergaard:

It’s getting close. The numbers of people hospitalized with COVID is on par with where we were in November and December of 2020. What we hear is that people are generally younger and staying in the hospital for longer. The number of people on ventilators, mechanical ventilation because of respiratory failure is higher than it’s ever been since we’ve been collecting data. So yes, this is unfortunately the virus hasn’t let up and we need to do — we need to continue to do the things to try to mitigate the cases numbers from getting worse.

Frederica Freyberg:

Meanwhile, if Delta is what is crushing Wisconsin right now, what are you learning about the Omicron in the state?

Ryan Westergaard:

There is still a lot to learn. We’ve detected a few cases through whole genome sequencing, fewer than ten at this point. So you’re right. 99 — greater than 99% of the virus circulating is the Delta variant. We’re in a period where we’re going to learn a lot over the next few weeks. The early evidence is that it spreads even easier. So standing across the room a person can be infected if someone is infected in the room. The encouraging news is that we haven’t seen evidence that it causes more severe disease. In most of the people who have been detected of having the Omicron variant, who have been vaccinated have mild symptoms and have not required hospitalizations. So still a lot to learn, but anytime we have a variant that is more transmissible than what is already around, it’s another thing — another reason for concern and we really can’t afford to have a lot more cases than we already have.

Frederica Freyberg:

Indeed. Dr. Ryan Westergaard, thanks very much and thanks for your work.

Ryan Westergaard:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

In a briefing Wednesday with the governor, DHS Secretary-designee Karen Timberlake said more than 270 hospitals and long-term care facilities have requested staffing help from the state. A bipartisan bill is looking to address staffing needs by allowing veterans with medical backgrounds to temporarily perform certain duties in a healthcare setting without first obtaining a license. De Pere Republican Senator Andr Jacque coauthored the bill and he joins me now. Thank you for being here.

Andr Jacque:

Thank you for having me on the program.

Frederica Freyberg:

The first thing I want to ask is how you’re feeling after your own very serious bout with COVID?

Andr Jacque:

Oh, feeling great. Feeling great. Great to be working on legislation and it’s been a very productive legislative season. And of course the magic of the Christmas season.

Frederica Freyberg:

There is that as well. You have first-hand experience with just how much care and staffing someone ventilated and who is critically ill takes. Did that factor in at all to this legislature that you’ve introduced to get military medical personnel into the hospitals to ease the crush?

Andr Jacque:

We’ve been working on this legislation going back to before the session started. For over a year now, we’ve been participating with stakeholders and certainly you look at the workforce challenges and I serve on the council of workforce investment, but we have serious challenges throughout our economy in terms of workers leaving the workforce quicker than they are entering it. This is certainly something I have worked on over the long term. Certainly worked very closely with veteran groups for a long time. As former legislator of the year for both the VFW and American Legion, I was pleased to work with those groups that are very much in support of this legislation, but certainly when you look at healthcare needs, that certainly is nothing new. And this is, this is certainly something I think is an innovative program. Certainly is going to help with a critical need.

Frederica Freyberg:

So the legislation would allow these military medics to treat people under supervision without a license. Who would ascertain their skills and ability?

Andr Jacque:

Well, you would basically have to have a memorandum of understanding that is provided both to the employer as well as there is oversight by the appropriate examining board. There has to be really working towards a credential. So we have the support of the post-secondary institutions that have already registered in support of the bill. They’ve been part of it really throughout. But this is something that you know we work within the existing structure. We’ve talked to the professionals as well as the systems like the Hospital Association, Primary Healthcare Association, Rural Wisconsin Health Cooperative. So we’re certainly working with individuals that already have a valuable skill set that are able to do certain procedures that many times through military medics and corpsman training have over a year and a half worth of nursing school they’ve already had an equivalency. This is something — I think we’re clearly working within their level of expertise. We’re not talking about surgery or prescribing drugs that sort of thing.

Frederica Freyberg:

As you say the bill would allow for eventual licensure with the help from employing hospitals, but why not license them right out of the gates?

Andr Jacque:

Well we don’t currently have credentials that might speak to specifically where an individual is at in terms of their skill level. And certainly just to go back for a second, one of the focuses we really have had is how do we get more of our military men and women to come back to Wisconsin? We have an issue in Wisconsin where individuals were entering the service and they weren’t coming back. Per capita we were behind. One of the things I’m most proud of from this most recent budget, basically eliminating the tax on active duty military pay which many times forced our military men and women to switch their residency out of state as soon as they were deployed or went out for training. And so this is an opportunity to basically say, you have a skill set, a work ethic and we want to keep you in the healthcare profession. We have those opportunities to, you know, shortly after you end your time in the service being able to continue serving here on civilian basis.

Frederica Freyberg:

How many medics could this legislation provide to Wisconsin? Any estimates on that?

Andr Jacque:

If you look at Virginia, which is still a fairly recent program, they’ve had over 350. I’m sure they are probably pushing over 400. I know that the kind of low side estimate were somewhere in the round of 50 to 60 plus within the first year. So it certainly I think is still substantial and I certainly think that it can be you know much higher than that depending on, you know again, we have things like outreach historically that we’ve done on military bases that we’ve stepped back from a little bit as a state. Hopefully we’re going to get back into that. I know there is legislative proposals to that effect.

Frederica Freyberg:

Thank you for your information on this. We are glad you are feeling well Senator Andr Jacque. Thanks.

Andr Jacque:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

A Waukesha judge this afternoon held a hearing related to the compelling of testimony from the mayors of Madison and Green Bay under threat of jail time. The case stems from former Justice Michael Gableman’s investigation into the 2020 election.

Kevin Scott:

Why are we here? We’re here because the mayors were subpoenaed. They failed to appear at the designated date for their depositions.

Jeff Mandell:

This is just an outrageous abuse of process and of violation of the law.

Frederica Freyberg:

The mayor of Madison, Satya Rhodes-Conway, along with the mayor of Green Bay, are in the crosshairs of the Gableman investigation. It’s been a bumpy ride. Mayor Rhodes-Conway joins us now with her reaction, and thanks very much for joining us.

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

It’s my pleasure, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

So, what is your response to being subpoenaed to appear and testify before former Justice Gableman?

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

You know, I think — I’m always happy to talk about what a good job our clerk’s office has done in our elections, but I think it’s really inappropriate for this investigation to be taking place behind closed doors, and it’s being paid for with taxpayer dollars. The subpoena that they used is one that you use to compel people to testify before the Legislature. And I think that this needs to be out in public. I am happy to go talk to a legislative committee about the elections process here in Madison. And really, you know, it’s a block away. I’m happy to walk up the street. All they have to do is invite me. But I think that what we can see here is that it’s not actually about how our elections were run. All the evidence we have, all the court cases, all the investigations are, you know, have shown that we did a really good job here in Madison. This is about trying to intimidate us. This is about trying to intimidate voters and to cast doubt on future elections.

Frederica Freyberg:

Did you fail to comply with said subpoena?

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

No, absolutely not. And our lawyers have been talking to Attorney Gableman and his staff this entire time. We produced reams of documents for them. And at that time, they told us that it was not necessary for us to come and testify.

Frederica Freyberg:

So, how would you describe this process of this investigation as it pertains to you?

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

You know, I think that it’s been just one thing after another showing that they really are not interested in running at an actual fair investigation, but rather they are interested in trying to create a lot of drama and a lot of doubt in the public realm. And you know, everything that we’ve done, you know, on our side has been cooperative and trying to understand what they want from us. And, you know, we don’t hear back from them. We hear from the press what they’re saying rather than direct communication back to our office.

Frederica Freyberg:

Do you know what he wants to ask you?

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

I have no idea.

Frederica Freyberg:

What would you say about the 2020 election in Madison?

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

I would say that our clerks and our poll workers did a remarkably good job running a safe, fair, and transparent election in the middle of a global pandemic.

Frederica Freyberg:

And what would you like to say to viewers or voters across the state and frankly across the nation about this investigation into the election and you?

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

I think that this investigation is yet another effort by people who are unhappy with the outcome of the November 2020 election and want to make it easier to question future elections. The truth is that elections in Madison, across the state of Wisconsin, and I believe across the country, are very well run by our municipal clerks and by poll workers who are your friends and neighbors. And so, I want people to have confidence in our electoral system and to understand that what we’re trying to do here in Madison is to make it easier for everyone who is eligible to cast a ballot.

Frederica Freyberg:

Mayor Satya Rhodes-Conway, thanks very much.

Satya Rhodes-Conway:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Earlier this week in a blow to Republican attempts to find wrongdoing in the 2020 elections, the Wisconsin Elections Commission unanimously threw out a claim alleging illegal funding was distributed to more than 200 municipalities, including the five largest cities in Wisconsin. But hold the phone because just after that, two Republican members of the commission changed their minds saying they do in fact want to consider the complaint. And there is more, Wednesday, an Assembly elections committee called a number of people to testify whose credentials as experts were questioned including by our next guest Professor Barry Burden, director of the UW-Madison Elections Research Center. And professor, thanks very much for being here.

Barry Burden:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is going on here? It really feels like these election probes are kind of spinning out of control.

Barry Burden:

It is a bit of a three ring circus. We are more than a year from the presidential election and still there are probes, investigations and audits underway in one form or another. All of them seem to be essentially open-ended with no clear goals, unclear who was involved, what deadlines are set for producing some kind of report or conclusion. So my fear is that they are unfortunately doing the opposite of what the proponents say they are doing. Instead of building confidence in the election system, they are continuing to raise suspicions, make allegations and leave questions on the table that are likely to lower public trust in elections.

Frederica Freyberg:

However do you believe that’s by design and if so, what would be the motivation for that?

Barry Burden:

I don’t know if it’s by design. It could be by incompetence, lack of experience. Michael Gableman has said himself he doesn’t know how Wisconsin elections operate so there is a learning curve I think for some of the legislators and investigators who are involved. But I think there is also a kind of sympathy for President Trump and the concerns he has raised about the integrity of the election in Wisconsin specifically. Speaker Vos introduced Michael Gableman as the head of the investigation after meeting with President Trump at a rally in Alabama. So there is clearly external pressure being put on some Republican leaders to keep these issues alive.

Frederica Freyberg:

Would you regard it as more than sympathy and potential political necessity?

Barry Burden:

Well, it’s true the base of the party, the core supporters, at least of President Trump are still highly skeptical of the election. Doubtful that President Biden deserves his position and want it uncovered and investigated. That’s despite the fact dozens of lawsuits, including I think seven or eight in Wisconsin, have confirmed the result. Judges have thrown those cases out. In Wisconsin we have also done a full recount of Dane County and Milwaukee County at President Trump’s request. That validated the result. That doesn’t seem to matter. So it doesn’t appear to be an investigation looking for facts, it seems to be an investigation trying — or investigations, plural, trying to find support for an assumption or conclusion that’s already been reached.

Frederica Freyberg:

In the latest informational hearing this week held at the Capitol from Republican lawmakers investigating the 2020 election, it had you tweeting, “I don’t have the time to live tweet correct the nonsense that so-called election experts are giving state legislators at their invitation.” Why did you characterize those who testified in front of Representative Brandtjen’s committee Wednesday as experts in quotation marks?

Barry Burden:

Well the people who were invited this week and in a prior hearing the committee held, are mostly election doubters. Either conspiracy theorists or people who have filed lawsuits to try to overturn the election results. They already have a conclusion about what they think about the validity of the election and they are presenting to the committee what look like authoritative analysis that involve statistics and charts and references to statues, but the truth is they’re all amateurs who are Donald Trump supporters as are the people working on the Gableman investigation. It’s not the kind of bipartisan, serious look that I hope the Legislature would do after every election to try to make improvements and tweaks. Instead it’s sort of feeding into this fringe narrative about the questions about the validity of the election itself.

Frederica Freyberg:

In your expert opinion, how should voters take this? What should they do with all of this information that’s being generated from all of these investigations?

Barry Burden:

You know, the people to trust are those who are in positions of authority who actually administer elections and understand how they are run. Those are mainly the county and municipal clerks across the state. Every city, town and village has its own clerk. They are happy to answer your questions and will tell you they have confidence in the election. They won’t say it was perfect. It’s a complicated human process that has some errors and some inconsistencies, but they are people who know from firsthand experience how these things operate as opposed to these outside observers who is are flown in to offer kind of outlandish speculation.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right Professor Barry Burden thank you for joining us.

Barry Burden:

Glad to be with you.

Frederica Freyberg:

In other news, as you turn up your thermostat or throw logs on the fire, imagine living and sleeping outside. Hundreds of people experiencing homelessness in Wisconsin are doing just that tonight. In Madison alone, last year, their numbers swell to around 600 by some counts, but this winter about 30 people are newly sheltered from the cold in a new way. They are residing in an encampment of small, but private dwellings the city erected for people who until just recently were living in tents.

Jay Gonstead:

You know you just feel human again.

Frederica Freyberg:

Jay Gonstead welcomed us into his new place.

Jay Gonstead:

This is my bed which is … it’s comfortable.

Frederica Freyberg:

Gonstead has been living in the 8 x 8 shelter for less than a month.

Jay Gonstead:

Here’s my keys. When they handed them to me the day I got here I think that’s what kind of — you know — put me over the edge a little bit.

Frederica Freyberg:

Why?

Jay Gonstead:

Because I knew I was going to be safe.

Frederica Freyberg:

Before being given the keys to his fresh start, Gonstead had lived in a tent in this city park alongside nearly 100 others.

Jay Gonstead:

It was more survival mode. You know, you had to focus on surviving more than living and you know getting back on track.

Frederica Freyberg:

The city helped move 35 people out of the tents to a hotel near the park. 30 more came here where there are bathrooms and hot showers and rows of tiny, heated temporary homes.

Jay Gonstead:

You don’t really realize a warm bathroom, hot shower, heat, electricity, those are actually necessities.

Brenda Konkel:

Those types of things is really, really, really beneficial to folks to be able to think about what their next steps are going to be.

Frederica Freyberg:

Brenda Konkel coordinated with the city to launch the new shelter project, including hiring on-site recovery services for residents.

Sara Allee-Jatta:

This is the first time for a lot of people that somebody has been able to just listen without interruption and people can tell their story. So there is a lot of people that just want to come in and be heard and just talk.

Frederica Freyberg:

Some advocates say the shelter is necessary, but they are still critical.

Joe Volk:

It’s better than a tent, but certainly a government can do better than trying to house people for the winter in 8 x 8 shanties.

Brenda Konkel:

Myself I was probably a little skeptical of the project thinking it was just a band aid.

Frederica Freyberg:

But seeing residents faces light up and smile, Konkel now says it can serve as a model. Another option for people experiencing homelessness. A place Gonstead says he found himself after bad choices, bad luck and bad credit.

Jay Gonstead:

I didn’t ask for this. You know, I didn’t ask for this. Homelessness. I didn’t ask for it.

Frederica Freyberg:

When outreach workers asked him to move from the tent, he says the fear, the pain and the stress melted away.

Jay Gonstead:

You knew you were going to be warm. You knew you were going to be safe here.

Frederica Freyberg:

Donations pour into the site and this day, one was marked for delivery to Jay Gonstead.

Jay Gonstead:

Blankets, towels, silverware.

Frederica Freyberg:

A different measure of warmth from strangers he never knew cared.

Jay Gonstead:

A sign that will be hung up.

Frederica Freyberg:

The city of Madison will spend about $2 million from federal COVID relief funds for the construction and operation of the shelters including on-site services. As for Jay Gonstead, he says he is looking for work and then a permanent home.

For the latest on COVID-19, visit our website at PBSwisconsin.org and then click on the news tab. That is our program, I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.