Here & Now

Here & Now for August 7, 2020

Announcer:

The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” the collapse of the Democratic Party Convention in Milwaukee. U.S. Senator Ron Johnson is here with an update on coronavirus relief efforts in Washington. Governor Tony Evers is also here with the latest on Wisconsin’s handling of the virus. And we will learn the results of a new study on the grim and persistent race inequities in Milwaukee. It’s “Here & Now” for August 7.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

Milwaukee was set to share the national political spotlight in a little more than a week. That was until the Democratic National Committee announced Wednesday that the parties’ national convention is essentially cancelled, now but a virtual reality. No national speakers on site. No Joe Biden at the podium. Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett.

Tom Barrett:

Of course we’re disappointed. I would be lying if I didn’t tell you that I’m very, very disappointed in this professionally and personally because I think we all have had so much pride in having Milwaukee chosen to host the 2020 Democratic National Convention. Because this was the first time in the history of this city. It was the first time in the history of this state that we were chosen to host a major political party convention. And I was proud of that because I wanted to show off our city. I wanted the world to know Milwaukee’s story. I wanted local businesses to enjoy an economic boost. And obviously those opportunities are not going to occur in the next couple weeks.

Frederica Freyberg:

A coronavirus relief bill has been tying Washington up in knots. Democrats and Republicans spent the day trying to make a deal on aid spending. A deal that to be hatched would have to bring the sides hundreds of billions of dollars closer. Earlier today we talked with Republican U.S. Senator Ron Johnson from his district. Senator, thank you so much for joining us.

Ron Johnson:

Glad to be here. Hope you’re staying healthy.

Frederica Freyberg:

And you. Describe for us why you have called the Democrats’ proposed spending levels in the relief package as grotesque.

Ron Johnson:

Just look at the numbers. We’ve already, as of the end of April, we passed at least $2.9 trillion. I had an Oversite Hearing on this. It could be $3.5 to $3.6. To put that into perspective, that represents about thirteen and a half — almost 17% of our economy. Unemployment is down about 10.5%. Recent economic forecasts say for the whole of 2020, our economy will probably shrink 4.6 to 7%. So we’ve already authorized more than enough spending. About $1.2 to almost $1.5 trillion, according to our witnesses, is unspent and unobligated. So what I’ve been saying is I’m happy to take a look at what we haven’t spent or obligated but let’s learn from what we already have spent. What didn’t work, what did work, you know, how can we direct the other 1.2 to 1.5 so it’s really directed toward the individuals and businesses that truly need the help. When we passed these bills in late April, we knew had to do something fast. We had to do something massive and knew it was going to be far from perfect. No criticism over what we did. But now is the time to correct the less than perfect. Let’s not mortgage our kids’ future. We’re $26.5 trillion in debt. On the way to $27 trillion, $28 trillion. Some other stats. I know I’m throwing a lot of numbers but real disposable income is actually increased from about $14.9 trillion in March to $16 trillion in June. Saving rates have increased from 8.3% to 19.2. So, again, we authorized more than enough money. We need to just spend what we authorized better as opposed to what Nancy Pelosi did was double that amount. So she is proposing literally authorizing in total probably close to 30% of last year’s GDP when this year’s GDP will probably only be down under 10%. That’s why I called that extra $3 trillion a grotesque amount.

Frederica Freyberg:

The $600 extra unemployment benefit expired last week and you have said that you wanted something less than that. Why?

Ron Johnson:

Well, first of all, remember what Democrats did after the Great Recession when they had the presidency, a filibuster-proof Senate and the House. They plused up state unemployment benefits by $25 a week. What we’ve done is we’ve plused it up by $600 per week. The University of Chicago did a study, said about 68% of people on unemployment benefits were making more on unemployment than they were making on the job. CBO said about five out of six people. That’s a perverse incentive for people not to be engaged back in the workforce and help build our economy. What I’ve proposed was why don’t we plus them up by $200. That’s eight times more than the $25 per week the Democrats enacted after the Great Recession. But that’s not enough. We actually had, I think, a couple proposals now to give us time to negotiate. We’ll just extend the $600 a week or two and Democrats still say no on that. Democrats are insisting on a $3 trillion bill. Republicans are trying to work in good faith and genuinely offer some good proposals here. Democrats keep saying no. But again, remember, my proposal $200 per week is still eight times higher than what Democrats passed when they had total control after the Great Recession.

Frederica Freyberg:

Doesn’t the extra money itself though spur the economy as well as keep people afloat?

Ron Johnson:

I know the argument is made there, but our economy would be spurred far better if we encouraged people to re-engage in the economy, get back in the workforce. At the end of May – I don’t know what the figures are yet for the end of June – at the end of May, there were 5.4 million jobs open that were open that weren’t being filled. What I hear from employers that are trying to open up, trying to reignite this economy is they can’t bring people back off of unemployment. People make rational decisions. If they’re making more sitting at home on unemployment, they’re sitting at home. Not all of them but an awful lot of them. We have to end that very perverse incentive.

Frederica Freyberg:

As the senior senator from Wisconsin, what is your message to the people of this state in the midst of what is a devastating pandemic?

Ron Johnson:

Certainly from what I supported in Congress is I knew we had to pass something fast. I knew it had to be pretty massive because we didn’t want markets to collapse. We wanted to provide individuals through no fault of their own, businesses that were closing, employees that were out of work, we wanted to give them the financial aid. And we tried to do that. And we did do it. And even the federal government has a hard time spending trillions of dollars. Again, we haven’t spent $1.2 trillion. Why don’t we spend that better before we authorize another dime. We need to be concerned about the fact we’re $26.5 trillion in debt moving toward 27, 28. That is going to have an enormous impact in the future. Reduced opportunity for our children. We’re mortgaging our kids’ future. We need to be careful about that. This isn’t Monopoly money. This is real money. This has a real, long-term effect. Let’s spend it wisely.

Frederica Freyberg:

As chair of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, you are leading an investigation going back to the Obama administration. What are you seeking to uncover here?

Ron Johnson:

What we’ve already uncovered is corruption at the highest levels. Certainly at the FBI, Department of Justice, the corruption of the transition process. Part of our investigation did seek to determine what happened in the election based on a report from Politico where that report showed that some DNC operatives were working with some Ukrainian nationals, possibly corrupting the election process. We’ve been investigating these things for years. We’ve uncovered an awful lot. Our investigation certainly showed and made public the Peter Strzok – Lisa Page texts which had been kind of a roadmap of the corruption that did occur within the FBI. These are real issues. This is real corruption. The American public has a right to know.

Frederica Freyberg:

With just about a minute left, senator, what is your reaction to critics of this investigation saying it’s diverting your time and attention and others away from dealing with the pandemic?

Ron Johnson:

First of all, it isn’t. Most of my committee’s time has been spent holding hearings on COVID-related issues: the national stockpile, the vulnerability of our supply chains. We held a marking up legislation a couple weeks ago. We passed five bills addressing COVID and a national stockpile and supply chain vulnerability. It’s not distracting from our efforts whatsoever. Quite honestly, there is an enormous disinformation campaign being conducted against myself and Chairman Grassley and it is Democrats that have bought and paid for Russian disinformation and are now interjecting those into our investigatory record as well. Democrats are accusing us of the exact same — falsely accusing us of the exact same behavior they’re currently engaging in. It’s despicable.

Frederica Freyberg:

Lots going on. Senator Ron Johnson, thank you so much for joining us.

Ron Johnson:

Have a great day. Stay healthy.

Frederica Freyberg:

We invited Democratic Senator Tammy Baldwin to join our program. She was unable. She did provide this statement concerning the relief package. “President Trump keeps pretending that things are getting better when this public health and economic crisis continues to get worse. For nearly three months, Senate Republicans have failed to take action on legislation that passed the House and now they want to cut federal unemployment benefits while so many in Wisconsin are still out of work and struggling to make ends meet. Families, small businesses and schools need help in Wisconsin and we need to take action now on bipartisan legislation that delivers it.”

Here at home, today marks the end of the first full week of the mask mandate in Wisconsin. Governor Tony Evers’ order requires Wisconsinites to wear masks indoors until the end of September. There are continued signals from Republicans at the State Capitol regarding a legislative challenge to this mandate. This week state health officials reported high activity levels of the virus in 66 out of the state’s 72 counties. Governor Tony Evers joins us again this week. And, governor, thank you so much for being here.

Tony Evers:

Thanks, Frederica. Appreciate it.

Frederica Freyberg:

Well, what are your public health officials telling you about whether or not your mask mandate is yet slowing the spread of COVID-19 in Wisconsin as we near 1,000 deaths and I understand we are likely to surpass that this weekend.

Tony Evers:

Yeah, what a sad mark on the country and the state. It’s just too much to all take in. But we’ve had good response to the masking, whether it’s been from business leaders or from school people or general public. Obviously, we have people in the state of Wisconsin who are very independent. I’m one of them. But the fact of the matter is masks save lives. Masks slow down the transmission. And at the end of the day, it’s a minor thing for us to do. And so I feel very confident that this is going to be a difference. It’s difficult to point a metric at this point in time, but I’m confident that it is being successful and we’re very hopeful that people do what they need to do. We can slow down the transmission of this virus.

Frederica Freyberg:

Why don’t you think a Republican challenge to your mandate and emergency order has yet materialized?

Tony Evers:

That I don’t know. I mean, first of all, I think it’s horrible public policy for them to do that. And, frankly, I think it’s also horrible politics. The vast majority of people in the state of Wisconsin understand how simple and important this is. And hopefully they’re getting the idea, too. But if they’re insistent on coming in, it would be a huge mistake as it relates to public health.

Frederica Freyberg:

One of the things the GOP warns about, though, is that you will use your order to go ahead and close schools to in-person learning. What would it take for to you do that?

Tony Evers:

Well, first of all, I’ve been working with schools all across the state, talking to them. So there’s no shortage of conversation there. And I’ve been fairly happy with the process they’re using. They’re using some of the information from the Department of Public Instruction, their local public health people. And so it would be just an extraordinary circumstance for me to intervene. Almost every school district I’ve talked to has a virtual and remote option so that if parents or kids feel uncomfortable, they have that option. And I know schools are going to do a better job of that than when they were so rushed in the spring.

Frederica Freyberg:

Would you ever do it, though?

Tony Evers:

I can’t imagine. I mean, you never say never. I mean if our positivity rate goes up to 20% or 30%, obviously that would bring our entire economy to a halt, including schooling. But I think we’re in a place now that it is something that lots of school districts have figured out and I feel good about it. We have kids going to school right now in the state of Wisconsin that are in year-round schooling. So I don’t want to dismiss the problems. There are — it’s — it’s not a risk-free environment. But I think people are being very thoughtful about what it should look like.

Frederica Freyberg:

Toward that end, you have released $32 million to the UW System to conduct testing on campuses. What other help might be coming their way?

Tony Evers:

Well, certainly they’re part of our ecosystem. Whatever we can do to help them. I mean, there’s a limited amount of money that we have to provide to the UW System but we’re in constant collaboration with them, and if they have other needs, we’ll be able to seek — work with them. Contact tracing I think is going to be an issue and I think we can be helpful there, too.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Briefly, because of the coronavirus, as you well know, the Democratic Convention in Milwaukee has all but collapsed. What is your reaction to Joe Biden deciding not to accept his nomination here?

Tony Evers:

Well, it was — not — it was — it was not that it wasn’t expected. Clearly we have a pandemic going on in this country, and so him not being there isn’t the only reason it’s not going to be there. It’s just that a pandemic leads itself to making sure that we have to be as thoughtful as possible. And people were. And so it’s going to be a virtual event. And it will be fine. But it’s not fine in that a pandemic has caused us to — the Milwaukee area would have had a significant economic boost from this. And that is not going to happen. But it’s the wisest thing to do, and so I’m looking forward to doing it in a virtual way.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Governor Tony Evers, thanks so much for joining us.

Tony Evers:

Thanks Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

No metropolitan area today ranks as consistently poorly across the board on indicators of black community well-being as does Milwaukee. That quote from a new study from the Center for Economic Development out of UW-Milwaukee, which compared Black communities in the nation’s 50 largest metro areas. This report comes at a time, according to its authors, of national reckoning about racial injustice, when data can drive change. Founding Director of the Center and Professor Emeritus Marc Levine joined us late this week from Milwaukee. Professor Levine, thank you very much for joining us.

Marc Levine:

Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

Well, so every metric you looked at saw Milwaukee really at the bottom of the pack for Black people’s well-being, including these: still the nation’s most segregated city. Black poverty the highest among 50 metros. Worst racial disparity of worker earnings. Most black school children in hyper-segregated schools. And third nationally for prison incarceration rates for Black men. You say that Milwaukee, “represents the archetype of modern day metropolitan racial apartheid and inequality.” And yet why do we need yet another study telling us this?

Marc Levine:

I think the utility of doing a study like this is to get the full scope of the extent of racial inequality in Milwaukee, and indeed across the country, the benchmark where we stand. To see also whether things have gotten better in certain areas. So what this study did was not only benchmark Milwaukee against the largest 50 metropolitan areas in the country on a whole series of indicators, as you mentioned, of racial inequality, but also to see how things have evolved on many of those indicators over the past 40 and 50 years, wherever we could get the data to look at that. And I think the most distressing and the devastating part of the study was not only to see how consistently across the board Milwaukee ranked toward the bottom, either last or next to last on a slew of indicators and in the bottom ten on virtually all of them, but on how many of those indicators things are demonstrably worse than they were 30, 40 and 50 years ago. I’ll just give one example. There are so many but to me this is a key one. Household income, sort of a key metric on the well-being of the community. Black household income, median income, that is, from the middle of the distribution, for Black households in Milwaukee has fallen by 30% when we adjust for inflation over the last 40 years, since 1979. That’s the largest decrease in the country. But more to the point, just looking at it without even looking in comparative terms, just looking at a Black household and say you’re 30% poorer than you were 40 years ago and you weren’t all that rich 40 years ago. That, to me, is an extraordinary statement and I think a lot of these other indicators feed off of, unfortunately, that bad result.

Frederica Freyberg:

In fact, that’s what I was going to ask you. All of the other indicators and metrics that you measured feed into that income disparity.

Marc Levine:

I think so. I think that’s the key issue that we’ve got the most impoverished African-American community in the country and it’s a community that has become increasingly impoverished. It, I think, had somewhat of an improvement in the 1990s with the great economic boom during that era. The recession of 2010 wiped all that out. And, sadly, since the recession, real household income has continued to decline for Blacks in Milwaukee and the data that’s in this study is before the COVID depression. So imagine how bad things are starting to look now in 2020.

Frederica Freyberg:

It’s devastating, as you say. But what is your kind of clarion call to policymakers, indeed Wisconsin really as a whole, as to what should be done.

Marc Levine:

I think for many years, frankly, as you point out, there have been study after study. My center, other centers have done many studies on these issues. But there has been — folks might deny it, but there has been a kind of denial about this in policy-making circles. Either saying, well, the numbers aren’t that bad or things are getting better or every place is having these difficulties. There’s nothing unique about here. In fact, there are things unique about Milwaukee in the depth of these problems. And so I think, I hope now that we’re beyond that denial, that policymakers understand that we need to change things, I think the mobilization of the Black Lives Matter movement has certainly brought those issues to the forefront and I think we need to think very clearly about, I think I refer to it in the study, a phrase that I borrowed called “rewriting the racial rules of the community.” Those institutional arrangements, those public policies that continue to promote racial injustice in the community. And that goes beyond simply things that we can all point to: ending discrimination in housing, ending discrimination in employment, improving, obviously, police practices. But even the larger picture of rethinking how we do economic development. My friends at the Center on Wisconsin Strategy in Madison have talked for years about the state pursuing the low road approach to economic development. That low road approach means low wages. It means not particularly helpful policies for workers to organize for better wages. And then you see Black earnings at the bottom of the scale, as they are today, and that translates then into low incomes and translates into high poverty rates. So I think we need to rethink that low road as well in the general economic development sense and pursue what folks call the “high road strategy,” which means raising people’s wages and creating better jobs.

Frederica Freyberg:

With less than a minute left here, as you say, with this Black Lives Matter mobilization, is now the right time to rewrite a bold set of these inclusionary rules? Is the time now?

Marc Levine:

Absolutely. I refer to a lot of these trends in the study as having been a stealth depression in Black Milwaukee. Something that was always there, but it was stealth. We didn’t talk about it. I think it’s pretty clear even without this study, but I think this study makes it crystal clear, that we’re now clearly in an unstealth depression. It’s front and center. We see what’s out there. And I think, yes, we need to embark upon bold desegregation strategies, bold antidiscrimination strategies and rethink economic development so it promotes greater economic equality between racial groups.

Frederica Freyberg:

We leave it there. Professor Marc Levine, thanks very much and thanks for your work.

Marc Levine:

Thank you very much for having me. Much appreciate it.

Frederica Freyberg:

Young people are showing up for protests and for the ballot box and they could play a huge role in the November election according to a recent Tufts University poll. In her weekly web special, “Here & Now” Reporter Marisa Wojcik spoke with Maya Neal, political organizer for Leaders Igniting Transformation, a Milwaukee group that trains youth of color to become organizers in their own communities.

Marisa Wojcik:

Particularly young people of color, do you think they get written off and they’re not being heard?

Maya Neal:

Absolutely. I see it as a major problem in politics. Young people — so first I’ll say young people have the ideas, you know. We have the ideas, the innovation, the creativity to change things. We know what we need because it affects us, right? And despite knowing all of that and having the ability and the potential to play a role in the politics that affect us, young folks aren’t often given the opportunities to do so.

Frederica Freyberg:

This election year takes on special significance during the 100th anniversary of women’s suffrage in the U.S. Wisconsin led the way for a woman’s right to vote by being the first state to ratify the 19th Amendment in 1919. Next Thursday night, August 13th, tune in for “Wisconsin Women Vote: A ‘Here & Now’ Special.” The program features the thoughts of some of Wisconsin’s leading women in politics, including Milwaukee Congresswoman Gwen Moore. Here’s a preview.

Gwen Moore:

That’s awesome. When are we rolling this out?

Frederica Freyberg:

Another first in Wisconsin brings us to U.S. Representative Gwen Moore of Milwaukee. In 2004, she became Wisconsin’s first African-American woman elected to Congress.

Gwen Moore:

You know what they always say, if you’re not at the table, you’re on the menu. And so often, women’s rights are on the menu. And I think it’s because we have what 17%, 18% representation in Congress, in legislative bodies. And we need to up that number so that there’s never a question.

Frederica Freyberg:

When you were first elected to office, did you feel as though you belonged?

Gwen Moore:

Oh, my god, Frederica. When I first got there, my first instinct was to sort of pretend I was a man, you know. Was to — you know, I am not going to be stereotyped as a woman. I’m going to get in there and show them I’m just as good as the old boys. And that lasted about a day before I started seeing all the initiatives come down that were disquieting policies for women and children. And so that resolve slipped away right away. I had to be a woman.

Frederica Freyberg:

And do you feel —

Gwen Moore:

And I had to be a Black woman.

Frederica Freyberg:

Milwaukee U.S. Representative Gwen Moore in an excerpt from “Wisconsin Women Vote: A ‘Here & Now” Special.” The program airs next Thursday night, August 13 at 7.

In the coming weeks, get to know the candidates and issues in the 2020 election by visiting WisconsinVote.org.

That is our program for tonight. Next week, how the Trump-Biden race is adding up in Wisconsin, according to a new Marquette Law School Poll. Poll Director Charles Franklin will be here. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

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Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.