Here & Now

Sanders' Big Wisconsin Win Doesn't Win Him Many Delegates

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WISCONSIN PRIMARY VOTERS THIS WEEK GAVE A COMMANDING 13-POINT VICTORY TO REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE TED CRUZ. ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, THEY WERE CERTAINLY FEELING THE BERN TUESDAY. DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE BERNIE SANDERS BEATING HILLARY CLINTON BY ROUGHLY 14 POINTS. BUT TED CRUZ CAME AWAY WITH NEARLY ALL OF THE DELEGATES, WHILE ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE SANDERS AND CLINTON BASICALLY SPLIT THE DELEGATES NEEDED TO CAPTURE THE NOMINATION DESPITE HIS LOPSIDED VICTORY. SO HOW DOES THAT WORK? WISCONSIN PUBLIC RADIO CAPITOL BUREAU CHIEF SHAWN JOHNSON IS HERE TONIGHT WITH CAPITOL INSIGHT. THANKS FOR BEING HERE. SO THE SHORT ANSWER AS TO WHY CRUZ GAINED A LOT FROM WISCONSIN AND SANDERS GAINED VERY LITTLE IS THAT THE TWO POLITICAL PARTIES DO THIS DELEGATE ALLOCATION THING VERY DIFFERENTLY.

SHAWN JOHNSON:

OUTWARDLY IF YOU LOOKED AT WHAT HAPPENED TUESDAY WE HAD AN ELECTION. PEOPLE WENT TO THEIR POLLING PLACES. THEY LINE UP IN THE SAME LINE. DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS WERE HANDED THE SAME BALLOT. THERE WAS REALLY NOTHING DIFFERENT FROM ANY OTHER ELECTION, RIGHT? BUT WHEN IT COMES TO A PRIMARY LIKE THIS, THE PARTIES SET THE RULES FOR HOW THE DELEGATES GET ALLOCATED. IN WISCONSIN THEY DO IT VERY DIFFERENTLY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

IT TURNS OUT THE WISCONSIN DEMOCRATIC PARTY CAME UP WITH ITS RULES DETERMINING DELEGATE ALLOCATION IN 1972, THE LAST TIME THERE WAS THIS KIND OF VOTER TURNOUT IN A WISCONSIN PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY.

SHAWN JOHNSON:

RIGHT. AND HERE’S WHAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY SAYS ABOUT ITS RULES. QUOTE – PROPORTIONALITY HAS BEEN A HISTORICAL RULE SET BY THE DNC FOR DECADES. IT REWARDS DISTRICTS THAT HAVE HIGHER DEMOCRATIC PERFORMANCE AND THUS PROBABLY MORE PEOPLE RUNNING. THE PROPORTIONAL SYSTEM IT ALSO MAKES SURE THAT CANDIDATES COMPETE ALL OVER THE STATE AND NOT JUST IN A FEW AREAS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALL RIGHT. SO THAT’S THE WHY FROM THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. BUT TELL US ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED ON TUESDAY.

SHAWN JOHNSON:

WELL, THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS. AFTER A NEAR SWEEP OF CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS AND A STATEWIDE WIN, BERNIE SANDERS ENDED UP WITH 49 DELEGATES, WHILE HILLARY CLINTON ENDED UP WITH, AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, 44. IN OTHER WORDS, AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, BERNIE SANDERS GAINED JUST FIVE DELEGATES ON CLINTON COMING OUT OF WISCONSIN. AND PART OF THE REASON THAT HAPPENED IS YOU LOOK AT PROPORTIONALITY GETS DIVIDED UP IN CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT. SO LET’S TAKE THE FIRST CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT, PAUL RYAN’S DISTRICT. BERNIE SANDERS WON THAT DISTRICT BUT HE DIDN’T WIN IT BY A HUGE MARGIN. SO HE CAME AWAY WITH THREE DELEGATES AND HILLARY CLINTON CAME AWAY WITH THREE DELEGATES. THAT HAPPENED IN FOUR DISTRICTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE, WHERE EVEN THOUGH HE WON, IT WAS CLOSE AND SO THEY SPLIT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALL RIGHT. SO THAT’S NOT ALL OF THE STORY, THOUGH, BECAUSE THERE’S SOMETHING ABOUT SUPERDELEGATES AND HOW THEY HAVE BEEN AWARDED. THEY ARE DEMOCRATIC MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, STATE PARTY LEADERS AND DNC MEMBERS FROM WISCONSIN. WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE SUPERDELEGATES?

SHAWN JOHNSON:

YEAH. THAT’S PART OF THE REASON THAT FINAL DELEGATE MARGIN IS CLOSER. YOU HAVE THESE TEN SUPERDELEGATES FOR DEMOCRATS IN WISCONSIN. THEY CAN SUPPORT WHOMEVER THEY WANT. SIX OF THEM SAID BEFORE THE ELECTION THEY WERE PERFORMING HILLARY CLINTON. BERNIE SANDERS PICKED UP ONE THIS WEEK. BUT THAT STILL LEAVES THEM WITH 49 DELEGATES FOR SANDERS, 44 FOR CLINTON. AND WHEN YOU LOOK NATIONALLY, THAT’S SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE HE HAS A LOT OF DELEGATES TO MAKE UP. HE TRAILS CLINTON BY ROUGHLY 700 DELEGATES RIGHT NOW WHEN ALL DELEGATES ARE CONSIDERED. THEY NEED TO HIT 2338 DELEGATES TO CLINCH THE NOMINATION.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO HERE’S HOW IT WORKS ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE IN WISCONSIN. TED CRUZ, WHO WON SIX OF THE EIGHT CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS, PICKED UP THREE DELEGATES FOR EACH ONE OF THOSE WINS. BUT WITH THE STATEWIDE VICTORY HE WAS ALSO AWARDED ALL 18 DELEGATES THAT ARE ON THE TABLE, FOR A TOTAL OF 36. DONALD TRUMP, WHO WON TWO DISTRICTS, GOT SIX DELEGATES. SO IT WAS TED CRUZ 36, DONALD TRUMP SIX.

SHAWN JOHNSON:

SO AS A THOUGHT EXERCISE HERE, IF DEMOCRATS WERE OPERATING UNDER THOSE SAME RULES AND DELEGATES WERE DIVIED UP THE SAME WAY, IN WISCONSINI BERNIE SANDERS WOULD HAVE WON 39 DELEGATES TO HILLARY CLINTON’S THREE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

THAT IS QUITE A THOUGHT EXERCISE.

SHAWN JOHNSON:

YES, IT IS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

BERNIE SANDERS AS A REPUBLICAN. THANKS VERY MUCH.

SHAWN JOHNSON:

THANK YOU.