FREDERICA FREYBERG:

HOW MUCH DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE NAMESAKE OF UW MADISON’S ICONIC BASCOM HALL ATOP BASCOM HILL? A NEW BOOK DIVES INTO THE MAN WHO WAS UW PRESIDENT FROM 1874 TO 1887 TITLE “JOHN BASCOM AND THE ORIGINS OF THE WISCONSIN IDEA.” ITS AUTHOR UW MILWAUKEE PROFESSOR J. DAVID HOEVELER. HE JOINS US WITH MORE. PROFESSOR, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

DAVID HOEVELER:

A PLEASURE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

IN KEEPING WITH THE TITLE OF YOUR BOOK, WHAT CONNECTION DID JOHN BASCOM HAVE TO ROBERT LAFOLLETTE AND CHARLES VAN HISE WHO DID PUT THE WISCONSIN IDEA INTO PLACE IN THE EARLY 1900S?

DAVID HOEVELER:

YES, INDEED. BOTH OF THEM WERE IN THE CLASS OF 1879. AND, OF COURSE, WENT ON TO HAVE MAJOR ROLES IN WISCONSIN, ONE AS GOVERNOR IN THE PROGRESSIVE ERA AND THE OTHER AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY FROM 1903 TO 1918. CHARLES VAN HISE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT WAS BASCOM’S MESSAGE THAT BECAME SO INSPIRATIONAL TO THESE FRAMERS OF THE WISCONSIN IDEA?

DAVID HOEVELER:

WELL, THERE IS A LARGE INTELLECTUAL BACKGROUND TO THAT QUESTION. WHAT I WANTED TO DO IN THE BOOK WAS TO TAKE THIS IDEA, WISCONSIN IDEA AND SEE IF WE COULD GET SOME INTELLECTUAL DEPTH TO IT BY LOOKING AT JOHN BASCOM BECAUSE HE WAS FIRST AND FOREMOST, A PHILOSOPHER, THEOLOGIAN, SOCIOLOGIST. HE WROTE ON A VARIETY OF SUBJECTS. AND THE WAY HE TREATED THOSE SUBJECTS LED HIM INTO ACTIVE POLITICAL AND SOCIAL ENGAGEMENTS. HE WAS —

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

GO AHEAD.

DAVID HOEVELER:

WELL, TO MENTION JUST VERY BRIEFLY. HIS CAUSES WERE TEMPERANCE, WOMEN’S RIGHTS AND THE CAUSE OF LABOR BUT HIS OVERALL MESSAGE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION WAS ON THE VALUE OF THE STATE, THE NECESSITY OF LOYALTY TO THE STATE ON BEHALF OF THE GRADUATES OF THE PUBLIC UNIVERSITY. AND LAFOLLETTE ALWAYS MENTIONED THIS WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT JOHN BASCOM AS HIS TEACHER. THIS IS WHAT HE TOOK AWAY FROM HIS CLASSROOMS, THAT THE STATE SHOULD HAVE A LARGE ROLE IN PRESERVING THE ORGANIC UNITY OF SOCIETY AND IN ADDRESSING THE NEEDS TO DEAL WITH SOCIAL JUSTICE AND TO BRING INTO THE LARGE PUBLIC LIFE THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT OF IT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

INTERESTINGLY YOU TALKED ABOUT KIND OF THREE OF THE TENETS OF HIS WORKING PHILOSOPHY. ON THE LATTER TWO, WOMEN’S RIGHTS AND WORKER RIGHTS, HOW MUCH DID HIS POSITION ON EQUALITY FOR WOMEN DIVERGE FROM THE THINKING AT THE TIME?

DAVID HOEVELER:

HE WAS VERY PROGRESSIVE. HE WAS AHEAD OF MANY OF THE FEMALE REFORMISTS OF THE DAY. HE TOOK A STANCE ON BEHALF OF THE RIGHTS OF DIVORCE. SOME WOMEN LEADERS DIDN’T LIKE IT BECAUSE THEY FELT HUSBANDS WOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT. HE WAS COMMITTED TO WOMEN’S SUFFRAGE. THERE WAS A DIVISION IN THE MOVEMENT OFTEN BETWEEN THOSE WHO FELT THIS WAS NOT THE MAJOR PART OF THE REFORM CAUSE FOR WOMEN. AND, OF COURSE, CO-EDUCATION. FROM THE TIME HE WAS AT WILLIAMS COLLEGE, WHICH WAS HIS ALMA MATER AND WHERE HE TAUGHT FOR TWO DECADES BEFORE HE CAME TO MADISON, HE WANTED WILLIAMS TO BE CO-EDUCATIONAL. HE LOST THE CAUSE. BUT HERE IN WISCONSIN, IT WAS NOT SO MUCH A QUESTION OF CO-EDUCATION AS IT WAS A UNIFORM CURRICULUM. MANY PEOPLE INSISTED THAT WOMEN FOR VARIOUS REASONS SHOULD HAVE A SEPARATE CURRICULUM. THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE A DEMANDING INTELLECTUAL CHALLENGES THAT MEN HAVE. HE REJECTED THAT NOTION THOROUGHLY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT ABOUT HIS POSITIONS ON THE WORKING MAN IN THAT GILDED AGE OF THE ROCKEFELLERS AND VANDERBILTS?

DAVID HOEVELER:

YES, INDEED. UNLIKE ALMOST ANY OTHER PRESIDENT OF A MAJOR UNIVERSITY, BASCOM SUPPORTED NOT ONLY THE RIGHT TO UNIONIZE BUT THE RIGHT TO STRIKE. AND IN THE ARRAY OF PUBLIC OPINION AT THAT TIME, THAT WOULD HAVE PUT HIM PRETTY FAR ON THE PROGRESSIVE SIDE. SOME WHO CHAMPIONED UNIONS STILL DIDN’T ENDORSE THE STRIKE. BUT BASCOM SAID THIS IS AN AGE OF ORGANIZATION AND LABOR MUST HAVE THE POWER TO ORGANIZE AS DO THE TRUST AND CORPORATIONS AS YOU MENTIONED.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO WITH JUST ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT, PROFESSOR, IF JOHN BASCOM COULD SEE THE WORLD TODAY AND THE UW’S PLACE IN IT BEING A SCHOLAR OF HIS WORK AND PHILOSOPHY, WHAT WOULD HE THINK?

DAVID HOEVELER:

WELL, JOHN BASCOM WAS COMMITTED TO THE HUMAN MIND. AND EVERY ONE OF THE INTELLECTUAL ISSUES IN WHICH HE WAS ENGAGED, PHILOSOPHICAL IDEALISM, LIBERAL PROTESTANTISM AND EVOLUTION. HE TOOK THE SIDE THAT GAVE THE MOST LEGITIMACY TO THE HUMAN MIND TO KNOW THE WORLD. TO UNDERSTAND THE INTEGRATION OF MATERIAL AND SPIRITUAL REALITY. AND IN HIS REPORTS TO THE REGENTS AND OTHER PLACES, HE WAS INSISTENT UPON KEEPING AN OPEN UNIVERSITY. EXPANDING NEW DISCIPLINES. BUT ABOVE ALL, HAVING AN UNTRAMMELED PURSUIT OF KNOWLEDGE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

PROFESSOR HOEVELER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THE TITLE OF YOUR BOOK “JOHN BASCOM AND THE ORIGINS OF THE WISCONSIN IDEA.” A MUST READ FOR PEOPLE FROM HERE AND OTHERS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

DAVID HOEVELER:

THANK YOU.