Here & Now

U.S. Sen. Ron Johnson Previews Coming Session

Frederica Freyberg:

Senator Johnson, thank you very much for joining us.

Ron Johnson:

Hello, Frederica, Happy New Year.

Frederica Freyberg:

First let me congratulate you on your re-election. I don’t think we’ve spoken since then.

Ron Johnson:

I appreciate that. Thanks.

Frederica Freyberg:

Donald Trump tweeted this morning that Mexico will reimburse American taxpayers for a new border wall and Congress will make that money available right away for the sake of speed. As Chair of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, what is your reaction and response to that?

Ron Johnson:

Well, I’ll have to see his details. We’ve heard different proposals, potentially some import fees or whatever, to pay for the wall. I was just in Israel. I went down and toured their fence with the Sinai on their southern border. They having a real problem. They built that fence in about two years. It’s about 260 kilometers. Cost them about $2.5 million per mile. Far cheaper than anything we built. I think a combination of taking a look at the right type of fencing in the right areas. The funding mechanism, we’ll just take a look at how we’re going to actually pay for the fence but doesn’t have to be all that expensive.

Frederica Freyberg:

Also this week the work has already begun to undo the Affordable Care Act with votes to take up a Senate budget resolution this week that would clear the way to repeal major prongs of it like subsidies and the taxes that supported them. Why so fast off the blocks?

Ron Johnson:

Well, we certainly want to set a procedure using reconciliation because it sounds like Minority Leader Schumer is not going to cooperate at all. So we’re going to figure out a way to do this with just 51 votes. From my standpoint, I’ve been–ever since Obamacare was finally implemented, I've been using slightly different terminology. Repairing the damage and transitioning to a system that actually works. That’s really what the effort needs to be. We have to recognize the fact that subsidies are flowing. The tax has already been implemented. People are receiving–have health insurance. Doesn’t necessarily mean they’re accessing care because the deductibles are so incredibly high. There’s been an awful lot of damage done by Obamacare. It’s a big mess. It’s our responsibility to clean up that mess. It’s going to take time. It’s very complex.

Frederica Freyberg:

Notwithstanding the fact that you suggest that you’d like to repair the damage, the repeal process is already in motion. What do you say to the 20 million people insured through Obamacare, some 230,000 of them in Wisconsin?

Ron Johnson:

First of all, from my standpoint I don’t want to see anybody lose health insurance they already have, but I certainly want to see health insurance far more affordable and the access to health care, quality health care, better. And that was not achieved by Obamacare. So again we have a really big mess on our hands. Obamacare did not live up to its name. The Affordable Care Act is not affordable. The premiums on the individual market did double and triple. Again, we have a big mess on our hands. It’s going to be very complex to unwind this and really repair the damage.

Frederica Freyberg:

But if you partially repeal the law with no replacement, you risk the collapse of the whole thing. Why not wait in Washington to repeal until you can replace?

Ron Johnson:

Well, that’s certainly my suggestion, is do them at the same time in one fell swoop. We’re working our way through this. The procedure right now is just setting up a very simple budget reconciliation process that has to do with the dollars involved with the repeal/replace effort. It’s just the first step in a very–it’s probably going to pretty long and complex process. So first of all, I don’t think anybody should worry about their health insurance they currently have going away anytime soon. We’re fully aware of the fact that it’s going to take a while for the insurance markets to reset themselves, and so we’re going to do this thoughtfully, certainly from my standpoint. That’s the way I want to do it.

Frederica Freyberg:

What's your view on Speaker Ryan's call to defund Planned Parenthood as part of this repeal?

Ron Johnson:

Nobody wants to defund women’s health care that’s the number one issue but at the same time, I don’t think any Americans' tax dollars should go toward procedures like abortion they find morally wrong. So there’s where the fault-line occurs. So if Planned Parenthood wants funding, they should separate their women’s health care services from their abortion services. I know they say they’ve done that, but money’s fungible so it’s still an issue.

Frederica Freyberg:

Related to the ACA Medicare, Speaker Ryan wants a premium support voucher plan. What’s your position on that kind of change?

Ron Johnson:

I would like to shift as much as we possibly can of health care decisions back to the states. Quite honestly as much of governance back to the states, where government is more effective, efficient and accountable. That’s certainly be one of the areas I'd like to see over time in an evolving type of fashion evolve or devolve those powers and that type of governing back to the states. I think it would be more effective.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about the premium support idea of it, kind of a voucher?

Ron Johnson:

Again, from my standpoint when you start block granting dollars back to the states, states can determine how they actually want to utilize those dollars. Let’s the states decide a lot of those issues.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, moving to something different, as you know, both the CIA and FBI say they have confirmed Russia was behind hacking involving the U.S. election. President-elect Trump does not take this seriously. How seriously do you take it?

Ron Johnson:

I take it very seriously and I've been ahead of the curve on this one. As Chairman of the European Subcommittee of Foreign Relations we’ve held a number of hearings on Russia’s propaganda campaigns, their disinformation campaigns, how they’re trying to destabilize certainly eastern European countries. But just their involvement, destabilization efforts around the world. So this is a very serious issue. I’m also very concerned about the leaking coming out of the intelligence community. I’m not happy with the fact that looks like there’s going to be a disconnect between the incoming administration and the intelligence community. That issue has to be repaired quickly because the next administration has to have good intelligence to keep this nation safe.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, you’ve sponsored several resolutions relating to Russia and its president, Vladimir Putin, including one calling for a full investigation into the murder of a Russian opposition leader and one concerning Russia's attacks in Ukraine. Do you think the U.S. should be complimenting Putin for his leadership and his smarts?

Ron Johnson:

I'm very wary of Vladimir Putin. There have been close to 30 suspicious political assassinations since he’s taken power. Obviously he invaded Georgia, Crimea, eastern Ukraine. I think Russia is probably responsible for the shooting down of an airliner. I wish, I wish Russia was a friendly rival as opposed to an unfriendly adversary. I don’t want them to become an enemy. So we have to understand the reality of the situation. There’s about more than 15,000 nuclear warheads in the world. Russia has more than 7,000 of those. We have little less than 7,000. So they are a superpower by that measure alone. He is the head of that nation right now. We’re going to have to deal with him, but we have to deal with him from a position of strength, which is one of the resolutions I supported, proposed and had passed was one to provide $300 million of lethal defensive weaponry to the nation of Ukraine so they could defend their territory, integrity. Again, we need to address Russia from a standpoint of realistically looking at who they are, what they’ve done. But we have to address them from a position of strength and resolve.

Frederica Freyberg:

What's your opinion of Rex Tillerson for secretary of state with his ties to Russia?

Ron Johnson:

I think he actually is an outstanding selection. His background globally, his experience in the energy field, his relationship with world leaders around the globe in a very detailed fashion of working on oil exploration and other things. I think he really has an excellent background and experience level. I have no doubt that he will be loyal to the United States of America. When he was CEO of Exxon he had one role. As secretary of state, he’ll have a different role. I don’t have any doubt that he can fill that role.

Frederica Freyberg:

Back to your wariness of Vladimir Putin and Russia. It seems that you are parting ways with the president-elect on this?

Ron Johnson:

I don’t think so. I think an awful lot of people are making an awful lot of assumptions about what the president-elect’s policies are going to be toward Russia. Let him become president. Let him have his cabinet confirmed and then let’s see how he governs. Certainly our role in the Senate is provide him as much information, hold hearings, lay out the reality of the situation and hopefully based on that reality he’ll react appropriately.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We leave it there. Senator Ron Johnson, thank you very much.

Ron Johnson:

Have a good day.