Frederica Freyberg:

As we forecast, Senate Minority Leader Jennifer Shilling joins us in La Crosse. She opposes the bill that passed in the Senate on a party line vote. Thanks very much for being here.

Jennifer Shilling:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what is your opposition to this bill?

Jennifer Shilling:

Well, the waters of Wisconsin belong to everyone. I mean, that is just a paramount belief that we hold here with the public trust doctrine. And the idea that privatizing access to Wisconsin's water is deeply troubling. It becomes a fairness issue, first of all, but also some concerns with the Department of Natural Resources really lessening the regulation of those high-capacity wells and the renewal of permits. So the idea that a permit will be forever and will transfer with property ownership, there’s certainly a concern with neighboring properties that are not taken into account about the use of these high-capacity wells that can pump hundreds of thousands of gallons of water a day. And there’s certainly a way to find a balance. And this bill did not seek that middle ground and that balance that is really needed for all property owners here in Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

Wisconsin is a major producer of the kinds of crops that use these high-capacity wells for irrigation as well as large dairy operations that use them in their production, as you know. Now, Senator Fitzgerald calls this a pro-farm measure. What about that?

Jennifer Shilling:

Well, I think as you talk to some of the small family farms, that they are going to be concerned that these larger farms, the corporate farms, will be — will have that greater access to water. And so as streams are lessening the flow, as wells may be contaminated or drying up, we are seeing a drop in water level in lakes, and people’s property value is decreasing, that those are some concerns that we are also hearing about. So, again, I think through legislation that Senator Mark Miller has put forward that restores really a balance of how every ten years we could be looking at these permits for renewal and looking at what that greater impact is in the region on water levels.

Frederica Freyberg:

What have you heard aside from property owners from environmentalists about their concerns over this bill?

Jennifer Shilling:

Well, they are concerned about the contamination. They are concerned about Wisconsin really has an abundance of fresh, clean water here in the state. And as we look at the high-capacity well issue and certainly it is something in Central Sands, that is an area in central Wisconsin with a concern. But also the Driftless Area and Kewaunee County as well. They are having issues with the Karst. So this really as we look at central Wisconsin the issues that they have there, but water issues in general really is a statewide issue and access to clean drinking water.

Frederica Freyberg:

You said you think the bill undermines the public trust doctrine. How so?

Jennifer Shilling:

Well, that in the Constitution, again, those waterways belong to everyone. So the idea that someone with a permit can monopolize or on the floor one of my colleagues talked about stealing their neighbor’s water, that that idea just again I think flies in the face of that public ownership of the waterways and access to waterways.

Frederica Freyberg:

So would this measure if passed into law be subject to a test in the courts because of that?

Jennifer Shilling:

Well, and I think that that is something, if I can see around corners, that I would not be surprised, if this is something that is contested in the courts. We’ve had some previous cases dealing with access to the waterways in the state. So I fully intend — or fully expect that this possibly could be headed towards the courts.

Frederica Freyberg:

As long as I have you here, I wanted to ask you a couple budget items. What do democrats want to see on transportation now that we learned that Joint Finance will start from scratch on this?

Jennifer Shilling:

Well, we definitely have known that there’s been some tension among the majority party and the governor on transportation, that both parties have been asking for some stronger leadership from the governor on transportation. The idea now that the Finance Committee is going to go off of kind of the base budget rather than the governor’s recommendations, which was more borrowing and delaying projects, that I certainly think we can have a conversation about where we need to diversify a funding mechanism in this state. What we immediate to do to invest and have safe roads and bridges and a transportation network system that I think is important for all parts of the state, not just a certain region.

Frederica Freyberg:

Where are you on self-insurance for the state?

Jennifer Shilling:

Well, I've been very skeptical about that from the beginning, when the governor was kind of floating that idea, even last year, about looking for requests for proposals for that. And I think both sides of the aisle resoundly sounded like they rejected that idea when it was brought up by agency briefings last week, that it continues to have some — that people in both parties are skeptical about the savings that the governor had talked about and that it could actually cost the state $100 million and be disruptive to the insurance market here in Wisconsin. So I am highly skeptical that that is going to survive and move forward. In fact, I think that that issue is basically kind of dead.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We leave it there. Senator Jennifer Shilling, thank you very much for joining us.

Jennifer Shilling:

Thank you.