Here & Now

Johnson Discusses Supreme Court Decisions On Marriage, ACA

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

I SPOKE WITH SENATOR BALDWIN EARLIER TODAY. JOINING US NOW TO REVIEW THIS BUSY WEEK AT THE U.S. SUPREME COURT, REPUBLICAN U.S. SENATOR RON JOHNSON. HE’S IN MILWAUKEE. AND, SENATOR, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

RON JOHNSON:

HELLO, FREDERICA. HOW YOU DOING?

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

GREAT. I WANTED TO GET YOUR REACTION TO THE HIGH COURT OPINION RULING THAT GAY COUPLES CAN MARRY IN ALL STATES.

RON JOHNSON:

WELL, I WASN’T SURPRISED. I THINK THIS IS KIND OF THE DIRECTION THINGS HAVE BEEN HEADING. THERE’S BEEN A REAL PROBLEM WITH DIFFERENT LAWS IN DIFFERENT STATES, AND SO I THINK THE SUPREME COURT WAS GOING TO RULE ON IT. AND I’M JUST HOPING THAT WE AS A NATION CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH SOME REAL CIVILITY, BUT ALSO A COMMITMENT TO RELIGIOUS FREEDOM AND LIBERTY, MAKE SURE WE RESPECT THAT AS WELL.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO THE HIGH COURT SAYS THAT MARRIAGE IS A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT AND THAT GAY COUPLES CANNOT BE DEPRIVED OF IT. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT AS WELL?

RON JOHNSON:

I CERTAINLY BELIEVE IN TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE BETWEEN ONE MAN AND A WOMAN, BUT THE SUPREME COURT HAS SPOKEN. AND, AGAIN, I REALLY DO HOPE THAT THIS IS NOW GOING TO BE BEHIND US AND LET’S MOVE FORWARD WITH CIVILITY, BUT, AGAIN, A REAL COMMITMENT TO RELIGIOUS LIBERTY AND FREEDOM. I THINK THAT IS GOING TO BE AN ISSUE AND I HOPE WE CAN MOVE FORWARD PROPERLY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

OKAY. AS FOR THE HIGH COURT RULING ON THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, YOU DESCRIBED THIS AS INCREDIBLY DISAPPOINTING. HOW SO?

RON JOHNSON:

IT WAS. IT WAS SHOCKING. I DON’T KNOW HOW TRAINED LAWYERS AND JUDGES THAT HAVE RISEN TO THE SUPREME COURT CAN LOOK AT A LAW, READ IT WHEN IT SAYS SUBSIDIES CAN FLOW THROUGH EXCHANGES ESTABLISHED BY THE STATE AND CHANGE THAT LAW. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS READ JUSTICE SCALIA’S SCATHING DISSENTING OPINION AND I THINK IT PRETTY WELL LAYS OUT HOW FLIMSY THE MAJORITY OPINION WAS. SO I’M HIGHLY DISAPPOINTED BY IT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

THE MAJORITY OPINION, HOWEVER, SAID THAT THEY DID NOT THINK THAT WAS THE INTENT, YOU KNOW, THAT THE INTENT WAS TO ALLOW THIS.

RON JOHNSON:

WELL, LISTEN. THIS IS A VICTORY FOR BIG GOVERNMENT. I THINK IT’S A STUNNING DEFEAT FOR THE RULE OF LAW BECAUSE I DON’T THINK THERE’S ANY WAY YOU CAN TAKE A LOOK AT THE LEGISLATIVE HISTORY, LISTEN TO PEOPLE THAT — LIKE JOHNSON GRUBBER, WHO WAS FAR MORE INVOLVED IN THE CRAFTING OF THIS LAW THAN THE ADMINISTRATION IS WILLING TO REALLY ADMIT. THE INTENT WAS TO ALLOW THE SUBSIDIES TO FLOW ONLY THROUGH THE STATE EXCHANGES TO COERCE THE STATES TO ESTABLISH AN EXCHANGE. I THINK THE INTENT WAS RATHER CLEAR. YOU’VE GOT TO GO THROUGH — AND THE COURT DID, THE MAJORITY DID GO THROUGH SOME REAL MENTAL GYMNASTICS TO COME TO THEIR, REACH THEIR CONCLUSION. BUT, AGAIN, I WOULD REALLY REFER PEOPLE TO JUSTICE SCALIA’S DISSENT. I THINK THAT’S CERTAINLY THE MORE COGENT ONE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE UP TO 180,000 PEOPLE IN WISCONSIN WHO ARE ENROLLED IN THAT FEDERAL MARKETPLACE IN PLANS IN THAT MARKETPLACE? WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD DO FOR HEALTH CARE IF NOT THAT? I MEAN, I KNOW THAT’S NOT THE QUESTION NOW, TODAY, AFTER THAT RULING, BUT WHAT ABOUT THOSE 180,000 PEOPLE WHO DID SIGN UP?

RON JOHNSON:

WELL, THAT’S THE WHOLE REASON THAT I INTRODUCED A PRETTY SIMPLE PIECE OF LEGISLATION CALLED PRESERVING FREEDOM AND CHOICE IN HEALTH CARE A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO THAT RECOGNIZED THAT THE TURMOIL, THE CHAOS THAT WOULD HAVE ENSUED IF THE SUPREME COURT WOULD HAVE RULED AS THE LAW WAS CLEARLY WRITTEN. BASICALLY WHAT I SAID IS IF YOU HAVE A HEALTH CARE PLAN, IF YOU LIKE YOUR HEALTH CARE PLAN, YOU CAN KEEP IT, EVEN OBAMACARE, EVEN YOUR SUBSIDY, THROUGH AUGUST OF 2017 WAS MY PROPOSAL. THAT WOULD HAVE SET UP THE 2016 ELECTION AS A DISCUSSION, A DEBATE, HOPEFULLY THE MANDATE. ALLOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, ALLOW THE PEOPLE OF WISCONSIN INPUT INTO WHAT OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM WOULD LOOK LIKE BEYOND THE 2016 ELECTION. I THOUGHT THAT WAS PRETTY FAIR. ALL I WOULD HAVE ASKED IN EXCHANGE WOULD HAVE BEEN A LITTLE PRESERVING SOME FREEDOM, ELIMINATE THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE, GET THE GOVERNMENT-ER, THE FEDERAL– THE IRS OUT OF THE BUSINESS OF FINING AMERICANS. LET’S STOP FORCING AMERICANS INTO PART-TIME WORK. WE WOULD HAVE ELIMINATED THE EMPLOYER MANDATE. LET’S STOP ARTIFICIALLY DRIVING UP THE COST OF HEALTH CARE WITH THESE EXPENSIVE MANDATED COVERAGES. YOU KNOW FREDERICA, I REALLY DON’T NEED MATERNITY COVERAGE. SO I WOULD HAVE TURNED THOSE COVERAGE DECISIONS BACK OVER TO INDIVIDUALS AND THE STATES. I THOUGHT THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A PRETTY REASONABLE PROPOSAL. LISTEN, REPUBLICANS WANT EVERYBODY TO HAVE ACCESS TO AFFORDABLE CARE. THE PROBLEM WITH OBAMACARE, IS BECAUSE OF THOSE MANDATED COVERAGES, BECAUSE OF THE COERCIVE NATURE OF IT, INSURANCE RATES ARE SKYROCKETING. THE ONLY PEOPLE BENEFITING FROM OBAMACARE RIGHT NOW ARE THOSE PEOPLE WITH TAXPAYER SUBSIDIES. SO AGAIN, THIS IS A VICTORY FOR BIG GOVERNMENT. A STUNNING BLOW – DEFEAT TO THE RULE OF LAW, AND IT’S NOT GOING TO BE GOOD FOR HARD-WORKING WISCONSIN TAXPAYERS WHO ARE GOING TO BE FOOTING THE BILL.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT’S YOUR POSITION ON WISCONSIN ACCEPTING THE EXPANDED MEDICAID DOLLARS THAT ARE PART OF THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT?

RON JOHNSON:

I SUPPORT GOVERNOR WALKER’S DECISION NOT TO ESTABLISH A STATE EXCHANGE. SO NOW WE HAVE THE FEDERAL EXCHANGE. AND I THINK ANYBODY HAS TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT MORE PEOPLE MOVING INTO MEDICAID WHERE WE DON’T HAVE ADEQUATE REIMBURSEMENTS AND AS A RESULT DOCTORS — NOT ENOUGH DOCTORS ARE REALLY EVEN SEEING MEDICAID PATIENTS. SO THESE GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE SYSTEMS ARE A REAL PROBLEM. IF ANYBODY WANTS TO REALLY ENVISION WHAT OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE, THEY NEED — THEY DON’T HAVE TO GO ANY FURTHER THAN LOOK AT THE VA SYSTEM. THAT’S A GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. IT’S NOT DOING A VERY GOOD JOB.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

GOVERNOR WALKER CALLS ON CONGRESSIONAL REPUBLICANS TO REDOUBLE THEIR EFFORTS TO REPEAL OBAMACARE. WHAT IS THE NEXT CHALLENGE TO THE LAW?

RON JOHNSON:

WELL, THAT’S GOING TO BE HARD TO SAY. WE REALLY CAN’T REPEAL IT THROUGH RECONCILIATION PROCESS. I THINK THERE’S MISINFORMATION ABOUT THAT. OBAMACARE WAS NOT PASSED IN BUDGET RECONCILIATION WITH EXPEDIATED PROCEDURES. IT WAS PASSED WITH 60 VOTES. I KNOW THE PERSON THAT I REPLACED – SENATOR FEINGOLD – WAS ONE OF THOSE 60 DECIDING VOTES. WE’RE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT PARTS OF THE LAW WE COULD PASS UNDER RECONCILIATION, PUT THOSE REPEALS — ELIMINATE SOME OF THE BAD THINGS, GET THAT ON PRESIDENT OBAMA’S DESK. BUT IT IS REALLY GOING TO BE INCUMBENT ON THE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE TO REALLY LAY FORWARD WHAT OUR REPLACEMENT WOULD LOOK LIKE AND LET THE PEOPLE OF AMERICA, THE PEOPLE OF WISCONSIN DECIDE WHAT DIRECTION THEIR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM WILL TAKE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SENATOR RON JOHNSON, THANKS VERY MUCH AGAIN FOR JOINING US.

RON JOHNSON:

HAVE A GREAT DAY.