FREDERICA FREYBERG:

A NEW STUDY BY THE WISCONSIN BUDGET PROJECT SHOWS THAT SINCE JULY OF 2011, 31 SCHOOL DISTRICTS HAVE PASSED REFERENDA WITHIN TWO YEARS OF ONE BEING REJECTED. REPRESENTING $196 MILLION IN VOTER APPROVED REVENUES. UNDER DUEY STROEBEL’S BILL, THOSE REFERENDA WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED. OUR NEXT GUEST IS SUPERINTENDENT OF NEILLSVILLE SCHOOLS. JOHN GAIER OPPOSES THE BILL. SUPERINTENDENT, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

JOHN GAIER:

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

NOW I UNDERSTAND THAT NEILLSVILLE HAS NOT GONE TO REFERENDUM SINCE 2009. YOUR DISTRICT DOESN’T SEEM TO NEED THESE EXTRA RESOURCES, NOT LATELY, ANYWAY. WHY ARE YOU OPPOSED TO THE RESTRICTIONS?

JOHN GAIER:

WELL, SINCE THE 90S, NEILLSVILLE HAS HAD A NUMBER OF REFERENDA THAT WE NEEDED FOR OPERATIONS AND FOR IMPROVEMENTS OF OUR FACILITIES. THIS SEEMS TO ME TO BE A TAKEAWAY OF LOCAL CONTROL FOR THE VOTERS THAT I DON’T THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR. I DON’T BELIEVE SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO REFERENDA BECAUSE THEY ENJOY DOING THAT. I THINK THEY DO IT BECAUSE THEY NEED TO DO THAT. AND I THINK THE GROWING NUMBER OF REFERENDA IS PROOF THAT SCHOOLS ARE BECOMING MORE DESPERATE, ESPECIALLY OUR RURAL SCHOOLS. THE DPI HAS DONE A — TRACKED REFERENDA SINCE THE EARLY 90S WHEN REVENUE CAPS CAME IN AND 80% OF THE REFERENDA THAT IS BEING PROPOSED ACROSS THE STATE HAS BEEN PROPOSED IN RURAL DISTRICTS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHY IS IT THAT RURAL DISTRICTS ARE PARTICULARLY HIT?

JOHN GAIER:

WELL, THEY DON’T HAVE THE ECONOMIC BASES THAT OTHER DISTRICTS MAY HAVE. ALSO BECAUSE OF DECLINING ENROLLMENTS THAT AFFECT MANY RURAL DISTRICTS. ANY TIME THAT YOU HAVE DECLINING ENROLLMENTS, YOU HAVE DECLINING FUNDS. WE HAVE DISTRICTS ACROSS THIS STATE THAT ARE TRYING TO DO THEIR VERY BEST TO PROVIDE THE 21ST CENTURY HIGH QUALITY EDUCATION FOR THEIR STUDENTS. AND IT TAKES MONEY TO DO THAT. AND WITH THE DEFUNDING THAT’S HAPPENED IN PUBLIC EDUCATION AND THE FREEZING OF GENERAL AID, IT MAKES IT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR DISTRICTS TO MEET ITS BUDGETARY NEEDS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT WOULD BE THE KINDS OF OUTCOMES IN DISTRICTS WHOSE REFERENDUMS ARE REJECTED IF THEY HAVE TO WAIT FOR TWO YEARS BEFORE ANOTHER VOTE?

JOHN GAIER:

WELL, CLEARLY, IF DISTRICTS — IF YOU HAVE — YOU CITED THE DISTRICTS THAT HAD TO GO BACK WITHIN TWO YEARS. THEY’RE DISTRICTS THAT CLEARLY CAN’T SURVIVE AT LEAST WITHOUT BECOMING EDUCATIONALLY BANKRUPT WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO GO BACK AND PASS THOSE REFERENDUMS. ONE THING I’VE THOUGHT ABOUT IS, WHAT IF A DISTRICT DID THEIR DUE DILIGENCE ABOUT NEEDING A NEW BOILER SYSTEM FOR AN AGING DISTRICT. SO THEY WENT TO REFERENDUM FOR $500,000 TO REPLACE THAT BOILER SYSTEM. AND IT WAS REJECTED. AND THEN THREE MONTHS LATER, THE BOILERS BREAK DOWN. SO NOW THEY HAVE TO REPLACE THOSE BOILERS. BUT THEY CAN’T GO BACK FOR TWO YEARS FOR A REFERENDUM TO FIX THOSE BOILERS. THAT MEANS THAT THE MONEY HAS TO COME OUT OF THE EXISTING BUDGET, WHICH COULD LEAD UP TO FIVE OR SIX TEACHER LAYOFFS. AND IN RURAL DISTRICTS, A TEACHER LAYOFF COULD MEAN THE END OF A PROGRAM.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT ABOUT THE ARGUMENT THE VOTERS SUFFER FATIGUE WHEN REFERENDA COME UP SO OFTEN AND MAYBE EITHER DON’T BOTHER TO VOTE OR THEY DON’T VOTE BECAUSE IT’S NOT DURING THE REGULAR ELECTION, SO THE OUTCOME ISN’T NECESSARILY REPRESENTATIVE?

JOHN GAIER:

I THINK STATISTICALLY IT SHOWS THAT MOST REFERENDA ARE DONE DURING REGULAR ELECTIONS. I DON’T THINK MOST PEOPLE WOULD BE OPPOSED TO THAT. I DON’T THINK THERE’S ANY DISTRICT THAT’S TRYING TO SLIDE SOMETHING BY THEIR VOTERS. I THINK I HAVE NEVER IN MY EXPERIENCE WITH FIVE OR SIX REFERENDA IN MY CAREER EVER HAD VOTERS SAY THAT THEY WERE FATIGUED. TO ME, IT GIVES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO CONNECT WITH OUR COMMUNITIES. TO TALK ABOUT WHAT’S GOING ON IN OUR LOCAL DISTRICTS. AND OUR PEOPLE SEEM TO APPRECIATE THAT. TO THINK THAT VOTERS ARE WEARING DOWN OR WANT TO GIVE UP THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE, TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR THEIR SCHOOLS, WHICH IN MANY CASES IN RURAL SCHOOLS ARE THEIR COMMUNITY CENTERS, OR AT LEAST HAVING THE SAY ABOUT THAT TAKEN AWAY, I JUST DON’T THINK THAT’S SOMETHING VOTERS ARE ASKING FOR.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, THE RESIDENTS AND TAXPAYERS WANT THE SCHOOLS TO UPGRADE OR MEET OPERATIONAL NEEDS EVEN IF IT MEANS HIGHER TAXES?

JOHN GAIER:

CLEARLY, WHAT’S HAPPENING IS THERE IS AN INCREASING NUMBER OF REFERENDA THAT ARE SUCCESSFUL. I THINK THAT IS AN INDICATOR THAT PEOPLE AND COMMUNITIES LOVE THEIR PUBLIC SCHOOLS. AND THEY WANT OPPORTUNITIES FOR THEIR CHILDREN TO HAVE A HIGH QUALITY 21ST CENTURY EDUCATION. AND I APPLAUD THE LOCAL COMMUNITIES THAT WILL DO THAT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SUPERINTENDENT JOHN GAIER, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

JOHN GAIER:

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.