Here & Now

Rep. Sargent Defends Bill Banning Guns On Campuses

KARINA VIRRUETA:

IT’S JUST SCARY. IT’S SCARY THINKING ABOUT GUNS ON CAMPUS AND IN THE DORMS, ESPECIALLY ON THIS CAMPUS. THERE’S A LOT OF PRESSURE TO DO WELL. PEOPLE GET STRESSED OUT. YOU JUST NEVER KNOW. I DON’T KNOW IF THAT’S THE ANSWER.

RYAN GLASER:

WELL I THINK IF THERE’S A TREND WITH UNIVERSITIES THAT LIKE HAVE A PROPOSAL SUCH AS THIS AND THEY HAVEN’T HAD ANY INCIDENTS SUCH AS THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN OCCURRING RECENTLY, I GUESS I DON’T SEE A PROBLEM WITH THAT BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO DO HAVE CONCEALED CARRY PERMITS DID GO THROUGH THE NECESSARY TRAINING TO YOU KNOW BE ABLE TO HANDLE A WEAPONS.

EVAN CRAWFORD:

I FAIL TO SEE HOW ALLOWING MORE GUNS ON CAMPUS WOULD MAKE ME FEEL ANY SAFER. I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE’S — I JUST HAVEN’T SEEN ANY EVIDENCE THAT THAT’S GOING TO HELP. I ALSO PERSONALLY IN ANY CLASSROOM WOULD FEEL LESS SAFE JUST WITH NOW NOT KNOWING, LIKE, OH, ANYBODY COULD HAVE A GUN. AND ALSO IT INCREASES THE PROBABILITY THAT EVEN LIKE ACCIDENTS HAPPEN OR THINGS GO OFF THAT AREN’T SUPPOSED TO.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

DEMOCRATS IN THE STATE LEGISLATURE QUICKLY DRAFTED A BILL IN RESPONSE TO THE CAMPUS CARRY MEASURE. THEIR VERSION WOULD NOT ONLY PROHIBIT POSSESSION OF FIREARMS ON CAMPUS, IT WOULD MAKE POSSESSION A CLASS ONE FELONY. MADISON DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE MELISSA SARGENT IS ONE OF THE COSPONSORS. REPRESENTATIVE THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

MELISSA SARGENT:

THANK YOU.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO I KNOW THAT YOUR BILL IS THE POLICY REACTION TO THIS CAMPUS CARRY, BUT WHEN YOU SAW THE REPUBLICAN PROPOSAL, WHAT WAS YOUR GUT REACTION TO IT?

MELISSA SARGENT:

I’M A MOM. I’VE GOT FOUR SONS. AND MY OLDEST IS GOING TO BE GOING TO COLLEGE NEXT YEAR. MY FAMILY IS ALSO A HUNTING FAMILY. SO WE OWN GUNS. AND I VERY MUCH BELIEVE IN THE SECOND AMENDMENT AND BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO BE PROTECTING THAT. BUT I ALSO BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO BE PROVIDING THE UTMOST SECURITY AND SAFETY FOR OUR CHILDREN AND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE EDUCATING THEM. AND I VERY MUCH KNOW IN MY HEART THAT THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION IS MOVING US IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

NOW, REPRESENTATIVE KREMER SAYS THAT STUDENTS NOT BEING ALLOWED TO CARRY A GUN-ARM THEMSELVES-MAKE THEMSELVES SOFT TARGETS AND THEREFORE ATTRACT THUGS AND CRIMINALS, HE SAYS, TO HARM THEM. WHAT ABOUT THAT PERSUASION?

MELISSA SARGENT:

YOU KNOW, THAT’S FEAR-BASED. AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WHAT WE’RE DOING IS NOT MOVING FORWARD WITH FEAR. WHEN OUR KIDS ARE GOING TO COLLEGE AND WHEN OUR SPOUSES ARE AT THE COLLEGES TEACHING OUR KIDS, THEY NEED TO BE FOCUSING ON THEIR TASK AT HAND, EDUCATING AND LEARNING. AND THAT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN THERE’S MORE GUNS ADDED TO THE MIX. IT’S ACTUALLY GOING TO MAKE OUR KIDS LESS SAFE. AND WE NEED TO STOP HAVING THESE FEAR-BASED CONVERSATIONS. UNFORTUNATELY, THERE’S AN AWFUL LOT OF MONEY BEHIND GUNS, AND IT’S TAKING OVER. AND THIS IS A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS AS FAR AS I’M CONCERNED.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

REPRESENTATIVE KREMER ALSO SAYS THAT, WHEN ASKED, HE HEARD FROM A CONSTITUENT, A PROFESSOR AT UW-STEVENS POINT, WHO SAID THAT HE’D LIKE TO BE ABLE TO CARRY A GUN IN THE CLASSROOM. WHAT ARE YOUR CONSTITUENTS TELLING YOU?

MELISSA SARGENT:

WELL I’VE HAD TEACHERS AND PROFESSORS AND STUDENTS AND SPOUSES OF STUDENTS AND SPOUSES OF PROFESSORS AND POLICE OFFICERS REACHING OUT TO MY OFFICE THIS WEEK, TELLING US WE NEED TO DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR CAMPUSES ARE AS SECURE AND SAFE AS POSSIBLE. AND THAT INTRODUCING GUNS ONTO CAMPUSES MOVES US IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF ALLOWING GUNS IN PLACES LIKE CAMP RANDALL AND IN DORM ROOMS OR DORMS?

MELISSA SARGENT:

IT’S TERRIFYING TO ME. I MEAN, WE JUST LAST WEEK HAD AN INCIDENT IN CAMP RANDALL, I BELIEVE, WHERE THERE WAS BATTERY. THAT HAPPENS AFTER NEARLY EVERY FOOTBALL GAME. AND JUST IMAGINE INTRODUCING GUNS INTO THOSE HEIGHTENED SITUATIONS. COLLEGE IS NOT EASY. I REMEMBER BEING A STUDENT ON THIS CAMPUS, AND THERE’S A LOT OF STRESS. AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE’RE SUPPORTING OUR KIDS AND SUPPORTING THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SUPPORTING THEM IN HEALTHY WAYS AND INTRODUCING GUNS IS NOT A HEALTHY WAY TO SUPPORT THEM.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE BEEN ASKING ABOUT KIND OF THE MIX OF ALCOHOL AND DRUNKENNESS, WHICH WE KNOW IS FAIRLY COMMON ON THIS CAMPUS AND OTHERS, WITH GUNS. WHAT ABOUT THAT?

MELISSA SARGENT:

THAT’S TERRIFYING. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO ARE USING GUNS ARE USING THEM IN THOUGHTFUL, MEASURED WAYS. AND IF YOU’RE GOING OUT TO TARGET PRACTICE OR YOU’RE GOING HUNTING, YOU’RE NOT WALKING AROUND ON CAMPUS. I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT WHERE WOULD THE AMMUNITION BE? ARE WE THEN HAVING LOADED GUNS IN PEOPLE’S BACKPACKS? THIS IS FRIGHTENING.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

PRESUMABLY THEY WOULD BE LOADED BECAUSE OTHERWISE WHY WOULD YOU HAVE A CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT, RIGHT?

MELISSA SARGENT:

THEN YOU HAVE THE THREAT OF ACCIDENTS. YOU KNOW, YOU HEAR ABOUT IT QUITE FREQUENTLY. SOMEONE GETS SHOT AT TARGET BECAUSE THEIR KID REACHES INTO THEIR PURSE. ACCIDENTS HAPPEN.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WOULD YOUR BILL GO FURTHER THAN CURRENT LAW THAT ALLOWS PEOPLE TO CARRY GUNS ON CAMPUS GROUNDS AND BAN THEM EVEN ON, YOU KNOW, CAMPUS PROPERTY?

MELISSA SARGENT:

IT WOULD — THE BILL TAKES CARE OF ALL THE CAMPUSES, YES.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

GIVEN YOUR POSITION ON THIS ISSUE, WHAT’S YOUR TAKE ON WHETHER THE UW SYSTEM HAS COME OUT STRONG ENOUGH ON THIS?

MELISSA SARGENT:

WELL, I THINK WE’VE HEARD FROM THE UNIVERSITY POLICE DEPARTMENT AND I’VE HEARD FROM CAMPUSES AND PROFESSORS — STUDENTS AND PROFESSORS ON OUR CAMPUS HERE IN MADISON, AS WELL AS CAMPUSES — MATC, WHICH IS IN MY DISTRICT AND CAMPUSES ACROSS THE STATE OF WISCONSIN. AND UNEQUIVOCALLY THEY’RE SAYING THAT THEY DO NOT SUPPORT THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT’S BEEN INTRODUCED BY MY COLLEAGUE, REPRESENTATIVE KREMER. AND THEY WANT TO BE SECURE AND SAFE AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO NOT HAVE FIREARMS ON OUR CAMPUSES IN ANY WAY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

UW SYSTEM PRESIDENT RAY CROSS HAS SAID THAT AT THIS POINT HE DOESN’T SUPPORT IT AND THAT THEY ARE SEEKING ADDITIONAL FLEXIBILITIES. SO IT SOUNDS AS THOUGH THEY’RE WILLING TO WORK WITH THE DRAFTERS OF THE REPUBLICAN BILL. IN YOUR MIND, IS THAT OKAY?

MELISSA SARGENT:

I THINK THAT’S A MISTAKE. I THINK THAT EVERYONE DESERVES TO BE FREE TO HAVE GUNS IN OUR COUNTRY, THAT IT IS PROTECTED IN OUR CONSTITUTION, BUT THAT EDUCATIONAL FACILITIES ARE NOT WHERE GUNS SHOULD BE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

MELISSA SARGENT, THANKS VERY MUCH.

MELISSA SARGENT:

THANK YOU.