Here & Now

Rep David Craig Discusses Proposal To Abolish LAB

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
NOW TO OTHER STATE CAPITAL NEWS THIS WEEK. A PAIR OF REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS WANT TO DITCH NONPARTISAN AUDITORS IN FAVOR OF APPOINTED IN-HOUSE ENFORCERS. UNDER THEIR PROPOSAL, THE LEGISLATIVE AUDIT BUREAU WOULD GO. IN ITS PLACE WOULD BE INSPECTORS GENERAL PLACED INSIDE STATE AGENCIES AND REPORTING TO THE LEGISLATURE ABOUT WASTE AND FRAUD. REPUBLICAN STATE REPRESENTATIVE DAVID CRAIG IS LEAD AUTHOR OF THE BILL. WE CAUGHT UP WITH HIM AT HIS CAPITOL OFFICE AND ASKED HIM ABOUT HIS PROPOSAL.

DAVID CRAIG:
SO WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS TAKE — AND I’LL SAY FROM THE OUTSET I THINK THAT THE AUDIT BUREAU DOES A FINE JOB OF WHAT THEY ARE STATUTORILY CHARGED WITH DOING. IT’S THE PROCESS THAT I HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT. AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS WE HAVE AN AUDIT BUREAU THAT RESPONDS TO THE LEGISLATIVE AUDIT COMMITTEE. IF THE LEGISLATIVE AUDIT COMMITTEE ACTS AND ORDERS THEM TO AUDIT A PROGRAM IN STATE GOVERNMENT, THEY BEGIN THIS PROCESS. IT’S USUALLY A SITUATION WHERE THEY’RE RESPONDING TO MAYBE A MEDIA STORY OR A CONSTITUENT COMPLAINT, AND IT COULD TAKE MONTHS, IF NOT OVER A YEAR BEFORE THAT AUDIT COMES BACK TO THE LEGISLATURE AND THEN WE START TO TALK ABOUT POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS. IN MY MIND, THAT’S TOO SLOW. IN SOME SITUATIONS, A WHOLE NEW LEGISLATURE COULD HAVE TAKEN OVER WHO IS TOTALLY DETACHED FROM WHEN THE PROBLEM WAS FIRST REPORTED, AND I THINK IT SLOWS DOWN OUR ABILITY TO CHANGE POORLY-FUNCTIONING AREAS OF STATE GOVERNMENT, WHICH I THINK THAT THERE IS. SO THE INSPECTORS GENERAL, THE IDEA THAT WE CAME UP WITH WAS TAKING THE LEGISLATIVE AUDIT BUREAU AND WHAT THEY DO AND PUTTING THEM INSIDE THE AGENCIES, NOT ACTING ON BEHALF OF THE AGENCIES OR AS PART OF THE AGENCIES, BUT EMPLOYED BY THE LEGISLATURE, REPORTING TO THE LEGISLATURE, BUT ENSCONCED IN THE STATE AGENCIES TO ACT AS OUR EYES AND EARS, ROOTING OUT WASTE, FRAUD, ABUSE AND OTHER INEFFICIENCIES.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THE CRITICISM THAT THE CURRENT AUDIT BUREAU IS NONPARTISAN AND THESE INSPECTORS GENERAL WOULD BE PARTISAN?

DAVID CRAIG:
SO OUR BILL, WE TOOK GREAT LENGTHS TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE INSPECTORS GENERAL ARE CHOSEN THE SAME WAY THAT THE DIRECTOR OF THE LEGISLATIVE AUDIT BUREAU IS CURRENTLY CHOSEN. SAME AS THE OTHER LEGISLATIVE OFFICES. LEGISLATIVE FISCAL BUREAU. THE LEGISLATIVE AUDIT BUREAU. THE LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL AND THE LEGISLATIVE REFERENCE BUREAU ALL HIRE THE SAME WAY BY THE JOINT COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATIVE ORGANIZATION. SAME WAY WE HIRE THE INSPECTORS GENERAL UNDER THE BILL. ALSO, WHAT WE DO IS WE MAKE SURE THAT THE TERM LENGTH OF EACH OF THOSE IGs, AS WE CALL THEM, IS SIX YEARS, WHICH SUPERSEDS THE LENGTH OF ANY SINGLE GOVERNOR’S TERM AND SEVERAL LEGISLATURE’S TERM TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE INSULATED FROM THE POLITICAL PROCESS AS MUCH AS WE CAN. I MEAN WE LIVE IN A REPUBLIC. THERE’S ALWAYS GOING TO BE PARTY INFLUENCE ON WAY OR THE OTHER, BUT WE WANTED TO INSULATE THAT SPECIFICALLY AND THAT’S HOW WE DID IT IN THE BILL.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
WHAT DOES YOUR PROPOSAL HAVE TO DO WITH THE RECENT CRITICAL AUDIT BY THE LAB ON GOVERNOR WALKER’S SIGNATURE AGENCY – THE WISCONSIN ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION?

DAVID CRAIG:
YEAH. I THINK THE QUESTION IS HOW WOULD OUR BILL HAVE OPERATED DIFFERENTLY. I THINK THERE’S A MESS, FRANKLY, THAT’S BEING SORTED OUT AS WE SPEAK. MY HOPE IS THAT HAVING EYES AND EARS INSIDE THE AGENCIES WOULD HAVE PROACTIVELY, A, DETERRED SOMETHING BAD IF SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED OVER THERE. AND, TWO, WOULD HAVE MADE SURE THERE WAS IMMEDIATE CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE LEGISLATURE TO LET US KNOW THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS AMISS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
WAS THAT AUDIT THOUGH THE MOTIVATION FOR THIS BILL?

DAVID CRAIG:
NO. I’VE BEEN RESEARCHING INSPECTORS GENERAL BOTH IN WASHINGTON D.C. AND OTHER STATES FOR THE BETTER COURSE OF TWO YEARS. I WAS TRYING TO GET AN INSPECTOR GENERAL FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION INTO THE LAST BUDGET TWO YEARS AGO. I WAS UNSUCCESSFUL IN THAT. BUT I’VE BEEN WORKING ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION FOR SOME TIME NOW, AND I THOUGHT BEING IN THE WINDOW OF THE BUDGET THIS WOULD BE A GOOD TIME TO HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW WE CAN SAVE DOLLARS HERE IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
I NOTE THAT IN YOUR BILL IT ALSO ALLOWS ANY PERSON TO GET AN INSPECTOR GENERAL TO REVIEW AN AGENCY THAT THE PERSON FEELS HAS SUBSTANTIALLY WRONGED THEM?

DAVID CRAIG:
YES.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF I DIDN’T LIKE A DNR RULING, I COULD CALL UP THE INSPECTOR GENERAL?

DAVID CRAIG:
THIS IS THE SITUATION. SO SUBSTANTIALLY, YOU KNOW, TOUCHED THEIR SITUATION. I THINK THERE’S PROBABLY A LEVEL OF DEFINITION THAT NEEDS TO BE APPLIED IN THE BILL. AND WE’RE OPEN TO TALKING ABOUT THAT. WHAT WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE IS THERE’S A SITUATION WHERE A STATE AGENCY HAS VIOLATED THE LAW, THAT THE INSPECTOR GENERAL COULD BE AN ARBITER FOR ONE OF OUR CONSTITUENTS THAT WANTS TO CALL THEM AND SAY, HEY, THIS IS WHERE THE STATE AGENCY IS ACTING OUTSIDE THE BOUNDS OF THE LAW. GIVE ME SOME REMEDY. AND BECAUSE THEY’RE AN INDEPENDENT AUTHORITY, THEY’D BE ABLE TO RENDER AN INDEPENDENT DECISION BASED ON THAT AND IT’S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD WORK IN THE LEGISLATURE TO ULTIMATELY REMEDY VIA THE LAW IN CONSULTATION WITH LEGAL COUNSEL IF THAT’S HOW WE WERE ADVISED.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:
ASSEMBLY SPEAKER ROBIN VOS SAYS HE’S NOT IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL, SO WHAT CHANCE DO YOU THINK IT HAS?

DAVID CRAIG:
HE SAID HE WAS NOT IN FAVOR OF ELIMINATING THE AUDIT BUREAU. I THINK THAT THERE IS A GROWING CONCERN FOR THAT SLOW PROCESS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER IN THE LEGISLATURE. I HAD A BRIEF CONVERSATION WITH REPRESENTATIVE BARCA. I IN NO WAY WANT TO SPEAK ON HIS BEHALF, BUT HE SAID HE IS A FAN OF INSPECTORS GENERAL WORKING INSIDE AGENCIES. OUR BASELINE WAS TO MAKE SURE WE DIDN’T HAVE REDUNDANT GOVERNMENT. IN MY MIND, I DON’T THINK THERE’S A NEED FOR BOTH AN OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL AND AN AUDIT BUREAU. BUT IF IT MEANS GETTING A PIECE OF MY LEGISLATION DONE – SOME INSPECTORS GENERAL INTO STATE GOVERNMENT – WHILE STILL MAINTAINING AN AUDIT BUREAU, I HAVE NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT I THINK THE FISCAL BENEFITS OF HAVING INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATORS WOULD PROBABLY MORE THAN PAY FOR WHATEVER COSTS WOULD BE ENTAILED IN THE PROCESS.