FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO WHAT’S AHEAD FOR SCOTT WALKER BACK UNDER THE STATE CAPITOL DOME AND BEYOND? FOR THAT, WE GO TO FORMER STATE LEGISLATOR, NOW PROFESSOR AT UW-MILWAUKEE, MORDECAI LEE, WHO JOINS US FROM MILWAUKEE. AND MORDECAI, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

MORDECAI LEE:

THANK YOU.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO WHAT DO YOU THINK IT’S LIKE FOR SCOTT WALKER TO RETURN TO THE CAPITOL AFTER ALL OF THIS?

MORDECAI LEE:

WELL, I THINK WE HAVE TO DESCRIBE HIM AS SOMETHING OF A STRANGER TO WISCONSIN IN THE SENSE OF THAT WHEN HE WAS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR AND RUNNING FOR REELECTION AS GOVERNOR, HE ONLY TALKED ABOUT ONE ISSUE AND THAT WAS JOB CREATION, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. HE SAID THAT WHEN HE FIRST GOT ELECTED, WHEN HE WANTED TO BE RETAINED FOR THE RECALL AND WHEN HE RAN FOR REELECTION. WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT RIGHT AFTER HE WAS REELECTED LAST NOVEMBER, HE ALREADY PIVOTED AND WAS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. THE BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GOVERNOR WALKER AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE WALKER IS THAT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE WALKER TALKED ABOUT THOSE HOT BUTTON SOCIAL ISSUES THAT HE NEVER TALKED ABOUT IN WISCONSIN, NEVER ADDRESSED. FOR EXAMPLE, IN HIS STUMP SPEECH, HE WOULD BOAST IN IOWA AND OTHER PLACES HOW HE SIGNED A BILL LIMITING ABORTIONS. HE SIGNED A BILL EXPANDING GUN MEASURES AND SO ON. THAT’S A WHOLE NEW PERSONA. WHOLE NEW POLITICAL CANDIDATE FOR WISCONSINITES TO MEET. SO I THINK THAT ONE OF THE REASONS THAT HIS POPULARITY WENT DOWN IS THAT SOME OF THOSE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD SWING VOTERS SUDDENLY SAW A DIFFERENT SCOTT WALKER. SO HE’S GOT SOME WORK TO DO TO REPAIR THAT IMAGE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO WHAT KIND OF FENCE MENDING DO YOU THINK HE DOES HAVE TO DO DURING WHAT OUR LAST GUEST CALLED HIS QUOTE KISS AND MAKEUP TOUR?

MORDECAI LEE:

WELL, I THINK HE NEEDS TO HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY. IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN HE ENDORSED CIVIL SERVICE REFORM, HE WAS PICKING ON A BILL THAT WAS BEING DRAFTED BY LEGISLATORS AND ABOUT TO BE INTRODUCED BY LEGISLATORS. BUT WHAT IS HIS POLICY PLATFORM? ONE MIGHT SAY, WELL, PERHAPS IT’S MORE. MORE GUN MEASURES. MORE LIMITS ON ABORTION. MORE TAX CUTS. I SUSPECT THAT WITH SO MUCH OF THE REPUBLICAN IDEOLOGICAL AGENDA HAVING BEEN ADOPTED IN HIS FIRST TERM, THEN THE QUESTION BECOMES WHAT’S THE SECOND TIER AGENDA? WHAT’S LEFT? WHAT DO THEY WANT TO ACCOMPLISH? HE HAD TALKED, FOR EXAMPLE, ABOUT REORGANIZATION. HE WAS GOING TO MERGE WHEDA WITH WEDC AND THEN HE DROPPED THAT. HE REALLY NEEDS AN AGENDA TO LEAD THE LEGISLATURE RATHER THAN TO FOLLOW THE LEGISLATURE. IN THE SPRING WHEN THE LEGISLATURE PASSED RIGHT TO WORK, IT WAS NOT THE GOVERNOR’S INITIATIVE. IT WAS THE LEGISLATURE’S INITIATIVE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WELL, AND SO IN TERMS OF LEADING THE LEGISLATURE, THOUGH, I MEAN, HE WAS BACK ON THE GROUND LITERALLY IN THE CAPITOL ONE DAY WHEN HE LENT HIS SUPPORT TO THE CIVIL SERVICE CHANGES, BUT PERHAPS THAT CAN KIND OF ADD ON TO HIS SIGNATURE PIECE OF ACT 10. AND HE CAN GO WITH THAT INTO THE BIGGER AND BOLDER NEXT ROUND. BUT ON THAT CIVIL SERVICE, AS I’VE GOT YOU HERE, IN YOUR OPINION ARE THOSE CHANGES WARRANTED?

MORDECAI LEE:

I THINK WE HAVE TO BE REALLY CAREFUL ABOUT BEING TOO GLIB WHEN WE SAY THAT WE WANT GOVERNMENT TO BE AS EFFICIENT AS BUSINESS BECAUSE, AFTER ALL, GOVERNMENT IS DIFFERENT FROM BUSINESS. PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION IS DIFFERENT FROM BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION. FOR EXAMPLE, THINGS LIKE TRANSPARENCY, MERIT-BASED CIVIL SERVICE. SO I THINK WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL IF WE WANT TO ADD TO CIVIL SERVICE PROTECTIONS AND A MERIT-BASED SYSTEM. THE HR POWERS THAT WE GENERALLY ASSUME WOULD BE IN BUSINESS. SO I WOULD DO A RELATIVELY GO SLOW ON THIS. A GOVERNOR, AN EXECUTIVE, SHOULD HAVE HR POWERS, BUT I DON’T THINK WE WANT TO GO BACK TO PATRONAGE AND AT-WILL APPOINTMENTS AND THE ISSUE OF HIRING PEOPLE BASED ON RESUMES. I’VE GOT TO ADMIT I’VE HAD MY OWN SHARE OF PADDED RESUMES. I WOULD NEVER WANT TO DO HIRING JUST BASED ON RESUMES.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AS FOR GOVERNOR WALKER AND THE NEXT TIME AROUND, WHAT IN YOUR ESTIMATION MIGHT THAT BE, GOVERNOR, PRESIDENT, VICE PRESIDENT?

MORDECAI LEE:

WELL, I THINK WE HAVE TO FOCUS INITIALLY JUST ON THE REMAINDER OF HIS TERM BECAUSE IN THE SPRING SESSION THE LEGISLATURE SORT OF TREATED HIM LIKE A LAME DUCK. THEY SORT OF DID WHATEVER THEY WANTED. THEY GOT THE POLITICAL BIT BETWEEN THEIR TEETH. I’M NOT SURE THEY WANT TO CEDE THAT POWER BACK TO HIM. I’M NOT SURE IF THEY WANT TO FALL BACK AND JUST DO WHAT HE SAYS BECAUSE IT’S WHAT WE LEARNED IN HIGH SCHOOL CIVICS – SEPARATION OF POWERS. THE WAY THE WORLD LOOKS TO THE LEGISLATURE, EVEN IF IT’S A CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN ONE, MIGHT BE DIFFERENT FROM THE WAY IT LOOKS TO A CHIEF EXECUTIVE, A GOVERNOR. BUT BEYOND THAT, I’M SURE HE’S NO SARAH PALIN. THERE’S NO DOUBT THAT HE’S GOING TO SERVE OUT HIS TERM. BUT AFTER THAT I’M REALLY NOT SURE. THERE’S A SCENARIO WHERE HE BECOMES A FORMER GOVERNOR AND THEN HE STARTS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT FOR THE NEXT TIME AFTER THAT AS A FORMER GOVERNOR THE WAY RONALD REAGAN DID AND JIMMY CARTER DID. I THINK HE ENJOYS PUBLIC SERVICE. HE ENJOYS POLITICS. BUT IT’S REALLY UNCLEAR WHERE HE GOES FROM HERE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALL RIGHT. MORDECAI LEE, THANKS VERY MUCH.

MORDECAI LEE:

THANK YOU.