Here & Now

Madison Police Chief Koval Criticizes Review Price

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AS WE MENTIONED, THE INITIAL CALL FOR A REVIEW OF THE MADISON POLICE DEPARTMENT CAME ON THE HEELS OF THE MARCH, 2015 SHOOTING DEATH OF AN UNARMED 19-YEAR-OLD, TONY ROBINSON. FOLLOWING A DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE INVESTIGATION OF THAT SHOOTING, THE DANE COUNTY DA FOUND THAT OFFICER MATT KENNY HAD COMMITTED A LAWFUL USE OF DEADLY FORCE. MADISON POLICE CHIEF MIKE KOVAL JOINS US NOW WITH HIS REACTION TO THE CITY COUNCIL VOTING TO FUND A REVIEW OF HIS DEPARTMENT AND THANKS FOR BEING HERE CHIEF.

MIKE KOVAL:

THANK YOU FOR ASKING ME.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

THE TONE IN YOUR BLOG POST THAT YOU WROTE ON THIS MATTER OF THE $400,000 REVIEW OF YOUR DEPARTMENT WAS CERTAINLY ANGRY, BORDERING ON DEFENSIVE, EVEN VAGUELY THREATENING, WHEN YOU WROTE TELLING THE COMMON COUNCIL THAT YOU ARE BEING WATCHED. WHY DOES THIS HIT SUCH A NERVE AND WHAT IS THAT ABOUT?

MIKE KOVAL:

I THINK THERE’S BEEN A CULMINATION OF ISSUES. WHEN YOU SAY YOU’RE BEING WATCHED, FOR THE RECORD, I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE’RE UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT IS HYPERBOLE OR METAPHOR FOR THE FACT THAT YOUR ACTIONS OR LACK THEREOF IN YOUR DOMAIN AS PUBLIC OFFICIALS PEOPLE ARE WATCHING YOU FOR WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, DOING OR AFFIRMING IN TERMS OF THE POLICE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT ABOUT WHY THIS CALL FOR THE $400,000 TO CONDUCT THIS REVIEW HIT SUCH A NERVE WITH YOU?

MIKE KOVAL:

WELL, I THINK IT DID BECAUSE WE’VE ALWAYS BEEN RECEPTIVE TO AN INDEPENDENCE STUDY. WE’RE ACTUALLY READY TO EMBRACE IT. BUT, AGAIN, WHAT I’M CONCERNED ABOUT IS THAT I HAVE A MANTRA. WHAT’S IMPORTANT NOW? AND RIGHT NOW THE CITY’S ON THE CUSP OF SOME REAL FINANCIAL CRISES. AND THE SIZE OF THE STUDY, $400,000, AT A TIME IN WHICH THIS DEPARTMENT AND THIS CITY ARE LITERALLY SEARCHING FOR REMEDIES, IT’S A BAD TIME TO DO IT. I WAS ASKING FOR A DEFERMENT. BUT CLEARLY OTHERS THOUGHT DIFFERENTLY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND SO YOU WOULD BE OKAY WITH A DEFERRED KIND OF REVIEW, A SMALLER REVIEW? WHAT WOULD YOU BE OKAY WITH?

MIKE KOVAL:

ANYTHING THEY DEEM APPROPRIATE, NO MATTER WHAT THE SCALE, NO MATTER HOW COMPREHENSIVE, WE’RE GOING TO PROVIDE SUPPORT STAFF, DATA, WHATEVER THINGS THAT THEY THINK THAT WILL HELP BUILD A STUDY TO BE ITS MOST COMPREHENSIVE. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE SOME CONSTITUENTS SAY THAT WE REALLY NEED THIS STUDY TO SORT OF VALIDATE AND TO CREATE BETTER TRUST ENHANCEMENT. AND THAT’S FINE. BUT I DON’T THINK THAT THIS IS THE SORT OF DEPARTMENT THAT IS LITERALLY SPIRALING OUT OF CONTROL. AND THAT’S WHY I SAY WHAT DIFFERENCE WOULD SIX MONTHS HAVE MADE?

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALDER SHIVA BIDAR-SIELAFF SAYS THAT SHE EXPECTS THIS PRIVATE CONSULTANT’S REVIEW TO FIND THAT YOUR DEPARTMENT IS DOING MOST EVERYTHING RIGHT, BUT THAT THIS REVIEW WILL PROVE THAT THEN TO THE PUBLIC. SO WHAT ABOUT THE VALUE OF THAT?

MIKE KOVAL:

WELL, I AGREE WITH HER. AND SHE HAS BEEN A VERY GOOD PARTNER TO THE CITY OF MADISON POLICE DEPARTMENT. SHE HAS BEEN OUT THERE ON ISSUES FOR US TIME AND TIME AND AGAIN. AND I’M VERY GRATEFUL FOR HER PARTNERSHIP. AND I AGREE WITH HER. I THINK THAT MOST LIKELY THERE’S GOING TO BE A VERY AFFIRMING PROCESS DONE WITH THIS AND THAT WILL PROVIDE PEACE OF MIND AND, AGAIN, SOLIDIFY TRUST. SO I’M HAPPY THAT SHE FEELS THAT WAY BECAUSE THAT’S HOW I FEEL AS WELL. I DO THINK, THOUGH, THAT IT WOULD BE AN ACT OF COMPLETE HUBRIS TO ASSUME THAT WE’RE NOT IN NEED OF ANY IMPROVEMENT. I THINK ONE OF OUR CORE VALUES IS STRIVING FOR CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT. SO I DO HOPE TO HAVE SOME ACTIONABLE THINGS COMING OUT OF THERE THAT WE CAN WORK ON AS WELL.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

YOU SAID IN YOUR BLOG THAT EVEN A MODEL POLICE DEPARTMENT TRYING TO DO EVERYTHING IN ITS STATUTORY POWER STILL HAS STATISTICS THAT REFLECT RACIAL DISPARITIES, THAT BEING THE MADISON POLICE DEPARTMENT? WHY IS THAT?

MIKE KOVAL:

BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY DEEP-ROOTED SOCIETAL PROBLEMS THAT ARE REALLY DRIVING A LOT OF THE DISPARITIES. WE HAVE AN EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IN MADISON THAT IS AT A GAP, MAJOR GAP. MAJOR FLAWS WITH AFRICAN-AMERICAN YOUNG MEN IN PARTICULAR NOT GRADUATING. 53% IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. WE HAVE HOUSING SHORTAGES. WE HAVE UNSUPERVISED FAMILIES THAT DON’T HAVE PROPER STRUCTURE OR MENTORING. YOU HAVE SORT OF A CACOPHONY OF ILLS INCLUDING MOVEMENT TOWARDS GANGS, MOVEMENT TOWARDS DRUGS. AND MY CONCERN IS THAT AS LONG AS THE SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS INDICATORS THAT WE USE TO USE AS A LITMUS TEST FOR THE HEALTH AND WELLNESS ISSUES OF YOUR COMMUNITY, AS LONG AS THOSE ARE SAGGING FOR SOME AND NOT ENJOYED BY ALL, WE WILL ALWAYS BE FINDING OURSELVES POLICING THE DESPERATE ACTS OF THE MOST DESPERATE INDIVIDUALS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT TAKES ON A LARGER BURDEN THAN IT OUGHT BECAUSE OF THESE OTHER SOCIETAL PROBLEMS?

MIKE KOVAL:

I DO, BUT IT’S A RELATIONSHIP THAT IS INESCAPABLE. WE ARE THE ONLY 24/7 ER THAT HAS TO PROVIDE AT LEAST SOME SORT OF TRIAGING TO THESE ISSUES. BUT WE’RE COMPLETELY ILL-EQUIPPED TO GET TO THOSE DEEP-ROOTED PROBLEMS WHICH IS WHY, QUITE FRANKLY, HAD THE $400,000 BEEN EARMARKED FOR SOME SOCIAL PROGRAMMING, I WOULD HAVE BEEN FINE FOR THAT. I DIDN’T NECESSARILY HAVE TO HAVE IT DESIGNATED FOR MORE COPS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT’S YOUR REACTION TO THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBER WHO DURING THE HEARING ON THE VOTE FOR THE $400,000 STUDY SAID HE WAS UNCOMFORTABLE WITH YOU SITTING BEHIND HIM BECAUSE OF YOUR GUN?

MIKE KOVAL:

WELL, OF COURSE, I WENT THROUGH SORT OF A VARIETY OF EMOTIONS. FIRST SORT OF UTTER DISBELIEF BECAUSE I’M AN ANIMATED PERSON NORMALLY WHEN I SPEAK. AND THEN AS I THOUGHT ABOUT IT, I SAID, YOU KNOW, WE ALL HAVE EACH INDIVIDUAL LIFE EXPERIENCES. HE’S FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY ALTOGETHER, SO I CAN’T WALK A MILE IN HIS SHOES AND WHAT HIS PREDILECTIONS ARE ABOUT THE POLICE. BUT I OBVIOUSLY WAS A LITTLE DEFENSIVE TO THE EXTENT THAT SOMEONE COULD ACTUALLY SUGGEST THAT THE POLICE OF CHIEF WOULD ACTUALLY EVER USE FORCE AS A MECHANISM OF WHAT? THAT SORT OF LEFT ME SPEECHLESS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

IS THERE A WAY FOR THOSE YOU CALL THE PERPETUALLY OFFENDED AND YOURSELF AND THE DEPARTMENT TO COME TOGETHER AFTER THIS?

MIKE KOVAL:

WELL, I THINK WE’RE ALWAYS TRYING TO BE CONCILIATORY BECAUSE I’D MUCH RATHER BUILD A CONSENSUS THAN HAVE TO GO CONTENTIOUS. I THINK INFINITELY YES, WE CAN COME TOGETHER. WE ARE LOOKING AND STRIVING FOR THE SAME THINGS, PUBLIC SAFETY. AND THAT’S THE THING I’M TRYING TO SORT OF COACH UP THE ALDERS ABOUT. THEY KEEP SAYING, CHIEF, WE’RE GIVING YOU, WE’RE GIVING YOUR DEPARTMENT, WE’RE GIVING ALL YOU WANT. YOU HAVE THE BIGGEST BUDGET. I SAID NO, NO, NO. THIS IS OUR DEPARTMENT. THIS IS YOUR DEPARTMENT. THIS IS NOT MINE. THIS IS NOT AN EMPIRE BEING BUILT. THIS IS WHAT’S BEST FOR THE CITY AND THE CONSTITUENTS THAT YOU SERVE AS WELL.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALL RIGHT. WE LEAVE IT THERE. THANKS VERY MUCH.

MIKE KOVAL:

THANK YOU.