Frederica Freyberg:

A blow this week to the state’s new Ethics Commission with the announcement that a member resigned, saying its partisan makeup and the requirement it operate in secret makes it a quote a hopeless situation. Reserve judge Robert Kinney was a democratic appointee who said in his resignation statement, quote, at a time when public confidence in elected officials has been deeply eroded, we should be doubling down on our efforts to enforce campaign finance ethics and lobbying laws when charges of financial or ethical improprieties are leveled, or allegations of quid pro quo corruption are made, they must be thoroughly and timely investigated and if warranted, aggressively prosecuted. Sadly, he says, it appears we have created a system which almost guarantees that this will not occur. Republicans created the commission last year to replace the Government Accountability Board, which they criticized for its role in the John Doe investigation. So one member down and a scathing resignation letter leaving the chair of the Ethics Commission one member short. Former Democratic Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager joins us tonight. Thanks for being here.

Peg Lautenschlager:

Please to be with you Fred.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what is your reaction to judge Kinney's resignation and his statement that the commission you chair is, in his words, a hopeless situation?

Peg Lautenschlager:

Well, I'm sorry to see Judge Kinney go. He was a valuable member of the commission and I think that as to the reasons he resigned, as he’s articulated in his public statement, I agree with some of them. I disagree with some. From my perspective, as somebody who’s been in the legislature, who’s been in the executive branch of state and federal government, I think the challenge is to take — to try to make the commission work institutionally. I will be the first to admit that if I had been in the legislature at the creation of this commission, I think I would have designed it differently. It’s clearly partisan. It’s clearly got the 3-3 split. But I don’t — but I think that the challenges is for those of us who are on the commission to rise up above the structural limitations of the institution and try to deal with matters on an issue-by-issue basis and seek some consensus so that we know that moving forward we have made decisions based on what best fits in with people with a wide array of kind of political backgrounds and political perspectives.

Frederica Freyberg:

So the partisan nature of it is something that you agree with Judge Kinney about as being a problem, but what do you disagree with him that he has said that forced him to resign?

Peg Lautenschlager:

I think we’ve had a number of issues where we’ve been able to find consensus and move forward. One — and sometimes we move forward in a way that doesn’t have the partisan divide. One of the items he talks about is a motion by Commissioner Davis to pull out part of the mission statement.

Frederica Freyberg:

Let me actually explain that a little bit more. In fact, Commissioner Davis wanted to strike the words “furthering Wisconsin's tradition of clean and open government,” and that was kind of a split decision.

Peg Lautenschlager:

Right. But the decision wasn’t split along partisan lines is my point. Commissioner Strachota, former Majority Leader for the Wisconsin Assembly, voted with Commissioner Kinney and me to keep that language intact. And so Commissioner Davis’ vote, which did get the vote of one of the three Democrats on the committee, failed for lack of getting four votes. That’s one example. We’ve had a couple unanimous decisions that have been significant. One of them was the interpretation of a statute having to do with what you need to follow in terms of filing for exemption from campaign reporting if you’re under $2,000. And we decided to take what had been the practice of the GAB last year when the law came into being. And we had a unanimous vote saying, no, we must follow the statutory language. We had another vote as well regarding whether or not people who are on boards and commissions can accept gifts or something like that from organizations that come before those boards. We found unanimity on that. So there are some things in which we find that agreement.

Frederica Freyberg:

So are you suggesting that Judge Kinney's resignation and the kind of scathingly public method in which he did it was overstated?

Peg Lautenschlager:

No, I don’t think that. I’m just saying that I think there are ways we have been able to work through things sometimes and get results. Whether or not we’re always going to be able to do that, I don’t know. I wish I had the prescience in order to be able to predict. But I do think it is going to be a tough — it’s going to be a challenge for the commission to work in a bipartisan way. We are trying to do it using what I would call baby steps. We have — I think 60 of our votes have been unanimous. Needless to say, those that have not have been generally about bigger issues. So trying to find that consensus is where we’ve been going. And whether or not we’ll reach that, I don’t know. I mean, I think Judge — I would say Judge Kinney's skepticism, as he’s pronounced it in his public statements, is greater than mine, but I'm always somebody who holds out hope for something better.

Frederica Freyberg:

One of the votes that this commission took had to do with whether or not commissioners could give political donations.

Peg Lautenschlager:

Right.

Frederica Freyberg:

And you were one of those who voted in a way that made that okay.

Peg Lautenschlager:

Right.

Frederica Freyberg:

How is it — how can you enforce ethics violations against people you’re giving donations to?

Peg Lautenschlager:

Well, from my perspective, the board was set up in this partisan fashion, and the legislature made it very clear that it didn’t want us to do policy. It wanted us to follow the law as it has created it. And there has not been a prohibition. They didn’t want us to be prohibited from political activity. In fact, not only was I the treasurer of our political party, Democratic Party in Fond du Lac when I was appointed, I did resign as treasurer from that party because I didn’t think as an individual I could be brought before the board and that would be silly. But Katie McCallum is secretary of the state Republican Party. We went into there knowing we were partisan activists. For us then to say we’re going to be smarter than the legislature and even though the legislature has said all you’re doing is enforcement and you shall follow the laws we’ve made, for us to start adding things on I thought was a little unfair because it was sort of an after-the-fact thing. Had I known at the time I had taken the appointment that I would be subject to getting out of politics in general, I probably wouldn’t have done it, no, because I've been actively involved for many, many years as you know.

Frederica Freyberg:

We need to leave it there. Lots more to talk about. Thanks very much, Peg Lautenschlager.

Peg Lautenschlager:

Always a pleasure.