FREDERICA FREYBERG:
GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER HAS REPEATEDLY STATED HE’S OPPOSED TO THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT AND REFUSES TO ACCEPT THE LAWS EXPANDED MEDICAID DOLLARS. BUT NOW THE U. S. SUPREME COURT IS POISED TO RULE ON A CASE THAT COULD MEAN THE COLLAPSE OF SO-CALLED OBAMACARE BECAUSE JUSTICES WILL DECIDE WHETHER PEOPLE IN STATES THAT DID NOT SET UP THEIR OWN HEALTH CARE EXCHANGES SHOULD BE ABLE TO GET FEDERAL SUBSIDIES UNDER THE LAW. PEOPLE OPPOSED TO THE A.C.A. WHO BROUGHT THE SUIT SAY THE LAW STATES “THE SUBSIDIES CAN BE AWARDED IN MARKETPLACES ESTABLISHED BY THE STATE.” WISCONSIN AND 33 OTHER STATES DID NOT ESTABLISH THEIR OWN MARKETPLACES. OURS IS A FEDERAL EXCHANGE. JUST WHAT COULD THAT MEAN FOR THE MORE THAN 180,000 PEOPLE IN THE STATE CURRENTLY ENROLLED IN OBAMACARE? WE TURNED TO JON PEACOCK, THE RESEARCH DIRECTOR AT THE WISCONSIN COUNCIL ON CHILDREN AND FAMILIES. AND JON, THANKS VERY MUCHFOR BEING HERE.
JON PEACOCK:
THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
SO TO THAT QUESTION, JUST WHAT COULD IT MEAN IF THE SUPREME COURT RULES IN FAVOR OF THE PLAINTIFF IN THIS CASE?
JON PEACOCK:
WE THINK THAT ON PRETTY SHORT ORDER, ALL OR NEARLY ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE WOULD LOSE THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE. 183,000 PEOPLE PARTICIPATING IN THE MARKETPLACE BECAUSE MOST OF THEM WOULDN’T BE ABLE TO AFFORD IT WITHOUT THE PREMIUM TAX CREDITS. MORE THAN NINE OUT OF 10 ARE GETTING PREMIUM TAX CREDITS AVERAGING $315 A MONTH. AND WITHOUT THAT THEY WOULDN’T BE ABLE TO AFFORD IT AND THE INSURANCE COMPANIES WOULD PROBABLY IN PRETTY QUICK ORDER STOP OFFERING THOSE PLANS.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
AND SO THESE PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE OUT OF INSURANCE OR WOULD, YOU KNOW, LEAVE THE ENROLLMENT OF OBAMACARE, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN THEN?
JON PEACOCK:
WELL, SOME OF THEM WOULD CERTAINLY TRY TO BUY INDIVIDUAL PLANS OUTSIDE THE MARKETPLACE. BUT FOR MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE, THAT’S NOT GOING TO BE AFFORDABLE. AND WHAT INSURANCE EXPERTS SAY WOULD HAPPEN IS THAT THE SICKER PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE MOST MOTIVATION FISCALLY AND OTHERWISE TO GET INSURANCE, THEY WOULD GO AHEAD AND PAY FOR IT. WHEREAS THE HEALTHIER PEOPLE WOULD NOT. THEN THE AVERAGE HEALTH STATUS OF PEOPLE BUYING INSURANCE OUTSIDE THE MARKETPLACE WOULD BE WORSE. COSTS WOULD GO UP DRAMATICALLY. A LOT OF EXPERTS SAY BY ABOUT 35% IN 2016 OUTSIDE THE MARKETPLACE. SO THERE’D BE A CASCADING EFFECT FOR PEOPLE THAT WOULD INCLUDE PEOPLE WHO DON’T CURRENTLY GET THE TAX CREDITS THROUGH THE MARKETPLACE COVERAGE.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
SO IT REALLY IS PRETTY ACCURATE TO SUGGEST THAT THIS WOULD BE THE COLLAPSE OF THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT.
JON PEACOCK:
IT WOULD BE THE COLLAPSE OF THE INDIVIDUAL MARKETPLACE, BOTH IN THE MARKETPLACE THAT HAS THE SUBSIDIES AND THE INDIVIDUAL INSURANCE MARKET OUTSIDE THAT. IT WOULD BE THE COLLAPSE OF THAT. NOW, THERE ARE OTHER IMPORTANT ASPECTS OF THE LAW THAT WOULD STILL BE IN PLACE BUT IT WOULD BE A HUGE BLOW. AND I THINK WOULD PRETTY MUCH UNDO THE PROGRESS THAT WISCONSIN HAS MADE IN SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCING THE NUMBER OF UNINSURED PEOPLE IN OUR STATE.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
I NOTE IN YOUR STUDY, THAT VILAS COUNTY HAS THE MOST ENROLLEES IN THE FEDERAL MARKETPLACE PLANS. WHERE ELSE IN WISCONSIN DID A LOT OF PEOPLE SIGN UP?
JON PEACOCK:
PEOPLE ARE USING THE MARKETPLACE MUCH MORE IN THE RURAL AREAS OF THE STATE THAN IN THE URBAN AREAS. NOW GRANTED, AS YOU WOULD EXPECT, THE MORE POPULOUS PARTS OF THE STATE HAVE THE MOST PEOPLE IN THE MARKETPLACE BUT AS A PERCENTAGE OF THE STATE POPULATION, IT’S ABOUT TWICE AS HIGH OF PARTICIPATION RATE IN RURAL AREAS AS IN URBAN AREAS. AND THE REASON FOR THAT I THINK PRIMARILY IS BECAUSE PEOPLE IN MORE RURAL PARTS OF THE STATE TYPICALLY WORK FOR SMALLER BUSINESSES THAT CAN’T OFFER AFFORDABLE INSURANCE OR MANY OF THEM ARE SELF-EMPLOYED. SO THEY’RE MUCH MORE DEPENDENT UPON THIS FEDERAL MARKETPLACE AND THOSE PREMIUM TAX CREDITS.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
IN STATES THAT DO HAVE THEIR OWN STATE-RUN EXCHANGES, NONE OF THIS APPLIES.
JON PEACOCK:
THAT’S CORRECT. SO IF THE PLAINTIFFS PREVAIL AND THE SUBSIDIES ARE ELIMINATED, THEY WOULD GO AWAY IN 34 STATES AND REMAIN IN THE OTHER 16.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
CAN YOU IMAGINE ANY KIND OF MIGRATION ON THE PART OF PEOPLE WHO VERY DEARLY NEED THESE SUBSIDIES IN THIS PLAN?
JON PEACOCK:
WELL, PERHAPS A LITTLE BIT BUT OF COURSE, THAT GETS US TO THE QUESTION OF WHAT WOULD STATE POLICY MAKERS DO? WE DON’T HAVE TO SIT BACK AND DO NOTHING AND ACCEPT THE FATE THAT THERE WOULDN’T BE SUBSIDIES HERE. STATE LAWMAKERS COULD STEP UP AND THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT THEY COULD DO TO HELP PEOPLE OUT.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT IN A MINUTE BUT FIRST I WANT TO ASK, IN WISCONSIN, THE OTHER PIECE IS THAT THERE WERE SOME 63,000 PEOPLE WHO WERE SHIFTED FROM BADGER CARE TO OBAMACARE AS WE KEEP CALLING IT. WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM?
JON PEACOCK:
THEY’RE REALLY HURTING. IN 2013 THE GOVERNOR PROPOSED CUTTING IN HALF THE INCOME LIMIT FOR PARENTS IN BADGER CARE AND ABOUT 60,000 ADULTS HAVE LOST THEIR BADGER CARE COVERAGE IN WISCONSIN AND 3,000 KIDS. AND MAYBE ABOUT HALF OF THEM ARE IN THE MARKETPLACE RIGHT NOW AND THEY’D REALLY BE STRUGGLING TO FIND AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE. I THINK MOST OF THEM WOULD END UP UNINSURED. WISCONSIN LAWMAKERS HAVING MADE THAT DECISION TO SCALE BACK BADGER CARE, RATIONALIZING THAT ON THE BASIS THAT THOSE PEOPLE COULD BE SERVED IN THE MARKETPLACE WITH THOSE PREMIUM TAX CREDITS, THEY HAVE A PARTICULARLY OBLIGATION TO FIX THIS IF THE COURT STRIKES DOWN THOSE SUBSIDIES.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
YOU SUGGEST THAT WISCONSIN TO FIX IT, COULD ACCEPT THE EXPANDED MEDICAID MONEY OR DEVELOP ITS OWN MARKETPLACE BUT NEITHER OF THOSE SEEMS PARTICULARLY LIKELY, DOES IT?
JON PEACOCK:
WELL, CERTAINLY IT’S TOUGH. THE GOVERNOR IS OUT CAMPAIGNING FOR CONSERVATIVE VOTES. AND HE AND OTHER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES ARE INCLINED TO SAY NEGATIVE THINGS ABOUT THE MARKETPLACE. BUT I THINK AT SOME POINT, WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE AND THE REALITY HITS, THAT YOU HAVE 180,000 PEOPLE WHO COULD QUICKLY BECOME UNINSURED AND MANY OF THOSE, BECAUSE OF THE DECISIONS THE GOVERNOR PUSHED THROUGH. I THINK THERE’S A DECENT CHANCE HE’LL RECONSIDER.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
WE’LL BE WAITING FOR THAT. JON PEACOCK, THANKS YOU VERY MUCH.
JON PEACOCK:
THANK YOU.
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News Stories from PBS Wisconsin
02/03/25
‘Here & Now’ Highlights: State Rep. Sylvia Ortiz-Velez, Jane Graham Jennings, Chairman Tehassi Hill

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