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FREDERICA FREYBERG:
WITH ALL EYES ON FLINT, MICHIGAN AND ITS FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY OVER ITS LEAD LEVELS IN THE DRINKING WATER, NEW REPORTING OUT THIS SUNDAY FROM THE WISCONSIN CENTER FOR INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM ABOUT LEAD DANGERS COMING FROM TAP WATER IN WISCONSIN. ACCORDING TO THE CENTER’S REPORTING, THERE ARE AT LEAST 176,000 LEAD SERVICE LINE WATER PIPES IN WISCONSIN HOMES, AND 23,000 HOUSEHOLDS MAY BE CONSUMING UNSAFE LEVELS OF LEAD IN THEIR TAP WATER. ALREADY NEARLY 4,000 CHILDREN IN WISCONSIN TESTED POSITIVE IN 2014 FOR ELEVATED LEAD LEVELS IN THEIR BLOODSTREAM, 60% OF THOSE IN MILWAUKEE. BUT EXPERTS SAY EVEN THESE STATISTICS UNDERESTIMATE THE PROBLEM BECAUSE ONLY 20% OF WISCONSIN CHILDREN ARE TESTED AND NOT BEFORE THE AGE OF ONE, POTENTIALLY MISSING INFANTS WHO CAN INGEST LEAD IN FORMULA MADE WITH TAP WATER RUNNING THROUGH CORRODED LEAD PIPES. THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE HAS ESTIMATED IT WOULD COST HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO REPLACE ITS AGING LEAD PIPES SERVING OLDER HOUSING STOCK, A DAUNTING TASK, BUT ONE THAT THE CITY OF MADISON COMPLETED IN 2012. MADISON IS CONSIDERED A MODEL FOR THE REST OF THE COUNTRY. WE ARE JOINED NOW BY MADISON WATER UTILITY WATER QUALITY MANAGER JOE GRANDE AND THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
JOE GRANDE:
HAPPY TO BE HERE.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
WHEN AN EXPERT LIKE YOURSELF IN WATER QUALITY SEES WHAT’S HAPPENING IN FLINT, WHAT IS THAT LIKE?
JOE GRANDE:
IT’S PRETTY SAD. IT’S JUST A VERY SAD SITUATION, SOMETHING THAT SOME WOULD ARGUE WAS PROBABLY AVOIDABLE WITH ADDITIONAL PRECAUTIONS TAKEN, BUT UNFORTUNATELY THE REALITY IS WHAT IT IS.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
WHAT PROMPTED MADISON TO UNDERTAKE THE GIANT TASK OF REPLACING A TOTAL OF WAS IT 12,000 PIPES AND CONNECTIONS?
JOE GRANDE:
WE ESTIMATE IT WAS ABOUT 8,000 WHEN IT WAS ALL SAID AND DONE. THERE WERE PROBABLY 11,000 INITIALLY INSTALLED. BUT BETWEEN THE ’20s AND THE 1990s, WHEN WE REALLY RAMPED UP, IT WAS PROBABLY ONLY LEFT WITH ABOUT 8,000 THAT NEEDED TO BE REPLACED. WE HAD DONE SOME TESTS THAT WERE REQUIRED BY THE LEAD AND COPPER RULE AND WE EXCEEDED A BENCHMARK, WHICH TRIGGERED US TO DO EITHER CORROSION CONTROL OR FULL LEAD SERVICE REPLACEMENT. MOST UTILITIES DO CORROSION CONTROL. THEY ADD CHEMICALS TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF LEAD THAT’S GOING TO LEACH FROM THE PIPES. WE HAD DONE SOME STUDIES USING OUR WATER AND DEMONSTRATED THAT THERE REALLY WAS LIMITED BENEFIT. SOME OF THE CHEMICALS ACTUALLY INCREASED THE LEVELS OF LEAD. AND SO WE BEGAN NEGOTIATIONS OR DISCUSSIONS WITH THE STATE TO MOVE TO FULL LEAD SERVICE REPLACEMENT BEFORE OR IN LIEU OF ADDING THE CHEMICALS.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
BECAUSE THE CHEMICALS ALSO CAN CAUSE MORE ALGAE GROWTH IN BODIES OF WATER, RIGHT?
JOE GRANDE:
THAT’S TRUE SO THE ALTERNATIVE WAS TO USE ORTHO PHOSPHATE AND AS WE KNOW THAT IS WHAT TRIGGERS EUTROPHICATION OR THE ALGAE GROWTH IN MADISON AREA LAKES. THE OTHER PROBLEM WAS THAT WE WOULD ADD IT AND THE WASTE WATER PLANT WOULD NEED TO REMOVE. AND SO THOSE WERE ADDITIONAL COSTS THAT OFTEN AREN’T FACTORED INTO THIS DECISION-MAKING.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
WHAT WAS THE TOTAL COST IN MADISON?
JOE GRANDE:
THE TOTAL COST FOR US TO REPLACE ALL THE LEAD SERVICE PIPES FROM 1995 THROUGH 2011 WAS ABOUT $15.5 MILLION.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
WHICH IS SO SMALL COMPARED TO WHAT LIKE THE CITY OF MILWAUKEE IS LOOKING AT.
JOE GRANDE:
YEAH. I SAW LATEST ESTIMATES IN EXCESS OF A HALF A BILLION DOLLARS TO DO THEIR TOTAL REPLACEMENT.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
SO WHAT KIND OF A TASK IS THAT? IS IT EVEN SURMOUNTABLE IN MILWAUKEE AND OTHER CITIES OF THAT SIZE OR CITIES WHO HAVE REALLY AGING STOCK?
JOE GRANDE:
WELL, I THINK THE PRICE TAG LOOKS PRETTY INSURMOUNTABLE. I THINK EVEN FOR A SMALL CITY LIKE MADISON IT WAS A HERCULEAN TASK. EVERYBODY AT THE WATER UTILITY WAS REALLY FOCUSED ON THIS PROGRAM TO GET RID OF LEAD SERVICES FROM OUR SYSTEM. SO IT WAS AN INCREDIBLE ENDEAVOR BY ALL OF OUR STAFF, YOU KNOW, FROM OUR FRONT LINE STAFF TO OUR OFFICE STAFF, EVEN RIGHT ON UP TO THE GENERAL MANAGER, WHO ULTIMATELY MADE THE RIGHT DECISION 20 PLUS YEARS AGO.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
AND CONSUMERS HAD TO BEAR SOME OF THAT COST. WAS THERE PUSHBACK ON THAT?
JOE GRANDE:
ABSOLUTELY. I WASN’T HERE DURING THESE DISCUSSIONS, BUT THERE WAS CONSIDERABLE PUSHBACK. THERE WAS EDITORIALS IN THE MEDIA THAT JUST SAID, YOU KNOW, THAT THERE WAS NO BENEFIT TO WHAT WAS BEING DONE OR WHAT WAS BEING PROPOSED. THERE WAS A LOT OF CONTENTIOUS DEBATE, AS I UNDERSTAND. THE COMMON COUNCIL WHEN IT ULTIMATELY PASSED AND SAID THAT THIS WAS THE ROUTE THAT THE CITY WAS GOING TO TAKE, IN THE END THE UTILITY HELPED TO BUFFER THOSE COSTS BY PROVIDING A REIMBURSEMENT. SO THE CITY OFFERED TO PAY HALF THE COST UP TO $1,000 FOR HOMEOWNERS TO CHANGE OUT THEIR LEAD SERVICES.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
AND THE LEAD IN THE DRINKING WATER IN MADISON IS ZERO?
JOE GRANDE:
I WISH I COULD SAY THAT, BUT UNFORTUNATELY IT’S NOT. OUR 90TH PERCENTILE LEVEL NEEDS TO BE BELOW 15. WE’RE RIGHT AROUND 3. UNFORTUNATELY PIPE COMPONENTS STILL IN USE IN OUR HOUSES, LEAD-BASED SOLDER THAT WAS INSTALLED THROUGH THE EARLY 1980S, BRASS FITTINS, FIXTURES, THEY ALSO STILL CONTAIN SOME AMOUNT OF LEAD. SO WE CAN’T ENTIRELY ELIMINATE IT WITHOUT TELLING PEOPLE TO TOTALLY CHANGE OUT THEIR PIPES IN THEIR HOME AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY’RE INSTALLED WITH LEAD-FREE COMPONENTS. UP UNTIL 2014, LEAD-FREE STILL HAD 8% LEAD.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
SO VERY, VERY BRIEFLY, JUST, YOU KNOW, 15 SECONDS LEFT, MADISON IS A MODEL FOR THE REST OF THE COUNTRY?
JOE GRANDE:
I WOULD SAY SO. I MEAN, WE MADE A DECISION 20 PLUS YEARS AGO TO TAKE OUT THE LEAD. THAT’S THE PRINCIPAL SOURCE OF THE — THE LEAD PIPES ARE THE PRINCIPAL SOURCE OF LEAD IN OUR DRINKING WATER. WE DON’T HAVE THAT IN OUR SYSTEM ANYMORE.
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