ANNOUNCER:

THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS PART OF OUR “HERE AND NOW” 2016 WISCONSIN VOTE ELECTION COVERAGE. FUNDING FOR “HERE AND NOW” IS PROVIDED, IN PART, BY FRIENDS OF WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

I’M FREDERICA FREYBERG WITH ANALYSIS OF TONIGHT’S DEBATE ON THIS SPECIAL LIVE EDITION OF “HERE AND NOW.” WE JUST SAW INCUMBENT U.S. SENATOR RON JOHNSON AND CHALLENGER FORMER U.S. SENATOR RUSS FEINGOLD IN AN AT TIMES CONTENTIOUS 60-MINUTE FACE-OFF. BEFORE THE DEBATE, HERE’S WHAT VOTERS WE TALKED WITH HOPED THE CANDIDATES WOULD COVER.

KAY LORE:

I DEFINITELY THINK TALK ABOUT TAX, CONTINUE ABOUT OBAMACARE.

KRIS PETERSON:

WISCONSIN’S ECONOMY. IMPROVING THE WISCONSIN ECONOMY. JOBS, CERTAINLY, FINDING MORE JOBS.

AIDA ZYGAS:

CLIMATE CHANGE AND TRYING TO COMBAT THE GREENHOUSE GASES. SO THAT’S SOMETHING THAT’S REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME.

BRYAN VITO:

STUDENT LOAN DEBT IS A BIG ONE FOR ME.

BRAD HUTNIK:

ONE QUESTION I’D LIKE TO HEAR THEM ADDRESS IS EXPANDING RURAL BROADBAND INTERNET ACCESS FOR RURAL WISCONSIN.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WELL WE JUST SAW THE CANDIDATES DUKE IT OUT FOR THE LAST HOUR AND DID THOSE VOTERS HEAR WHAT THEY WERE HOPING FOR? WE GO TO UW-MADISON JOURNALISM PROFESSOR MICHAEL WAGNER. AND TICKING DOWN THAT LIST, THEY GOT TO A LOT OF IT.

MICHAEL WAGNER:

THEY DID. THERE WERE KIND OF 10 SUBSTANTIVE ISSUES THAT WERE DISCUSSED OVER THE COURSE OF THE DEBATE, PLUS THE “DO YOU SUPPORT YOUR PARTY NOMINEE?” QUESTION AS WELL. NOT EVERYTHING ON THAT LAST, BROADBAND QUALITY MAY BE AN EXAMPLE THAT DIDN’T GET ASKED. BUT IN GENERAL THIS WAS A PRETTY SUBSTANTIVE DEBATE FOR ONE HOUR AND TWO PEOPLE WITH SOME FOLLOW-UPS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

YEAH. SO IF YOU HAD TO TAKE THE WHOLE THING AND ENCAPSULATE IT, YOU THINK THERE WAS A CLEAR WINNER AT ALL HERE?

MICHAEL WAGNER:

I DON’T KNOW THAT THERE WAS A CLEAR WINNER. I THINK BOTH SENATOR FEINGOLD AND SENATOR JOHNSON DID A GOOD JOB EXPRESSING WHAT THEIR VIEWS ARE, WHY THEY HAVE THEM. THEY WERE CONSISTENT WITH ISSUES THEY’VE PRESENTED IN THE PAST AND VIEWS THEY PRESENTED IN THE PAST. I’M NOT SURE THERE WAS A CLEAR WINNER. I THOUGHT THAT SENATOR FEINGOLD WAS A LITTLE MORE ON MESSAGE WITH RESPECT TO THE ADS HE’S RUNNING THAN SENATOR JOHNSON WAS. JOHNSON SEEMS TO BE AIRING ADS SAYING FEINGOLD’S A CAREER POLITICIAN. AND HE DIDN’T REALLY BRING THAT UP A LOT DURING THE DEBATE UNTIL THE VERY END AT THE CLOSING. THE OTHER PARTS OF THE DEBATE HE WASN’T DOING THAT AS MUCH. BUT THEY WERE BOTH ANSWERING QUESTIONS AND NEITHER MADE AN ENORMOUS GAFFE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

I GOT THE SENSE THAT IT STARTED KINDA SLOWLY, THEY KIND OF GOT THEIR FOOTING AND THEN NEAR THE END THEY REALLY WANTED TO GET THEIR JABS IN AND GET MORE AGGRESSIVE.

MICHAEL WAGNER:

YEAH. THE VERBAL KNIVES WERE OUT MORE IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE DEBATE THAN THE FIRST HALF FOR SURE. I THINK THAT’S RIGHT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

HOW DIFFERENT DO YOU GAUGE THIS DIALOG BETWEEN THESE CANDIDATES AND THAT THAT WE’RE SEEING AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL BETWEEN THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES?

MICHAEL WAGNER:

NIGHT AND DAY. I THINK THIS WAS TEN ISSUES PLUS A QUESTION ABOUT TRUMP AND HILLARY CLINTON IN ONE HOUR WITH FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS FROM THE MODERATORS, SO A LOT MORE SUBSTANCE WAS DISCUSSED. BOTH THE SENATORS WERE RESPECTFUL OF EACH OTHER IN TERMS OF NOT INTERRUPTING EACH OTHER. YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE IT WAS SOMEONE’S TURN TO GO. THAT SORT OF STUFF THAT WE’RE SEEING REALLY DOMINATE THE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE WE’RE NOT SEEING HERE IN THE WISCONSIN SENATE DEBATE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AGAIN AS YOU JUST SAID, THE FIRST QUESTION OUT OF THE CHUTE, AS ONE MIGHT EXPECT, GIVEN EVERYTHING THAT’S GOING ON IN ELECTIONS RIGHT NOW, HAD TO DO WITH DONALD TRUMP AND HILLARY CLINTON. AND WE KNOW WHAT RON JOHNSON SAID AND I THINK WE HAVE A SOUND-BITE FROM THIS DEBATE ISOLATING THAT QUESTION TO THE CANDIDATES ON DONALD TRUMP AND HILLARY CLINTON. LET’S LISTEN.

RON JOHNSON:

I’M NOT GOING TO DEFEND THE INDEFENSIBLE, WHICH TRUTHFULLY IS KIND OF A MARKED DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MYSELF AND SENATOR FEINGOLD, WHO MUST BE ABOUT THE LAST AMERICAN WHO THINKS THAT HILLARY CLINTON IS TRUSTWORTHY. AND HE HAS COMPLETELY SUPPORTED HER, EVEN THOUGH SHE HAS DECADES, DECADES WORTH OF RECORD OF CORRUPTION, LYING BOLDFACE TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, HER DERELICTION OF DUTY IN BENGHAZI.

RUSS FEINGOLD:

I THINK IT WILL BE VERY FRIGHTENING FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD IF WE ELECTED DONALD TRUMP. SENATOR JOHNSON HAS A CHANCE TO FOLLOW THE LEAD OF THE OTHER SENATORS, REPUBLICAN SENATORS, HIS COLLEAGUES WHO ARE ALSO IN TOUGH RE-ELECTION FIGHTS WHO HAVE SAID NO. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. I’M NOT GOING TO SUPPORT DONALD TRUMP. I CHALLENGE HIM TO DO THE SAME.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO HOW HARD IS IT FOR THESE DOWN-BALLOT CANDIDATES WITH THESE TWO CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT?

MICHAEL WAGNER:

WELL, I THINK IT’S HARDER FOR PEOPLE ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE IN THIS ELECTION CYCLE BECAUSE THERE’S BEEN SO MANY THINGS DONALD TRUMP HAS SAID THAT HAVE CAUSED SO MANY PROBLEMS WITH SO MANY DIFFERENT CONSTITUENCIES. THESE CANDIDATES ARE GETTING PRESSURE FROM ALL OVER THE PLACE TO DISAVOW SUPPORT FOR TRUMP AND THAT SORT OF THING. BUT THEY’RE ALSO GETTING PRESSURE FROM A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BASE TO SUPPORT DONALD TRUMP. YOU SEE SENATOR JOHNSON TRYING TO WALK THAT LINE, SAYING I’M NOT GOING TO DEFEND THE INDEFENSIBLE, BUT WE SURE DON’T WANT HILLARY CLINTON. HE SAID IN HIS ANSWER THERE ARE LOTS OF AREAS WHERE I AGREE WITH TRUMP AND DISAGREE. HE DIDN’T NECESSARILY OUTLINE THE POLICIES THAT TRUMP HAD THAT SENATOR JOHNSON AGREED WITH, BUT HE DID TALK ABOUT THINGS HE DISAGREED WITH. SAYING I DO AGREE, BUT HERE ARE THE THINGS I DON’T LIKE AND THAT’S THE LINE THAT SPEAKER RYAN, SENATOR JOHNSON AND MANY OTHERS ARE TRYING TO WALK. IT’S BEEN HARDER FOR THEM I THINK THAN FOR FOLKS SUPPORTING HILLARY CLINTON.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WELL, BECAUSE EVEN AS DONALD TRUMP COMES INTO WISCONSIN, WE NOTE THAT MANY OF THE TOP REPUBLICANS, INCLUDING RON JOHNSON, DON’T NECESSARILY APPEAR WITH HIM. THAT’S VERY UNUSUAL.

MICHAEL WAGNER:

THAT IS UNUSUAL. AND WE SAW SOME OF THAT GET THROWN BACK IN THE — KIND OF THE UNITY RALLY’S FACE WHEN SOME PEOPLE AT THE RALLY WEREN’T HAPPY THAT DONALD TRUMP OR MIKE PENCE WEREN’T THERE. ON THE OTHER HAND, RUSS FEINGOLD DIDN’T REALLY GIVE A FULL-THROATED SUPPORT FOR HILLARY CLINTON. HE SAID HE SUPPORTED SANDERS AND CLINTON. HE CERTAINLY KNOWS HIS CANDIDATE DIDN’T WIN THE WISCONSIN PRIMARY EITHER IF HE WAS FOR SANDERS. IT’S NOT REALLY CLEAR WHO HE WAS FOR. THE SAME GOES ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE. THE PEOPLE WHO WON THE RACE IN THE WISCONSIN PRIMARY FOR PRESIDENT AREN’T THE CANDIDATES FOR PRESIDENT AND THAT’S KIND OF A UNIQUE SITUATION.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT THEY SPOKE ABOUT WAS, OF COURSE, ISIS AND TERROR. THERE WERE KIND OF A LOT OF QUESTIONS SURROUNDING THE MILITARY AND SECURITY, BUT WE HAVE ANOTHER CLIP FROM THE DEBATE ON THIS TOPIC.

RON JOHNSON:

THEY’RE BEGGING FOR AMERICAN LEADERSHIP. WE DON’T NEED TO PROVIDE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF TROOPS. WE NEED TO LEAD. WE NEED TO PROVIDE THE AIR COVER. WE NEED TO PROVIDE THINGS LIKE NO-FLY ZONES. BUT AMERICA HAS TO LEAD. THEY’RE BEGGING FOR OUR LEADERSHIP AND WE HAVE NOT BEEN DOING SO. SENATOR FEINGOLD SAYS HE HAS A PLAN. THE PROBLEM IS IT’S PRESIDENT OBAMA’S PLAN AND AFTER MORE THAN TWO YEARS, CIA DIRECTOR JOHN BRENNAN SAID DESPITE OUR EFFORTS ISIS REMAINS A FORMIDABLE, RESILIENT, AND LARGELY COHESIVE ENEMY.

RUSS FEINGOLD:

THIS IS BEYOND POLITICS. THIS SHOULD BE WHEN WE TALK TO EACH OTHER AS FRIENDS AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO TO DESTROY THIS ORGANIZATION? WHAT YOU HEARD FROM SENATOR JOHNSON WAS NO PLAN AT ALL. I SPECIFICALLY BELIEVE THERE’S SEVERAL THINGS WE NEED TO DO AND DO MORE INTENSIVELY. FIRST OF ALL, WE HAVE TO KNOCK OFF THEIR LEADERS. WE HAVE TO KILL THEM. THERE IS A SPECIAL FORCE STARTING THAT. THEY GOT THE NUMBER TWO GUY THEY THINK RECENTLY IN ISIS. BUT THAT NEEDS TO BE INTENSIFIED.

MICHAEL WAGNER:

I REALLY THOUGHT THIS WAS EMBLEMATIC OF THE ENTIRE DEBATE IN TERMS OF THE TWO CANDIDATES’ STRATEGIES. YOU HAD ON THE ONE HAND SENATOR JOHNSON TAKING THE ANSWER ON DEFENSE SPENDING, TAKING THE ANSWER ON ISIS AND TALKING ABOUT THEM FROM A CONSERVATIVE PHILOSOPHY POINT OF VIEW AND FROM A PARTISAN POLITICS POINT OF VIEW. SO HE OUTLINED HIS CONSERVATIVE PHILOSOPHY, OPPOSING WHAT HE CALLED THE HOLLOWING-OUT OF THE MILITARY, WHICH HE REFERRED TO AT LEAST THREE TIMES DURING THE COURSE OF THE DEBATE. AND HE TALKED ABOUT HOW DEMOCRATS DON’T LIKE TO FUND THE MILITARY UNLESS THEY ALSO GET SOMETHING FOR SOCIAL PROGRAMS THAT SENATOR JOHNSON SAID DON’T WORK. SO HE WAS REALLY ARTICULATING CONSERVATIVE PHILOSOPHY AND THEN TALKING PARTISAN POLITICS. SENATOR FEINGOLD IN ALMOST EVERY ANSWER TALKED ABOUT BEING BIPARTISAN, GOING TO 72 COUNTIES AND LISTENING, HEARING WHAT IT IS PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY. AND ON THOSE DEFENSE ANSWERS TALKED A LOT ABOUT HOW HE WANTED TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS IN WAYS THAT HE COULD AGREE WITH SOME REPUBLICANS ON. SO I THINK THEY WERE OUTLINING DIFFERENT STRATEGIES, SENATOR JOHNSON MORE THE PARTISAN BATTLER AND SENATOR FEINGOLD MORE THE BIPARTISAN PERSON TO TRY TO WORK ACROSS PARTY LINES.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALTHOUGH THE ONE THING I DO KNOW ABOUT RUSS FEINGOLD TOO, WE HEARD IT HERE TONIGHT AND HE HAS SAID IT BEFORE THAT HE THINKS THERE SHOULD BE MORE MONEY FOR THE MILITARY, AT LEAST TO THE EXTENT THAT THERE NEED TO BE MORE SPIES, MORE FBI, MORE CIA, SO PERHAPS THAT’S A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT TAKE.

MICHAEL WAGNER:

HE DID SAY THAT TONIGHT. HE ALSO SAID HE THOUGHT SPENDING OUGHT TO BE TAILORED TO THE PARTICULAR KINDS OF THREATS WE FACE. SO HIS ANSWERS WERE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN WE TEND TO HEAR FROM DEMOCRATS ON THOSE SORTS OF ISSUES.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

YOU KNOW, JUST WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE TWO CANDIDATES RUNNING, BOTH SENATORS, ONE FORMER, ONE CURRENT, THE FORMER SENATOR WORKING PRETTY CLOSELY ON THESE VERY TYPES OF ISSUES DURING HIS TENURE AND NOW THE CURRENT SENATOR BEING THE CHAIRMAN OF THE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMISSION, AS WELL AS BEING ON THE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE. SO IT’S ALMOST LIKE THEY LOOK AT EACH OTHER WHEN THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT THESE ISSUES THINKING, “YEAH, REALLY? I THINK I KNOW BETTER.”

MICHAEL WAGNER:

THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF THAT. AND SOME OF THE MORE FIERY MOMENTS OF THE DEBATE WERE I THINK ABOUT THOSE SORTS OF ISSUES WHEN SENATOR FEINGOLD ALL BUT CALLED SENATOR JOHNSON A LIAR AFTER ONE OF THOSE ANSWERS RELATED TO SOME OF THOSE ISSUES RELATED TO–CARE OF VETERANS IN PARTICULAR. AND SO WE SAW THAT. AND IT WAS CLEAR, I THINK, THAT THEY BOTH WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THE IMPORTANT ROLE WISCONSIN SENATORS PLAY IN FOREIGN POLICY DECISIONS. THEY HAVE VERY DIFFERENT VIEWS ABOUT THE SUCCESS OF THE WORK THEY’VE DONE WHILE IN OFFICE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT ABOUT THAT DYNAMIC WHERE RON JOHNSON STILL BELIEVES HIMSELF TO BE THE NON-CAREER POLITICIAN EVEN THOUGH HE IS THE CHAIR OF A COMMITTEE AND RUSS FEINGOLD NOW COMES AS THIS OUTSIDER CHALLENGER? ARE THOSE — ARE THESE UNUSUAL DYNAMICS?

MICHAEL WAGNER:

A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW, BUT SENATOR JOHNSON HAS NOT BEEN IN POLITICS AS LONG AS SENATOR FEINGOLD HAS. BUT WHEN YOU’RE THE INCUMBENT SENATOR AND SERVED FOR SIX YEARS, IT’S HARD TO PAINT YOURSELF AS AN OUTSIDER AS COMPARED TO SOMEONE ELSE. I THINK JOHNSON’S VIEW IS WELL FEINGOLD HAS BEEN IN OFFICE AND BEEN A POLITICIAN WAY LONGER THAN I HAVE. THAT’S HIS CAREER. I DID SOMETHING ELSE AND THEN DECIDED TO SERVE, BUT I WANT TO DO IT AGAIN. IT’S THE BUT I WANT TO DO IT AGAIN THAT MAKES HIM MORE LIKE A CONVENTIONAL POLITICIAN. SOMEONE SEEKING RE-ELECTION.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND YET RON JOHNSON HAS NOW SAID THAT HE WOULDN’T RUN FOR RE-ELECTION IF HE WON.

MICHAEL WAGNER:

THAT’S RIGHT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?

MICHAEL WAGNER:

WELL, THAT’S A LITTLE BIT OF AN EASIER PLEDGE TO MAKE WHEN YOU ARE SAY NORTH OF 50 AND IN THE U.S. SENATE BECAUSE THE TERMS ARE LONGER AND SO COMMITTING TO A TERM LIMIT THERE IS A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO DO. THE HISTORY OF THESE IN POLITICS — NOT SPEAKING FOR SENATOR JOHNSON AT ALL, BUT IN POLITICS IS THAT USUALLY WHEN PEOPLE MAKE A TERM LIMIT PLEDGE, THEY FIND A WAY TO WEASEL OUT OF IT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT VETERANS AND THOSE ISSUES AND HOW CONTENTIOUS THIS GOT, THIS ISSUE GOT DURING THIS DEBATE. LET’S TAKE A LOOK AT A CLIP WE HAVE ON THAT.

RON JOHNSON:

I’M NOT QUITE SURE WHY SENATOR FEINGOLD OR HIS STAFF DIDN’T RAISE THE ALARM BELLS WHEN THEY GOT MEMOS ADDRESSED TO– HAND-DELIVERED TO SENATOR FEINGOLD OR GIVEN TO REPS OF SENATOR FEINGOLD LAYING OUT THE PROBLEMS WITH TOMAH, DESCRIBING CANDY MAN, CALLING IT CANDY LAND. NOTHING HAPPENED IN 2008, 2009. IS THAT SIMPLY BECAUSE HIS STAFF DIDN’T CARE OR SENATOR FEINGOLD DIDN’T?

RUSS FEINGOLD:

IT’S A SAD MOMENT WHEN A SENATOR FROM WISCONSIN SAYS SOMETHING HE KNOWS FOR SURE IS NOT TRUE. IT WAS TESTIMONY BEFORE HIS COMMITTEE THAT MADE IT VERY CLEAR MY OFFICE NEVER RECEIVED ANYTHING OF THE KIND. AND IN FACT THIS TRAGEDY OCCURRED FIVE YEARS LATER OR SEVERAL YEARS LATER UNDER SENATOR JOHNSON’S WATCH. SO THIS IS A SAD MOMENT, WHEN SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS FOR SURE THAT SOMETHING IS UNTRUE REPEATS IT BECAUSE HE’S A POLITICIAN WHO’S TRYING TO GET RE-ELECTED.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHO DO YOU THINK WON THAT?

MICHAEL WAGNER:

I THOUGHT THAT THE BEGINNING OF THAT WAS SENATOR JOHNSON’S STRONGEST MOMENT OF THE NIGHT, TALKING PASSIONATELY ABOUT VETERANS, TALKING ABOUT HOW EIGHT VETERANS ARE ON HIS STAFF AND GOING AFTER SENATOR FEINGOLD PRETTY AGGRESSIVELY. THE SAD MOMENT I THINK COMMENT FROM FEINGOLD IS ONE WE’LL PROBABLY SEE A LOT IN CLIPS IN THE COMING DAYS. HE FOUGHT BACK HARD AT WHAT WAS JOHNSON’S STRONGEST MOMENT OF THE NIGHT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALL RIGHT. MIKE WAGNER, WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE WITH US.

MICHAEL WAGNER YBERG:

MY PLEASURE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO TONIGHT’S U.S. SENATE DEBATE PITTING CANDIDATES IN A NEWLY-TIGHTENING RACE ACCORDING TO THIS WEEK’S MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL POLL. CHALLENGER RUSS FEINGOLD GETS THE BACKING OF 46% OF LIKELY VOTERS, WHILE 44% SUPPORT JOHNSON AND LIBERTARIAN PHIL ANDERSON GETS 4%. THIS IS THE SECOND-TO-LAST STATEWIDE POLL THE MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL WILL CONDUCT BEFORE ELECTION DAY. THE FINAL SURVEY WILL BE RELEASED THE WEEK BEFORE THE ELECTION. CHARLES FRANKLIN IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE POLL. AND CHARLES THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

CHARLES FRANKLIN:

GOOD TO BE HERE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT ARE THE FACTORS IN YOUR MIND THAT HAVE RESULTED IN THE TIGHTENING OF THIS U.S. SENATE RACE?

CHARLES FRANKLIN:

I THINK THE PRIMARY THINGS ARE RON JOHNSON HAS CONSOLIDATED REPUBLICAN SUPPORT IN A WAY THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS NOT. JOHNSON’S GETTING 89% OF REPUBLICANS. FEINGOLD’S GETTING 90% OF DEMOCRATS. INDEPENDENTS ARE LEANING A LITTLE BIT TO FEINGOLD AT THIS POINT. THE OTHER THING IS OVER THE LAST THREE WEEKS WE DO SEE AN UPWARD MOMENT IN THE PERCENT THAT SAY JOHNSON CARES ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE THEM AND AN UPTICK IN HIS FAVORABILITY NUMBERS. AND FINALLY ABOUT 5% MORE OF THE PUBLIC SAY THEY KNOW ENOUGH TO HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT BOTH JOHNSON AND ABOUT FEINGOLD. WE’VE BEEN WAITING MONTHS FOR PEOPLE TO TUNE IN. THAT’S THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE NOW TUNING IN.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

LET’S GO AHEAD AND LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE NUMBERS HAVING TO DO WITH CARES ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE ME. 45% DESCRIBE JOHNSON AS SOMEONE WHO CARES ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE ME, WHILE 52% DESCRIBE FEINGOLD AS CARING ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE THEM. AS YOU SAY, THESE NUMBERS HAVE GONE UP FOR BOTH CANDIDATES SINCE YOUR LAST SURVEY. AGAIN, IS THIS JUST A MATTER OF THEM GETTING OUT ON THE STUMP AND GETTING ON THE AIR MORE OR —

CHARLES FRANKLIN:

THIS IS THE SORT OF RESULT THAT MAKES YOU BELIEVE THAT TV ADVERTISING REALLY WORKS, BECAUSE RON JOHNSON’S BEEN RUNNING A SERIES OF POSITIVE ADS ABOUT HIMSELF DURING THAT PERIOD THAT EMPHASIZES HIS EMPATHY FOR PEOPLE AND HIS WORKING FOR PEOPLE. AND WE SEE THE POLLS MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION. SO MAYBE IT’S THE ADVERTISING. I CAN’T PROVE IT, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AS TO FAVORABILITY, 43% OF THOSE POLLED HAVE A FAVORABLE VIEW OF RON JOHNSON, WHILE 45% VIEW RUSS FEINGOLD FAVORABLY. THESE NUMBERS HAVE GONE UP FOR JOHNSON AND TICKED SLIGHTLY DOWNWARD FOR FEINGOLD. AGAIN, ADS?

CHARLES FRANKLIN:

MAYBE. THERE ARE ALSO SOME NEGATIVE ADS AGAINST FEINGOLD IN THIS PERIOD AS WELL. WHAT IS STRIKING IS THAT WITH JOHNSON, HIS FAVORABLE AND UNFAVORABLE NUMBERS HAVE BEEN WITHIN A POINT OR TWO OF EACH OTHER FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS. THIS IS THE FIRST MOMENT WHERE WE SEE HIS FAVORABLES GO UP, HIS UNFAVORABLES GO DOWN. WITH FEINGOLD, HIS FAVORABLES ARE MAYBE OFF A LITTLE BIT, BUT HIS UNFAVORABLES ARE UP TWO OR THREE POINTS. THERE DOES SEEM TO BE A LITTLE BIT OF MOTION THERE AS WELL.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

I WANT TO GET TO THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE AND THERE ARE SOME REALLY INTERESTING RESULTS HERE. THIS WEEK’S POLL REALLY SHOWED HOW THE ACCESS HOLLYWOOD TAPE MADE PUBLIC LAST FRIDAY AFFECTED VOTERS’ ATTITUDES. AMONG LIKELY VOTERS FROM THURSDAY, BEFORE THE RELEASE OF THE TAPE, THROUGH SATURDAY AND SUNDAY, SOME MAJOR SHIFTS. THURSDAY, CLINTON WAS AT 40 AND TRUMP WAS AT 41. BY FRIDAY CLINTON WAS UP TO 44% AND TRUMP HAD SLIPPED TO 38. BY THE END OF THE WEEKEND, CLINTON WAS AT 49% SUPPORT AND TRUMP HAD SLIPPED BACK TO 30%.

CHARLES FRANKLIN:

THERE’S REALLY STRIKING NUMBERS HOW BIG THOSE SHIFTS ARE. I’D PUT A COUPLE OF CAVEATS. WE FINISHED INTERVIEWING BEFORE THE DEBATE, SO THE DEBATE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR NUMBERS. THE OTHER THING IS THAT WE HAPPENED TO CATCH THIS RELEASE OF THE TAPE AND ITS IMPACT AND POLITICAL REACTION TO IT UNDOUBTEDLY AT THE HIGH POINT. SO THIS IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST MOVEMENT YOU’D SEE. AS WE MOVE ON AND OTHER ISSUES START TO TAKE OVER, IT WILL PROBABLY COME BACK UP. BUT I THINK IT’S REVEALING THAT THIS WEEKEND HAD A VERY BIG IMPACT IN PERCEPTIONS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SPEAKING OF VERY BIG, LET’S LOOK AT THOSE NUMBERS AS THEY PERTAIN TO WOMEN LIKELY VOTERS. CLINTON STOOD AT 45% ON THURSDAY TO TRUMP’S 36%. FRIDAY CLINTON WAS AT 60% TO TRUMP’S 33%. BY SATURDAY AND SUNDAY, CLINTON WAS AT 56% TO TRUMP’S 23%. HOW OFTEN DO POLLSTERS SEE THESE KINDS OF SHIFTS?

CHARLES FRANKLIN:

YOU JUST VERY RARELY DO. PART OF IT IS THE COINCIDENCE OF BEING IN THE FIELD DOING A SURVEY AT EXACTLY THE RIGHT MOMENT. BUT OTHER IS THE MAGNITUDE OF THIS STORY, THE AMOUNT OF COVERAGE IT GOT AND THE NUMBER OF ELECTED REPUBLICANS AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT REACTED TO IT NEGATIVELY, IN MANY CASES WITHDRAWING THEIR SUPPORT. OTHER CASES MERELY CRITICIZING. ALL OF THAT IS THE PERFECT STORM TO HAVE A BIG IMPACT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALL RIGHT. WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE. CHARLES FRANKLIN, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOUR WORK.

CHARLES FRANKLIN:

THANK YOU.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

VOTER I.D. IS ON THE ROPES AGAIN IN WISCONSIN, AT LEAST THE ADMINISTRATION OF IT. A FEDERAL JUDGE THURSDAY ORDERED THE STATE TO PRODUCE A ONE-PAGE EXPLANATION OF THE PROCESS BY WHICH VOTERS CAN OBTAIN CREDENTIALS FOR THOSE WHO LACK I.D.S TO VOTE. U.S. DISTRICT JUDGE JAMES PETERSON ALSO ORDERED THE STATE TO PRODUCE AN EXPLAINING DOCUMENT FOR APPLICANTS. AND HE ORDERED THE DISTRIBUTION OF THE DOCUMENTS TO MEDIA AND VOTING GROUPS BY MONDAY. JUDGE PETERSON ALSO ORDERED STATE ATTORNEYS IN THE LIBERAL GROUP ONE WISCONSIN INSTITUTE TO COME UP WITH A PUBLIC INFORMATION CAMPAIGN ON THE VOTER I.D. PROCESS, AGAIN BY NEXT WEEK. THE ORDERS COME IN THE WAKE OF THIS WEEK’S COURT HEARING SPARKED BY CHALLENGES TO VOTER I.D. OVER INACCURATE INFORMATION BEING PROVIDED ABOUT THE CREDENTIALING PROCESS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

REPUBLICAN STATE SENATOR RICK GUDEX OF FOND DU LAC DIED THIS WEEK OF A SELF-INFLICTED GUNSHOT WOUND. THE 48-YEAR-OLD FATHER OF TWO HAD SERVED IN THE SENATE SINCE 2013 BUT HAD ANNOUNCED HE WAS RETURNING TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND WOULD NOT RUN FOR RE-ELECTION. THIS NEWS HAS BEEN MET WITH SHOCK AND SADNESS ACROSS THE STATE. THE GOVERNOR HAS ANNOUNCED A SPECIAL ELECTION WILL NOT BE HELD SO CLOSE TO ELECTION DAY. THE OPEN SEAT IN WISCONSIN’S 18TH SENATE DISTRICT IS THE FOCUS OF A REPORT ZAC SCHULTZ HAS BEEN IN THE FIELD WITH THIS FALL AND WE BRING IT TO YOU TONIGHT.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

16 OF THE 33 STATE SENATE SEATS ARE UP FOR ELECTION THIS NOVEMBER, BUT ONE RACE STANDS OUT: THE 18TH SENATE DISTRICT CENTERED AROUND THE CITIES OF OSHKOSH AND FOND DU LAC. MIKE DUFFEY IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OF WISCONSIN.

MIKE DUFFEY:

I THINK OUR FOCUS IS ON THE 18TH. IT’S BEEN COMPETITIVE RECENTLY. THERE’S NO DENYING THAT.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

COMPETITIVE IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT. THE 18TH DISTRICT MAY BE THE ONLY TRUE TOSS-UP SEAT IN THE SENATE. IN 2008, THE REPUBLICAN WON BY JUST 163 VOTES. IN 2011 THE DEMOCRAT WON THE SEAT IN A RECALL. IN 2012, A REPUBLICAN WON IT BACK BY JUST 600 VOTES, BUT HE DECIDED NOT TO RUN AGAIN. AND BOTH CANDIDATES EXPECT ANOTHER CLOSE RACE IN 2016.

DAN FEYEN:

I SEE THIS RACE AS A 50/50 RACE RIGHT NOW.

MARK HARRIS:

THIS IS SUCH A CRAZY ELECTION YEAR THAT I THINK ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN.

MARK HARRIS:

I’M MARK HARRIS. I’M RUNNING FOR STATE SENATE IN THIS DISTRICT.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

DEMOCRAT MARK HARRIS…

DAN FEYEN:

DAN FEYEN. I’M RUNNING FOR STATE SENATE.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

AND REPUBLICAN DAN FEYEN ARE WORKING EVERY CROWD AND SHAKING EVERY HAND, KNOWING THIS IS THE RARE ELECTION WHERE ANY GIVEN VOTER COULD BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN VICTORY AND DEFEAT.

MAN:

YOU’RE GOING TO DO GOOD.

DAN FEYEN:

THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THAT.

MARK HARRIS:

I’M MARK HARRIS. I’M JUST SAYING HI TO PEOPLE. I’M RUNNING FOR STATE SENATE.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

GIVEN THE NATIONAL POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT, IT’S REFRESHING TO FIND TWO CANDIDATES WHO ARE RUNNING ON LOCAL ISSUES AND ACTUALLY SEEM TO RESPECT EACH OTHER.

DAN FEYEN:

NICE GUY. WE RUN INTO EACH OTHER QUITE A BIT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

MARK HARRIS:

HE’S ACTUALLY A PRETTY DECENT GUY ON A FACE-TO-FACE LEVEL.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

FEYEN WORKS IN A PRINTING SHOP AND HAS BEEN THE CHAIRMAN OF THE FOND DU LAC REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR A DECADE. HE WAS RECRUITED TO RUN BY INCUMBENT WHO HELD THE SEAT, REPUBLICAN RICK GUDEX, WHO DIED EARLIER THIS WEEK.

DAN FEYEN:

AND I DO BELIEVE THAT SENATOR GUDEX HAS DONE A GREAT JOB FOR THE CONSTITUENTS IN THE DISTRICT AND THE STATE OF WISCONSIN. I WOULD LOOK TO CONTINUE A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT HE HAS DONE.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

HARRIS IS THE WINNEBAGO COUNTY EXECUTIVE AND IS RUNNING ON HIS FISCAL RECORD.

MARK HARRIS:

THE COUNTY TAX RATE IS THE LOWEST IT’S BEEN IN A DECADE. THE COUNTY SPENDING IS ACTUALLY A LITTLE LOWER THAN WHEN I STARTED 11 YEARS AGO.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

THE 18TH SENATE DISTRICT IS HEAVY ON MANUFACTURING JOBS AND FEYEN SAYS HE’S RUNNING TO CLOSE THE SKILLS GAP AND FIX THE TRANSPORTATION FUNDING ISSUES.

DAN FEYEN:

TRANSPORTATION IS A TOUCHY ISSUE. THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT SAY IT’S JUST FINE THE WAY IT IS, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO HAVE PEOPLE REALIZE THE SYSTEM’S BROKE RIGHT NOW.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

HARRIS TALKS A LOT ABOUT CLEAN DRINKING WATER.

MARK HARRIS:

MANY AREAS OF WISCONSIN ARE SEEING NITRATE CONTAMINATION, MOSTLY FROM MANURE RUNOFF OR FROM FERTILIZER RUNOFF FROM LARGE AGRICULTURAL OPERATIONS.

MARK HARRIS:

HI.

WOMAN:

HI.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

HARRIS LIKELY HAS AN EDGE IN NAME ID BOTH BECAUSE HE’S BEEN ELECTED IN WINNEBAGO COUNTY MULTIPLE TIMES AND BECAUSE HE RAN FOR CONGRESS TWO YEARS AGO, EVENTUALLY LOSING TO GLENN GROTHMAN. BUT IT’S UNCLEAR IF THAT WILL MATTER ON ELECTION DAY.

MARK HARRIS:

I WOULD SAY THIS CAMPAIGN KIND OF STANDS ON THE SHOULDERS OF THAT ONE.

DAN FEYEN:

PEOPLE REALLY DON’T EVEN REMEMBER THAT ANYMORE. PEOPLE HAVE SHORT MEMORIES NOWADAYS.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

THE SHORT MEMORIES OF VOTERS MAY ALSO BE A FACTOR IN ANOTHER IMPORTANT SENATE RACE, THIS TIME IN THE NEIGHBORING 14TH DISTRICT.

BRIAN SMITH:

I GOT TO TELL YOU, I THOUGHT AT ONE TIME LUTHER WAS A FRIEND TO WAUPACA.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

LESS THAN A DECADE AGO, DEMOCRAT BRIAN SMITH VOTED FOR REPUBLICAN SENATOR LUTHER OLSEN. TODAY HE’S CHALLENGING HIM AND CALLING HIM A LIAR.

BRIAN SMITH:

HE’S BLATANTLY BASICALLY LYING TO PEOPLE ABOUT HIS RECORD.

BRIAN SMITH:

THANKS. THANKS FOR COMING IN.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

BRIAN SMITH HAS BEEN THE MAYOR OF WAUPACA FOR 15 YEARS AND REMEMBERS WHEN OLSEN EARNED HIS REPUTATION AS A MODERATE REPUBLICAN AND A STRONG SUPPORTER OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS. SMITH SAYS THAT CHANGED SINCE 2011, AND THE ARRIVAL OF GOVERNOR WALKER.

BRIAN SMITH:

I DON’T FEEL HE’S CHANGED. HE HAS CHANGED. WE CAN LOOK AT HIS VOTING RECORD. HE HAS CHANGED IMMENSELY. HE’S WENT FROM WHAT MOST PEOPLE FELT WAS A MODERATE TO A VERY CONSERVATIVE PERSON.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

LUTHER OLSEN DECLINED MULTIPLE REQUESTS FOR AN INTERVIEW FOR THIS STORY.

BRIAN SMITH:

YEAH. I THINK THIS SEAT IS OPEN TO BE TAKEN.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

IT’S NOT JUST OLSEN’S VOTING RECORD THAT HAS SMITH OUTRAGED. IT’S WHAT HE HASN’T DONE. SPECIFICALLY IN REGARDS TO THE WISCONSIN VETERANS’ HOME AT KING, A STATE-RUN SKILLED NURSING HOME. A RECENT INVESTIGATIVE REPORT BY THE CAPITAL TIMES NEWSPAPER REVEALED CONCERNS ABOUT QUALITY OF CARE AT KING. AFTER THE STORY BROKE, SENATOR OLSEN REQUESTED AN AUDIT, SOMETHING SMITH SAYS DEMOCRATS WERE TRYING TO GET HIM TO ASK FOR A YEAR BEFORE.

BRIAN SMITH:

QUITE HONESTLY, I THINK HE WAS LAZY AND DIDN’T COME TO KING, DIDN’T TALK TO EMPLOYEES, DIDN’T TALK TO ADMINISTRATION ABOUT IT.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

ANOTHER RECENT STORY SHOWED OLSEN SKIPPED A TOUR OF KING WITH REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN A PIE JUDGING CONTEST AT A LOCAL FAIR.

MARTHA LANING:

WHEN PEOPLE HEAR THAT, THEIR EYES JUST OPEN UP AND GO, ARE YOU KIDDING?

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

MARTHA LANING IS THE CHAIR OF THE DEMOCRAT PARTY OF WISCONSIN. SHE’S COUNTING ON MARK HARRIS AND BRIAN SMITH TO FLIP TWO SEATS TO THE DEMOCRATS.

MARTHA LANING:

THE ONE WAY WE CAN STOP THE REPUBLICAN AGENDA HERE IN WISCONSIN IS TO TAKE BACK THE STATE SENATE.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

BUT REPUBLICANS CONTROL THE SENATE 19-14, SO DEMOCRATS NEED TO FLIP THREE SEATS TO TAKE CONTROL OF THE CHAMBER. MIKE DUFFEY WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY DOESN’T SEE THAT HAPPENING.

MIKE DUFFEY:

IT’S NOT JUST IN THE 18TH, IT’S STATEWIDE. REPUBLICANS HAVE THIS RECORD OF SUCCESS OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS. AND IT’S NOT JUST AT THE BALLOT BOX. REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS HAVE BROUGHT CONSERVATIVE, BOLD CONSERVATIVE REFORMS TO THE STATE OF WISCONSIN AND THE VOTERS HAVE REWARDED THEM WITH RE-ELECTION.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

WITHOUT GOVERNOR WALKER ON THE BALLOT, STATE ISSUES AREN’T GETTING A LOT OF ATTENTION. TURNOUT WILL BE DETERMINED BY THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE. AND NOBODY IS SURE WHETHER TRADITIONAL REPUBLICANS TURNED OFF BY DONALD TRUMP WILL IMPACT THE RACES DOWN-BALLOT.

MIKE DUFFEY:

SOME FOLKS ARE TAKING THEIR TIME TO COME ON BOARD, BUT WE’RE SEEING IT MORE AND MORE EVERY DAY.

MARTHA LANING:

I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO EITHER CHOOSE TO STAY HOME BECAUSE THEY’RE SO DISCOURAGED BY THE REPUBLICAN TOP OF THE TICKET OR THEY’RE GOING TO REALLY ANALYZE WHAT’S HAPPENED TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

MARK HARRIS:

IS THERE ANYTHING THAT’S OF CONCERN TO YOU?

WOMAN:

THE ONLY THING I’M WORRIED ABOUT IS TRUMP.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

BACK IN THE 18TH, MARK HARRIS AND DAN FEYEN AREN’T SURE WHAT TO EXPECT.

DAN FEYEN:

I RUN INTO REPUBLICANS THAT ARE A LITTLE CONFLICTED SOMETIMES. I ALSO RUN INTO DEMOCRATS THAT ARE CONFLICTED AS WELL.

MARK HARRIS:

I EVEN THINK THERE WILL BE SOME PEOPLE THAT WON’T VOTE FOR A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE IN THIS ROUND OR MAYBE VOTE FOR LIBERTARIAN.

ZAC SCHULTZ:

THEY JUST HOPE THEIR VOTERS WILL FOCUS ON THE 18TH.

DAN FEYEN:

WHEN YOU GOING TO DOORS, IT’S MORE ABOUT FOCUSING ON THE ISSUES AT HAND, NOT THE BIGGER PICTURE.

MARK HARRIS:

THIS ISN’T A VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON OR DONALD TRUMP. THIS IS A VOTE FOR WHO THEY THINK WILL BE THE BEST SENATE SENATOR.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

NEXT WEEK, ZAC SCHULTZ WILL TAKE A LOOK AT THE ISSUE OF TRUST IN THIS ELECTION AND WHY IT APPEARS TO BE IN SUCH SHORT SUPPLY. IF YOU MISSED TONIGHT U.S. SENATOR’S DEBATE YOU CAN FIND IT ONLINE AT wisconsinvote.org. NEXT WEEK, TOGETHER WITH WISCONSIN PUBLIC RADIO, WE BEGIN THREE WEEKS ON THE ROAD, WITH LIVE FRIDAY BROADCASTS OF THE JOY CARDIN SHOW AND “HERE AND NOW.” ON OCTOBER 21, “HERE AND NOW” WILL BROADCAST LIVE AT 7:30 P.M. FROM THRIVE FOODERY IN WAUSAU’S RIVER DISTRICT. “HERE AND NOW” IS LIVE IN LA CROSSE AT THE PEARL STREET BREWERY ON OCTOBER 28. AND WE WILL SPEND THE FINAL FRIDAY BEFORE THE ELECTION AT THE ATTIC COFFEE AND BOOKSTORE IN THE GREEN BAY ARTS DISTRICT. WE WILL HAVE MEDIA WORKSHOPS ON THE ELECTION IN EACH OF THOSE CITIES TO HELP YOU PREPARE TO VOTE. FOR MORE ON ALL OF OUR ROAD SHOW ACTIVITIES, GO TO wisconsinvote.org. THAT’S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT. I’M FREDERICA FREYBERG. HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

ANNOUNCER:

FUNDING FOR “HERE AND NOW” IS PROVIDED, IN PART, BY FRIENDS OF WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION. FOR MORE INFORMATION ON “HERE AND NOW’S” 2016 ELECTION COVERAGE, GO TO wisconsinvote.org.