FREDERICA FREYBERG:

THE TRUMP TRAIN ROARS INTO GREEN BAY TONIGHT WHERE A RALLY IS HAPPENING EVEN AS WE SPEAK. MANY IN AND OUT OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SAY THAT TRAIN DERAILED THIS WEEK, WHAT WITH INSULTS TO GRIEVING MILITARY FAMILIES AND FELLOW REPUBLICANS ALIKE. SOME ARE NOT SURPRISED THAT AS TRUMP TAKES THE GREEN BAY STAGE THIS HOUR, NONE OF THE STATE’S HIGHEST ELECTED REPUBLICAN OFFICIALS IS IN ATTENDANCE, INCLUDING HOUSE SPEAKER PAUL RYAN, GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER AND INCUMBENT U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE RON JOHNSON. CONSERVATIVE MILWAUKEE RADIO TALK SHOW HOST CHARLIE SYKES IS ALSO NOT IN GREEN BAY TONIGHT. HE’S ONE OF THE NATIONAL LEADERS IN THE “NEVER TRUMP” MOVEMENT. HE’S IN MILWAUKEE. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

CHARLIE SYKES:

THANK YOU.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHY AREN’T WISCONSIN’S MOST IMPORTANT REPUBLICAN ELECTED OFFICIALS WITH DONALD TRUMP FOR TONIGHT’S RALLY?

CHARLIE SYKES:

WELL, IT’S KIND OF EXTRAORDINARY WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT. YOU HAVE A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE THAT COMES TO THE STATE, AND I THINK IT’S AN INDICATION OF HOW THEY DON’T WANT TO — THEY WANT TO KEEP THEIR DISTANCE. THEY NEED TO SUPPORT HIM, AT LEAST GIVE HIM LIP SERVICE, BUT THEY WANT TO STAND BEHIND HIM, BUT IN A DIFFERENT ZIP CODE, APPARENTLY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT KIND OF A ROCK AND HARD PLACE DOES THAT PUT THESE PEOPLE IN?

CHARLIE SYKES:

WELL, IT’S MUCH MORE OF A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE THAN IT WAS EVEN A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO. AS YOU POINTED OUT, THIS HAS BEEN AN ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE WEEK FOR DONALD TRUMP. I THINK THAT FOR CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS, PEOPLE LIKE SCOTT WALKER AND PAUL RYAN AND RON JOHNSON, REINCE PRIEBUS, WHO HAD BEEN HOPING THAT AT SOME POINT DONALD TRUMP WOULD MAKE A PIVOT. THAT HE WAS GOING TO GROW UP, THAT HE WAS GOING TO BECOME MORE DISCIPLINED. NONE OF THAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

YOU DESCRIBED THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN RIGHT NOW AS A QUOTE DUMPSTER FIRE INSIDE A NUCLEAR MELTDOWN. THAT BAD, HUH?

CHARLIE SYKES:

YEAH. THE PHYSICS ARE PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT SHAKY THERE. BUT YEAH. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE LAST SIX DAYS, INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON HILLARY CLINTON, HE’S BEEN ATTACKING FELLOW REPUBLICANS, GOLD STAR PARENTS, THROWING BABIES OUT OF HIS RALLIES, MAKING UP STORIES ABOUT THE NFL. ABOUT THE ONLY WAY THIS COULD GET WORSE IS IF HE GOES TO GREEN BAY AND DOES A SHOUT-OUT TO THE CHICAGO BEARS TONIGHT. AND IT THINK THIS IS PART OF THE DILEMMA. WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE IN HIS OWN CAMPAIGN TALKING ABOUT WE NEED TO HAVE AN INTERVENTION, WELL YOU KNOW WHAT – YOU CAN HAVE AN INTERVENTION, BUT HE’S NOT GOING TO CHANGE. DONALD TRUMP IS WHO HE IS. THAT’S THE COLD, HARD REALITY THAT A LOT OF REPUBLICANS ARE COMING TO GRIPS WITH IN THE LAST WEEK.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND IF HE DID CHANGE, IF HE DID PIVOT, IF SOME KIND OF INTERVENTION CHANGED HIM, WOULDN’T THEN THE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT HIM THINK OF THAT AS BEING UNAUTHENTIC?

CHARLIE SYKES:

YES. THAT’S PART OF THE PROBLEM. IT WOULD BE INAUTHENTIC. WHAT WOULD BE THE OVER/UNDER ON HOW LONG THAT WOULD THAT LAST? I MEAN HE’S 70 YEARS OLD. YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR POSITION. YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR PACKAGING. WHAT YOU CAN’T CHANGE YOUR CHARACTER, YOUR JUDGMENT, YOUR PERSONALITY. DONALD TRUMP IS WHO HE IS. I THINK THAT FOR PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN HOPING THAT IT’S GOING TO GET BETTER, IT’S NOT GOING TO GET BETTER. THIS IS THE TRIUMPH OF HOPE OVER EXPERIENCE. I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY HERE IN WISCONSIN YOU DO SEE THIS DISTANCING.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

MEANWHILE, NOW DONALD TRUMP SAYS HE WILL ENDORSE PAUL RYAN. IS THAT AN ENDORSEMENT, IN YOUR MIND, THAT THE SPEAKER WANTS?

CHARLIE SYKES:

HE DOESN’T NEED IT. SEE, THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS. WHEN DONALD TRUMP REFUSED TO ENDORSE PAUL RYAN, IT DIDN’T HURT PAUL RYAN AT ALL. PAUL RYAN IS GOING TO WIN EASILY. HE’S GOING TO GET 70% OF THE VOTE. WHAT IT DID, THOUGH, WAS TO MAKE IT MUCH, MUCH HARDER FOR DONALD TRUMP TO WIN IN WISCONSIN. LOOK, REINCE PRIEBUS, MIKE PENCE ARE MAKING A PUSH TO BUILD A BRIDGE TO CONSERVATIVES IN WISCONSIN. THEY NEED CONSERVATIVES IN SOUTHEASTERN WISCONSIN IF DONALD TRUMP CAN WIN. I DON’T THINK HE’S GOING TO WIN. BUT YOU NEED TO DO THAT. SO WHAT DOES DONALD TRUMP DO? HE BASICALLY COMES UP BEHIND PENCE AND PRIEBUS AND HE BLOWS UP THAT BRIDGE. SO THE DAMAGE WAS QUITE SEVERE. I THINK YOU SAW THAT WITH THAT OPEN LETTER FROM SPEAKER ROBIN VOS TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND TO DONALD TRUMP. YOU GOT THAT REAL SENSE OF WHAT BAD JUDGMENT IT WAS. SO DONALD TRUMP BEING AGAIN BEING PETULANT, BEING CHILDISH AND DOING HIMSELF NO FAVORS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

YOU REFERENCED ROBIN VOS, THE ASSEMBLY SPEAKER, PUTTING OUT A STATEMENT SAYING HE IS EMBARRASSED BY DONALD TRUMP AND YET HE STILL SUPPORTS HIM.

CHARLIE SYKES:

YEAH. AND THEN, OF COURSE, THIS IS THE REALLY PAINFUL POSITION THAT A LOT OF THESE FOLKS ARE IN, TO DISTANCE THEMSELVES, SAY, OKAY, HIS COMMENTS, YOU KNOW, ABOUT THE MEXICAN JUDGE WERE BEYOND THE PALE. HIS COMMENTS ABOUT THE GOLD STAR PARENTS ARE BEYOND THE PALE. HE’S SHOWS TERRIBLE JUDGMENT. WE’RE STILL GOING TO VOTE FOR HIM. THAT IS A VERY, VERY TENUOUS SITUATION. IT’S GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW MANY REPUBLICANS STAY IN THAT POSITION BECAUSE IT’S OBVIOUSLY AWKWARD.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO WHAT COULD ALL OF THIS DO TO DOWN-BALLOT RACES IN WISCONSIN AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY FOR THE REPUBLICANS?

CHARLIE SYKES:

WELL, IT CAN BE DEVASTATING. THERE’S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. AND THAT’S WHAT YOU’RE LOOKING AT IN THE POLLS. YOU HAVE DOUBLE-DIGIT LEADS FOR HILLARY CLINTON IN THE GENERAL ELECTION OVER DONALD TRUMP. BUT THEN YOU’RE STARTING TO SEE THE BLEED-OUT FOR THE SENATE RACES AND THE CONGRESSIONAL RACES. AND ULTIMATELY THE ONLY THING THAT’S GOING TO SAVE REPUBLICANS DOWN-BALLOT IS IF PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO SPLIT THEIR TICKETS. THE ONLY WAY THEY’RE GOING TO SPLIT THEIR TICKETS IS IF THEY SEE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP AND OTHER REPUBLICANS. THAT’S WHY THIS ATTEMPT TO HAVE IT BOTH WAYS I THINK IS GOING TO BE PROBLEMATIC. IT’S NOT GOING TO WORK OUT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

VERY BRIEFLY, WITH ABOUT A HALF A MINUTE LEFT, WHO DO YOU BLAME FOR ALL THIS?

CHARLIE SYKES:

DONALD TRUMP. DONALD TRUMP AND THE REPUBLICANS WHO DIDN’T STAND UP AGAINST HIM. WHAT’S HAPPENING NOW WAS COMPLETELY PREDICTABLE. SOME PEOPLE ACTUALLY PREDICTED IT. SOME PEOPLE WARNED THEM ABOUT IT. BUT HERE’S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BASICALLY SURRENDERS ITS PRINCIPLES AND LET’S SOMEBODY AS UNSTABLE AS DONALD TRUMP BECOME THEIR NOMINEE AND WHAT A SURPRISE THAT HE TURNS OUT TO BE AN UNSTABLE NOMINEE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

CHARLIE SYKES, THANKS VERY MUCH.

CHARLIE SYKES:

THANK YOU.