Here & Now

Borowski Goes Over Senate Race PolitiFact Investigations

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

KEEPING UP ON WHAT’S TRUE AND WHAT’S NOT, WHAT’S A FLIP-FLOP AND WHAT’S PANTS ON FIRE, POLITIFACT WISCONSIN IS IN FULL SWING THIS ELECTION SEASON. TONIGHT WE LOOK AT A COUPLE OF THEIR LATEST FACT-FINDERS SPECIFIC TO THE U.S. SENATE RACE IN WISCONSIN. REPUBLICAN INCUMBENT RON JOHNSON AND FORMER U.S. SENATOR DEMOCRAT RUSS FEINGOLD RUNNING TOWARD NOVEMBER IN A REMATCH. POLITIFACT WISCONSIN EDITOR GREG BOROWSKI JOINS US FROM MILWAUKEE. THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

GREG BOROWSKI:

HAPPY TO DO IT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WELL, SO WE WANTED TO LOOK AT TWO CLAIMS THAT YOU LOOKED AT, EACH MADE BY ONE OF THE CANDIDATES. FIRST FROM A NEW AD FROM RUSS FEINGOLD TALKING ABOUT RON JOHNSON’S VOTES CONCERNING TAX BREAKS AND AMERICAN JOBS.

MAN:

IN CONGRESS HE VOTED FIVE TIMES FOR TAX BREAKS THAT HELPED COMPANIES SHIP WISCONSIN JOBS OVERSEAS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO CUTTING TO THE CHASE, YOU RATED THIS FALSE. WHY?

GREG BOROWSKI:

WELL, THE FIRST THING TO REMEMBER ON THAT CLAIM IS THERE REALLY ARE NO TAX BREAKS THAT WERE CREATED SPECIFICALLY TO SHIP JOBS OVERSEAS. IT’S SORT OF ILLOGICAL TO THINK ABOUT. THE VOTES THAT WERE BEING CITED ARE ONES THAT WERE LARGELY SYMBOLIC. ONES THAT APPLIED TO COMPANIES THAT MOVED JOBS ANYWHERE EVEN WITHIN THE UNITED STATES. SO IT’S JUST A CLAIM THAT HAD REALLY NO REAL BASIS IN FACT THAT WAS BEING MADE BY FORMER SENATOR FEINGOLD.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND YET SENATOR JOHNSON DID IN FACT VOTE FIVE TIMES IN OPPOSITION TO DENYING TAX DEDUCTIONS OR ENDING LOOPHOLES, BUT AGAIN THEY WERE SYMBOLIC OR THEY HAD NO FORCE OF LAW. WHY IS THAT AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION TO YOU, THE FACT-FINDER?

GREG BOROWSKI:

WELL, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE CLAIM AND THE RECORD ON IT IN CONTEXT OF WHAT THESE VOTES WERE FOR. IN THIS CASE, THERE WERE THINGS WE’RE FAMILIAR WITH IN LEGISLATIVE BODIES IN MADISON AND WASHINGTON D.C. WHERE ONE SIDE WILL PUT VOTES UP THAT THEY KNOW WILL BE TOUGH VOTES FOR THE OTHER SIDE. THESE VOTES IN QUESTION CAME UP IN A BUDGET MATTER WHEN ANY TAX-RELATED CHANGES HAVE TO BE DONE ORIGINATE IN THE HOUSE AND DONE THROUGH OTHER MEASURES. SO THERE WAS REALLY NO — NOTHING THAT WAS GOING TO COME OF THESE EVEN IF THEY HAD PASSED. AND SENATOR JOHNSON HAD MANY OTHER REASONS, FOR INSTANCE, TO VOTE NO PERHAPS THAN THIS SPECIFIC ONE, WHICH IS WHAT SENATOR FEINGOLD’S CAMPAIGN IS CITING.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT’S BEEN THE CANDIDATE’S RESPONSE TO YOUR RATINGS ON THIS ONE?

GREG BOROWSKI:

WE HAVEN’T HAD ANY COMPLAINTS BACK AND FORTH ON EITHER SIDE ON THIS ONE. I THINK THIS IS ONE WHERE IN AN AD YOU THROW IT OUT THERE AND YOU HOPE IT STICKS. BUT IN THIS CASE IT DIDN’T REALLY SEEM TO HAVE A BASIS TO BE MADE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

LET’S MOVE TO A CLAIM MADE BY RON JOHNSON NEXT DURING A RADIO INTERVIEW THIS SUMMER. HE WAS TALKING ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING WHEN HE SAID SOMETHING THAT STOOD OUT TO POLITIFACT.

RON JOHNSON:

FIRST OF ALL, THE CLIMATE HASN’T WARMED IN QUITE A FEW YEARS. I MEAN, THAT IS PROVEN SCIENTIFICALLY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

HOW DID YOU RATE THIS CLAIM?

GREG BOROWSKI:

WE RATED THAT CLAIM FALSE AS WELL, BECAUSE THE SCIENTIFIC PART IN PARTICULAR, SETTING ASIDE THE CAUSES AND THEIR BELIEF IN WHAT MAY BE CAUSING THE CLIMATE TO BE WARMER, IT IS IN FACT WARMER. THE TEMPERATURE HAS SHOWN THAT. SENATOR JOHNSON SAYS THE RATE OF CHANGE HAS SLOWED DOWN, BUT THAT’S LIKE SAYING YOU’RE DRIVING A CAR AND YOU WENT FROM 70 MILES AN HOUR TO 50 MILES AN HOUR. THAT DOESN’T MEAN YOU STOPPED OR REVERSED. I JUST MEANS THAT IT SLOWED DOWN. AND IN FACT THE TEMPERATURES FOR 2015 AND 2014 WERE THE HIGHEST ON RECORD. WE RATED THIS AS FALSE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

YOU ALSO SAID IN YOUR NARRATIVE, DESCRIBED THIS AS OVERHEATED. WHAT DID HIS CAMPAIGN SAY ABOUT WHERE HE GOT THIS TO STATE THIS THIS WAY IN THIS RADIO INTERVIEW?

GREG BOROWSKI:

HE CITED SOME INFORMATION FROM NASA. SO THESE ARE ACTUAL REPORTS THAT HE CITED, BUT I THINK IT WAS A CASE WHERE THEY WERE JUST MISINTERPRETED OR MISAPPLIED. AGAIN, THEY SHOWED THAT THE RATE OF WARMING HAS BEEN SLOWING DOWN, BUT THAT DOESN’T MEAN IT’S DECREASED OR GONE, YOU KNOW, STOPPED. IT JUST MEANS THAT IT’S NOT WARMING AT THE PACE IT WAS BEFORE. AS I MENTIONED, THE LAST TWO YEARS ON RECORD WERE THE HIGHEST EVER. SO CLEARLY IT HASN’T GONE DOWN IN RECENT YEARS. IT’S GONE UP IN RECENT YEARS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND IN FACT POLITIFACT HAS KIND OF LOOKED AT THIS VERY QUESTION BEFORE, RATING THESE KINDS OF STATEMENTS ON THE PART OF PEOPLE AS FALSE. ARE THESE KIND OF GLOBAL WARMING CLAIMS EXAMPLES, IN YOUR MIND, OF IF YOU SAY IT ENOUGH IT RINGS TRUE? OR WHAT’S GOING ON?

GREG BOROWSKI:

WELL, I MEAN, PEOPLE — CANDIDATES OFTEN ARE SPEAKING TO A PARTICULAR CONSTITUENCY. IN THIS CASE I THINK SENATOR JOHNSON PROBABLY MADE THE COMMENT IN MORE OF AN OFFHAND MATTER THAN A TV AD, FOCUSED AND DIRECTED WITH A PURPOSE IN MIND. SOME PEOPLE NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT IT AND NO MATTER WHAT STATISTICS YOU CITE, THEY’RE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE IT. THEY’RE GOING TO BELIEVE WHAT THEY BELIEVE. AND CERTAINLY THIS IS AN EXAMPLE, THIS ISSUE WHERE CLAIMS KEEP GETTING BROUGHT UP. THEY KEEP GETTING DEBUNKED. AND YET THEY GET BROUGHT UP YET AGAIN. THAT’S I GUESS THE POLITICAL WORLD WE LIVE IN THESE DAYS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

I GUESS IT IS. GREG BOROWSKI FROM THE MILWAUKEE JOURNAL SENTINEL, POLITIFACT WISCONSIN, THANKS VERY MUCH.

GREG BOROWSKI:

YOU’RE WELCOME.