FREDERICA FREYBERG:

THE EXPANSION OF THE SCHOOL VOUCHER PROGRAM IN THE STATE BUDGET REDUCES STATE FUNDING FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS BY $48 MILLION DURING THE NEXT TWO YEARS AND THAT AMOUNT GOES TO SUPPORT PRIVATE SCHOOLS. OF THE MONEY SPENT ON THE PRIVATE VOUCHER SCHOOL PROGRAM SINCE 2011, THE PRESIDENT OF THE WISCONSIN EDUCATION ASSOCIATION COUNCIL, BETSY KIPPERS, CALLS IT A BILLION DOLLAR WASTE. BETSY KIPPERS JOINS US NOW AND THANKS VERY MUCH FOR DOING SO.

BETSY KIPPERS:

THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO WHY DO YOU CALL IT A WASTE?

BETSY KIPPERS:

WISCONSIN PARENTS HAVE MADE THEIR CHOICE, AND THEIR CHOICE IS WISCONSIN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD PUBLIC SCHOOLS. THEY’RE THE SCHOOLS THAT SERVE EVERY STUDENT. DOESN’T MATTER WHERE THEY LIVE, WHAT THEIR CIRCUMSTANCE IS. WE SERVE EVERY STUDENT IN OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS, AND THAT’S SO IMPORTANT. SO OUR TAX DOLLARS SHOULD GO TO THOSE PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND NOT TO PRIVATE VOUCHER OUTFITS WHO ARE ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY AT THE COMMUNITY OR LOCAL LEVEL.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND YET A GROWING NUMBER OF PARENTS AND FAMILIES AND STUDENTS ARE CHOOSING THESE PRIVATE SCHOOLS. SO WHEN YOU SAY WISCONSINITES HAVE CHOSEN THEIR SCHOOLS AND THEY ARE PUBLIC, HOW DO YOU THEN EXPLAIN KIND OF THE INCREASE IN ENROLLMENT NUMBERS IN THESE PRIVATE CHOICE SCHOOLS?

BETSY KIPPERS:

THE LARGE MAJORITY OF STUDENTS IN THE STATE ATTEND PUBLIC SCHOOLS. IN ADDITION, IF YOU LOOK AT THE INCREASED ENROLLMENT OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS IN THE VOUCHER SCHOOLS, THE MAJOR NUMBER OF THOSE STUDENTS, THE MAJORITY, 75% TO 80%, WERE ALREADY IN PRIVATE SCHOOLS. IN FACT, THEY HAVE NEVER ATTENDED A PUBLIC SCHOOL. THERE WAS NO CHOICE TO BE MADE. THEY HAD ALREADY BEEN ATTENDING THOSE SCHOOLS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND WE DO KNOW, THOUGH, THAT ALL CAPS COME OFF ENROLLMENT FOR PRIVATE SCHOOLS AFTER ABOUT A DECADE. IF IT SEEMS LIKE A BAD CHOICE IN YOUR MIND NOW, WHAT ABOUT WHEN THERE ARE KIND OF NO CAPS ON THIS PROGRAM? WHAT DOES THAT PORTEND FOR PUBLIC K-12 IN WISCONSIN?

BETSY KIPPERS:

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY STUDENT IN THIS STATE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A GREAT PUBLIC SCHOOL. THERE ARE MANY, MANY SCHOOL DISTRICTS WHO WOULD NEVER, EVER HAVE THE ABILITY IN THEIR LOCAL COMMUNITY TO HAVE A VOUCHER SCHOOL JUST BECAUSE OF THE SIZE OF THE COMMUNITY AND THE

DISTRICT AND THE AVAILABILITY OF EVEN A FACILITY. SO WE’VE REALLY CREATED TWO UNEQUAL SYSTEMS. AND THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM IS THE ONE WHO’S GOING TO SERVE EVERY SINGLE STUDENT NO MATTER WHAT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

NOW, BUDGET ANALYSIS SHOWS THAT THE STATE IS SPENDING ABOUT $1,000 LESS ON EACH STUDENT IN PUBLIC SCHOOL NOW COMPARED TO 2008. WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE IN THE CLASSROOM?

BETSY KIPPERS:

TEACHERS ARE SEEING LARGER CLASS SIZES. THEY’RE SPENDING MORE OF THEIR OWN MONEY ON SUPPLIES FOR THEIR STUDENTS. AND WE’RE SEEING THINGS NOT BEING REPLACED AS FREQUENTLY AS WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE, LIKE TEXTBOOKS, TECHNOLOGY, THOSE THINGS THAT DIRECTLY IMPACT INSTRUCTION FOR OUR STUDENTS, INCLUDING IMPORTANT SERVICES LIKE COUNSELORS, NURSE SERVICES, ALL THOSE WRAP-AROUND SERVICES THAT REALLY HELP SUPPORT OUR STUDENTS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND SO SOME OF THOSE KINDS OF REDUCTIONS AT THE CLASSROOM LEVEL, AGAIN, COME AT THE SAME TIME AS KIND OF THIS EXPANSION OF THE PRIVATE SCHOOL VOUCHER PROGRAMS, AND PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAVE TO TAKE DECREASED STATE AID FOR EVERY STUDENT THAT SWITCHES TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL, AS YOU KNOW, USING THIS TUITION VOUCHER. BUT THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS DO GET TO COUNT THOSE STUDENTS FOR ENROLLMENT AND FUNDING PURPOSES. SO DOESN’T THAT SOFTEN THE BLOW SOMEWHAT?

BETSY KIPPERS:

THE REALITY IS THAT WE TAKE EVERY STUDENT NO MATTER WHAT. AND SOME STUDENTS ARE MORE EXPENSIVE TO EDUCATE THAN OTHERS. SO THE BLOW IS NOT NECESSARILY OFFSET BY THAT COUNTING OF THE STUDENT. WHAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE IS THAT EVERY STUDENT HAS AN OPPORTUNITY NO MATTER WHERE THEY LIVE. AND THAT’S WHAT THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS DO.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

HOW MANY TEACHERS DOES WEAC STILL REPRESENT?

BETSY KIPPERS:

WE REPRESENT A LARGE MAJORITY OF THE TEACHERS THROUGHOUT THE STATE. IN EVERY SINGLE SCHOOL DISTRICT IN THIS STATE WE STILL HAVE NUMBERS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

BECAUSE WHAT WE’RE SEEING THIS WEEK IS A NEW AD OUT BY GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER AND HIS PAC THAT HE’S AIRING IN IOWA, AND IT’S ALL ABOUT HIM FIGHTING AND WINNING AFTER ACT 10. WHAT IS IT LIKE FOR YOU TO SEE HIM RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT ON THIS ISSUE OF FIGHTING REALLY MOSTLY WEAC AND WINNING?

BETSY KIPPERS:

I THINK HE HAS THE WRONG VISION OF WHAT WAS REALLY HAPPENING DURING ACT 10 BECAUSE THAT WASN’T ONLY WEAC OUT THERE. THAT WAS PARENTS AND STUDENTS AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS STANDING UP ON BEHALF OF THEIR PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM. IT WAS NOT JUST A UNION EVENT. IT WAS THE FACT THAT THEY WERE RECOGNIZING THEY WANT THEIR PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND THEY WANTED TO SUPPORT THEIR PUBLIC SCHOOLS. AND THAT’S WHY THEY WERE THERE WITH US. THERE WEREN’T 150,000 WEAC MEMBERS EVER. AND THERE WERE MORE THAN THAT MANY PEOPLE AT THE CAPITOL FREQUENTLY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND YET NOW FOUR YEARS ON AFTER THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THAT LAW, HAS IT MADE A BIG DIFFERENCE ON THE GROUND IN THE CLASSROOM?

BETSY KIPPERS:

ON THE GROUND IN THE CLASSROOM, THE SCHOOL FUNDING HAS MADE THE BIGGEST IMPACT, NOT JUST ACT 10. WE HAVE GOT TO ADDRESS THE FACT THAT WE NEED TO FUND OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND NOT FUND PRIVATE OUTFITS. AND THAT’S WHAT’S HAPPENING WITH THIS VOUCHER PROGRAM.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALL RIGHT. BETSY KIPPERS, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

BETSY KIPPERS:

THANK YOU.