BUT, FIRST, IN THE WAKE OF AN UNDERCOVER VIDEO PURPORTING TO SHOW PLANNED PARENTHOOD IS PROFITING FROM ABORTIONS BY THE SALE OF FETAL TISSUE, WISCONSIN REPUBLICAN LEGISLATORS HAVE ONCE AGAIN INTRODUCED A BILL IN THIS STATE TO OUTLAW SELLING, DONATING AND EXPERIMENTING WITH CELLS, TISSUES, ORGANS OR OTHER FETAL BODY PARTS DERIVED FROM ABORTIONS. SCIENTISTS IN WISCONSIN CONDUCT MEDICAL RESEARCH USING FETAL TISSUE AND CELLS AND SAY THIS BILL WOULD DEVASTATE THAT WORK. WE’LL HEAR FROM THE DEAN OF THE U.W. MEDICAL SCHOOL IN A MOMENT. WHILE PLANNED PARENTHOOD OF WISCONSIN DOES NOT PROVIDE FETAL TISSUE TO RESEARCHERS, IT IS ACQUIRED HERE FROM FOUR OUT-OF-STATE FEDERALLY-LICENSED TISSUE BANKS. THE BILL’S AUTHOR REPRESENTATIVE ANDRE JACQUE JOINS US NOW. THANKS VERY MUCH FOR DOING SO.
ANDRE JACQUE:
ABSOLUTELY. GREAT TO BE HERE.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
WELL, SO IF THERE WERE NO ABORTIONS, THERE WOULD BE NO NEW FETAL TISSUE FOR USE IN MEDICAL RESEARCH. SO AT ITS ESSENCE HERE, IS THIS ABOUT THE PROCUREMENT OF THAT TISSUE OR ABOUT ABORTIONS?
ANDRE JACQUE:
WELL, IT’S ABOUT A FEW THINGS REALLY. ONE PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT IT ALREADY IS ILLEGAL TO SELL ABORTED FETAL TISSUE HERE IN WISCONSIN. THAT’S NOT TRUE. IT ONLY APPLIES TO INTERSTATE COMMERCE SO CROSSING STATE BORDERS. WITHIN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN, WHICH WE KNOW HAS OCCURRED HERE IN WISCONSIN IN THE PAST. IN FACT, FOR MANY YEARS, FOR DECADES EVEN, DENNIS CHRISTIANSON, THE LOCAL MADISON ABORTIONIST, ALSO WAS ON THE FACULTY AT THE U.W. AND CURRENTLY AS AN ABORTIONIST AFFILIATED IN MILWAUKEE, CONTINUES THE SAME PRACTICE OF BASICALLY UNREGULATED TRANSFER OF ABORTED CHILDREN’S TISSUE. BUT THIS BILL DOES NOT BAN TISSUE DONATION OR RESEARCH. ONLY THAT IT CANNOT BE SOURCED FROM ABORTION SO IT DOES NOT STOP ANY PARTICULAR TYPE OF EXPERIMENTATION, TYPE OF CELLS. IT’S SOMETHING THAT IS VERY DELINEATED TO INDUCED ABORTION AS LONG DEFINED IN THE STATUTE.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
YOU SAY IT DOESN’T BAN IT EXCEPT AS IT’S GOTTEN FROM ABORTIONS.
ANDRE JACQUE:
CORRECT.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
AND THAT I UNDERSTAND IS WHERE THIS FETAL TISSUE COMES FROM.
ANDRE JACQUE:
NO. ACTUALLY IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF FETAL TISSUE RESEARCH THAT HAS GONE ON IN THE U.S., FOR MANY YEARS IT WAS NOT UNTIL 1993 THAT IT WAS EVEN LEGAL TO EXPERIMENT ON ABORTED FETAL TISSUE AND RECEIVE FEDERAL FUNDING FOR DECADES AND DECADES THE PRIMARY SOURCE WAS FROM MISCARRIAGES, STILL BIRTHS, SPONTANEOUS ABORTIONS BUT ARE NOT CONSIDERED ABORTIONS WITHIN WISCONSIN STATUTES OR THIS LEGISLATION.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
NOW WISCONSIN PLANNED PARENTHOOD DOES NOT PROVIDE FETAL TISSUE TO ANYONE. SO WHY WOULD WE NEED THIS LAW HERE?
ANDRE JACQUE:
WELL, AGAIN THAT’S THEIR CLAIM. THIS LEGISLATION WOULD KEEP THEM FROM BEING ABLE TO ESTABLISH THAT IN THE FUTURE. JUST AS WE KNOW AGAIN THAT IT HAS OCCURRED AT THE U.W. IN FACT, NOW I WAS A STUDENT HERE AT U.W. MADISON. I WAS IN THE MEDICAL SCHOLARS PROGRAM. BECAME AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THERE WAS TISSUE FROM ABORTED CHILDREN THAT WAS BEING SHUTTLED FROM THE MADISON ABORTION CLINIC OVER TO THE UNIVERSITY. IN FACT, THERE WERE THANK-YOUS IN THE LINER NOTES FOR VARIOUS RESEARCH THAT WAS CONDUCTED IN THE 1990s HERE ON CAMPUS. AFTER DEAN GOLDEN ACTUALLY CAME TO THE U.W. CAMPUS, YOU’LL REMEMBER THAT THERE WAS A PROPOSAL FOR THE U.W. SURGERY CENTER TO OPERATE A LATE-TERM ABORTION CLINIC AND IT WAS PUBLICLY CITED BY U.W. OFFICIALS TO UTILIZE THE TISSUE FROM ABORTED CHILDREN KILLED AT THAT FACILITY TO GO TOWARDS U.W. RESEARCH. SO THAT WOULD CERTAINLY BE ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF WHY THIS LEGISLATION IS CERTAINLY PERTINENT. THAT’S REALLY WHY I BROUGHT THIS LEGISLATION FORWARD EACH SESSION I’VE BEEN IN THE LEGISLATURE. THIS IS NOT SOME REACTIONARY THING THAT’S JUST COMING FORWARD NOW. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I’VE BEEN WORK ON FOR MANY YEARS AND QUITE HONESTLY WHEN I WAS ON WISCONSIN PUBLIC RADIO FOUR YEARS AGO, THE U.W. OR ANYBODY REALLY WAS UNWILLING TO PUT ANYBODY ON AIR AGAINST ME.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
DEAN GOLDEN SAYS THAT CURRENTLY THIS FETAL TISSUE IS PROCURED BY THESE FEDERALLY LICENSED TISSUE BANKS. AND SO WHAT’S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?
ANDRE JACQUE:
HE’S SAYING FOR THE U.W. OF COURSE, ORIGINALLY THEY SAID IT WAS ONLY FROM THREE TISSUE BANKS. NOW, OF COURSE, WHAT CAME OUT AT THE HEARING OR AFTER THE HEARING IS THE FACT THAT THERE ARE ACTUALLY FOUR SOURCES. ONE OF THEM IS A.B.R., WHICH WAS DIRECTLY LINKED TO THE UNDERCOVER VIDEOS, CLOSE RELATION BETWEEN A.B.R. PROCURING TISSUE FROM PLANNED PARENTHOOD ABORTION CLINICS. THAT’S AGAIN SOMETHING THAT DEAN GOLDEN WAS ASKED A DIRECT QUESTION AT THE HEARING AND SAID THAT HE DIDN’T KNOW. I THINK IT’S PRETTY CLEAR THAT THEY KNOW. DID KNOW AND ARE NOW ASKING QUESTIONS BECAUSE THEY WERE CAUGHT.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
SO WHAT EXACTLY KIND OF ARE YOU ALLEGING ABOUT U.W. RESEARCHERS AND THE USE OF FETAL TISSUE?
ANDRE JACQUE:
I’M SIMPLY SAYING THAT THERE’S OTHER METHODS OF RESEARCH AND EXPERIMENTATION THAT CAN BE CONDUCTED ETHICALLY. I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WAS VERY UPSET ABOUT AT THE HEARING, WAS THE FACT THAT THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF TANTALIZING THINGS BEING THROWN OUT, BASICALLY AN ENDS JUSTIFIES THE MEANS SORT OF AN ARGUMENT. TALKING ABOUT SPECIFICALLY ALZHEIMER’S AS THE VERY FIRST DISEASE THAT WAS MENTIONED FOR POTENTIAL CURES OR TREATMENTS. YOU KNOW, RIGHT AFTER THE HEARING, I GOT AN EMAIL FROM THE PUBLIC POLICY DIRECTOR, THE LOBBYIST FOR 17 YEARS FOR THE WISCONSIN ALZHEIMER’S AND DEMENTIA ALLIANCE. HE WAS SHOCKED TO HEAR THAT CLAIM. HE HAS CHECKED WITH THE DIRECTOR OF THE WISCONSIN ALZHEIMER’S DISEASE RESEARCH CENTER. AND WAS ASSURED THAT THERE’S NO RESEARCH CONDUCTED AT THE WADRC, OR THE WAI UTILIZING FETAL TISSUES AND THAT IT’S NOT A PROMISING AVENUE FOR A CURE OR TREATMENT FOR ALZHEIMER’S DISEASE.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
SO DO YOU THINK — WHAT ARE YOU SAYING ABOUT THE U.W.?
ANDRE JACQUE:
I’M SAYING THERE ARE PLENTY OF HOLES IN WHAT THEY’RE PUBLICLY PUTTING FORWARD AND THEY KNOW IT. I THINK THEY HAVE UNFORTUNATELY BEEN CAUGHT UTILIZE A VARIETY OF RESEARCH PRACTICES THAT SIMPLY ARE NOT CONDUCTED AT THE VAST MAJORITY OF FACILITIES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY AND I THINK IT’S UNFORTUNATE THAT THEY ARE PUBLICLY MISREPRESENTING THINGS TO MAKE IT SEEM AS IF THIS IS SOMETHING VITAL AND NECESSARY WHEN WE HAD EXPERT TESTIMONY FROM MEDICAL ETHICISTS AT THE HEARING, AS WELL AS SUBMITTED TESTIMONY THAT MAKES IT CLEAR THAT IT’S NOT THE CASE.
FREDERICA FREYBERG:
WE LEAVE IT THERE, REPRESENTATIVE JACQUE. THANKS VERY MUCH.
ANDRE JACQUE:
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, FREDERICA.
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