Frederica Freyberg:

Turning to another major state issue, is having a frac sand mine next to your house a property value killer? Sounds obvious, right? But a new report from the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism shows that frac sand mines can prove a boon to land owners. Alison Dirr from the center joins us with details on her latest reporting on frac sand mines in Wisconsin. Alison, thanks very much for being here.

Alison Dirr:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

How have mines proliferated in Wisconsin since the center started its reporting on them?

Alison Dirr:

We started reporting back in, I think, July of 2011. That was really the first mine that we heard of. There were, you know, a number of mines. But in our latest update of our frac sand map we found about 124 permitted or active facilities.

Frederica Freyberg:

So it’s very definitely a growing industry in this state.

Alison Dirr:

Right.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, your latest reporting concerns property values near the mines, as we said in our introduction. What is an example of a homeowner who was negatively affected by a nearby frac sand, according to your reporting?

Alison Dirr:

Yeah. So I returned to Tunnel City, which was the first story that we covered. One of the property owners who lives just north of the mine argues that his asking price of his house has had to drop by about $25,000 in order to sell, and he’s thinking he might actually have to go lower in the future. He’s arguing that there’s a mine across the highway and that’s part of the reason.

Frederica Freyberg:

And is that the same person that you spoke of in your article that feels like he probably won’t even be able to sell his house, and he’s now living out of state?

Alison Dirr:

Yeah. He’s actually living in Utah now, so that's part of the reason he's really trying to get rid of this house. He’s thinking he might have better luck this summer, but, you know, he’s still kind of questioning.

Frederica Freyberg:

So he’s right across the street from the mine?

Alison Dirr:

Right, yeah. There’s a highway dividing the mine and then a little subdivision just north of it.

Frederica Freyberg:

And have realtors told him or otherwise potential buyers said, you know, I really like your house, but I’m sorry, I don’t like the proximity.

Alison Dirr:

Yeah. So I talked with one of the real estate agents who’s kind of helping him, and she said that was one of the concerns that homeowners– or potential buyers had expressed.

Frederica Freyberg:

You also, though, found landowners who really find of made out as a result of a nearby frac sand mine. Describe what that was.

Alison Dirr:

Yeah. So his neighbors actually sold about 130 acres to Unimin, which is the company that's just south of them. And they made about $1.5 million. And then just bought a house right north of the mine, obviously knowing that it’s there. You know, you see this very different kind of experience or expectation among homeowners and people who are trying to sell.

Frederica Freyberg:

So that person sold their land to the mine for $1.5. What was that land valued at, you know, market price?

Alison Dirr:

I think it was about $225,000.

Frederica Freyberg:

So that is making out in a big way.

Alison Dirr:

Right.

Frederica Freyberg:

But that kind of thing sets up neighbor-to-neighbor difficulty, I imagine, one guy who can’t even sell his house, he says, and the other guy who just got rich.

Alison Dirr:

Right. I don’t know how much these two neighbors have actually talked about the differences. I don’t know how much they were actually aware of it. But, you know, I think, you know, there are just these really different experiences.

Frederica Freyberg:

And you also report on something that is new, I think. You learned that some of the mine companies are actually drawing up contracts with homeowners. What is that about?

Alison Dirr:

Yeah. So another part of the story focuses on EOG up in the town of Howard and Chippewa County. They have a property value guarantee, so it’s part of their agreement with the town of Howard and EOG, to make sure that 11 landowners adjacent to the mine actually don’t lose if they try to sell their houses. Yeah, so their properties are guaranteed.

Frederica Freyberg:

And is that something that is increasing? Or what do you know about the prevalence of those kinds of guarantees or contracts?

Alison Dirr:

I know of two other cases, one with EOG and other in Trempeleau County. But those are the only other two that I’ve heard of.

Frederica Freyberg:

That sounds– for the landowners, that sounds like a pretty good deal.

Alison Dirr:

Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, some of the landowners– Or I guess the ones who got the guarantee I talked said, this is land that’s been in our family so long. Some cared about the mine and some didn’t. They all said, we don’t want to sell, this land is really important to us. I talked to another landowner who actually didn’t get a property value guarantee. He lives nearby. He doesn’t care. You know, he said, I don’t think this is going to affect my values and it doesn’t bother me to live near a mine.

Frederica Freyberg:

Good reporting. Alison Dirr, thanks very much.

Alison Dirr:

Thanks for having me.