Frederica Freyberg:

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here and Now,” a first look at health care changes that may be tucked into Congressional tax plans. After that, a closer look at this fall’s state legislative session. Assembly party leaders are here. Then in our look ahead, another Democrat steps into the race for governor. We’ll introduce you to Mahlon Mitchell. It’s “Here and Now” for November 17.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here and Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.

Frederica Freyberg:

Following passage of the Republican tax cut bill late this week in the U.S. House, the U.S. Senate now takes up its version. For his part, Wisconsin Republican Senator Ron Johnson said he cannot support the measure saying, “We have an opportunity to enact paradigm-shifting tax reform that makes American businesses globally competitive. In doing so, it is important to maintain the domestic competitive position and balance between large publicly-traded C corporations and pass-through entities. These businesses truly are the engines of innovation and job creation throughout our economy and they should not be left behind. Unfortunately, neither the House nor Senate bill provide fair treatment. So I do not support either in their current versions.” Now, Senate leaders can afford only two Republican defections to win passage. The Senate bill, which is expected to go to a vote as soon as the week after Thanksgiving also includes a repeal of the Affordable Care Act’s individual mandate, something the House bill does not include. The individual mandate requires people carry health insurance and exacts a penalty for people who do not. That penalty is $695 for an adult. What happens if this mandate goes away? We asked the health policy director at the UW Population Health Institute Donna Friedsam. And thanks very much for being here.

Donna Friedsam:

Happy to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:

So to that question, what does happen if this individual mandate is eliminated?

Donna Friedsam:

The people that are looking to eliminate the mandate consider it a tax on people who are being required to purchase a product they may not want to purchase. And suggest that people are having to pay for something they don’t want and perhaps something that is not up to what they’re interested in buying. But if the mandate goes away, there’s a number of unintended consequences we may see happen. Number one, the people who are healthy and younger who won’t — will no longer be compelled to purchase insurance, will likely not purchase insurance. And when that happens, the people that remain in the market will be the older people or people who have more health needs and that means the insurance premiums will increase for those people. And overall insurance premiums are expected to increase 10%. That’s according to the GAO or more likely more other people suggest.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, I've read that this individual mandate was not as effective as planned. How true is that?

Donna Friedsam:

The individual mandate is considered to be a very important part of the Affordable Care Act in terms of bringing people to purchase their insurance coverage and has been important in getting people to consider their insurance options. Now, many people have indeed looked at the penalty and considered whether the penalty is something they want to take instead of purchasing insurance, particularly younger, healthier people. And there have been a number of exceptions in the — to the mandate that allow people to opt out of purchasing insurance. But overall the carriers in the market consider the individual mandate to be one of the key components to allowing them to offer coverage in the Affordable Care Act.

Frederica Freyberg:

What's the interplay between the individual mandate and pre-existing conditions?

Donna Friedsam:

So the Affordable Care Act or otherwise known as Obamacare requires insurance companies to provide insurance to all people regardless of their pre-existing conditions or their health status. So the only way they can do that at an affordable price is to make sure that they have enough healthy people also enrolling in coverage so that everyone shares the risk and thus the costs are shared across a broad risk pool or broad population of enrolled people. If people who are young and healthy think they don’t need to participate in insurance, the only people that will enroll in insurance are people who currently have health needs or have high health risks. And then the insurance companies will price their products to reflect that high need, and the premiums will become very expensive and in all likelihood unaffordable for many people.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, you addressed this a little bit earlier, but I've read that the projection is that 13 million people would end up not being covered if this mandate goes away. And I just wonder whether this number represents people who never wanted coverage in the first place or is it because without the mandate, coverage just becomes too expensive?

Donna Friedsam:

The Republicans who are advocating for this change in the tax bill are suggesting that the 13 million people might be people who are simply opting out of insurance and not buying a product that they don’t want. It seems that some people will indeed be opting out for those reasons, but many people will be not purchasing coverage because they’re going to find it unaffordable, further unaffordable. Not to say people aren’t finding it unaffordable today. That’s another challenge we have to address. But people will find it more unaffordable as the premiums increase with this change. And as well without the mandate, people will no longer be compelled to even look for coverage. And currently many of the people that go look for coverage go not knowing what kinds of federal subsidies are available. And the savings that are contemplated in the tax bill are there because they’re expecting that all the people that are currently getting federal subsidies will no longer be taking those subsidies because they won’t be going to look for their coverage and claiming the federal subsidies that are available.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, my understanding is about 243,000 people in Wisconsin are on Obamacare plans right now. How might this repeal or elimination of the individual mandate affect Wisconsin?

Donna Friedsam:

So we’re currently in an open enrollment period right now in Obamacare. So it started on November 1. And it goes through December 15. And those are for plans that start on January 1. And people should know no matter what’s happening in Congress right now open enrollment for 2018 is in existence and they need to go and look for coverage. But indeed if the individual mandate goes away, then the premiums going forward will increase and in all likelihood, people will find it more difficult to afford coverage, particularly people who don’t have access to the federal premiums that are available. That being said, the majority of people who look for coverage through the Affordable Care Act do have access to federal premium subsidies. The concern here again is without the mandate, people will not go look for coverage and will never find out about the subsidies that are available for them.

Frederica Freyberg:

At what point does all this chipping away at the Affordable Care Act law just mean the whole thing collapses?

Donna Friedsam:

Ultimately the more deterrent there is for people to look for coverage and find out what’s available for them. And particularly the more deterrents there are for healthier people to go enroll in coverage, the less of a business incentive there is for insurance companies to participate in the program and to offer products. And that’s when the insurance carriers say, “We can’t offer a product that is going to work for our company and make it financially viable.” And that’s when it does become a question of whether the program can continue. What we need is a stable insurance market where people do have incentives to enroll and make it a financially viable system so that insurance carriers see a business model there that they can continue to offer products.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Donna Friedsam, thanks very much.

Donna Friedsam:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Eyes are on Washington, what with work and dissension over major tax overhaul and other more salacious matters. But the Wisconsin legislature has been powering through its session. In tonight’s closer look, a check-in with Assembly Speaker Robin Vos. We’ll hear from the Minority Leader coming up. And Speaker Vos, thanks very much for being here.

Robin Vos:

Happy to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:

So you join us today to talk about the Assembly session. Foxconn stands out.

Robin Vos:

Yeah. It’s one of the biggest accomplishments we probably had in our state’s history. The largest foreign investment in generations. Thousands of good-paying jobs coming to southeastern Wisconsin. And luckily thousands of good-paying jobs will probably filter their way throughout the entire state. Governor Walker often talks about the impact of large corporations and the suppliers that they give business to through the state. So Oshkosh Corporation as an example; 300 different suppliers that continue to help a company that does a lot less in business than Foxconn will. Still incredibly important to the Fox Valley. It’s a good example of how one large corporation like that – while there’s good-paying jobs that’ll be just in Racine County and southeastern Wisconsin – it will also help the entire state.

Frederica Freyberg:

What should taxpayers make, though, of the governor not mentioning Foxconn in his re-election announcement? I mean, is he distancing himself from it?

Robin Vos:

No. I was just with him at the signing. I think he’s incredibly proud, as all of us are, of the opportunity for us to create 13,000 good-paying jobs in Wisconsin. I think that for the critics, I wish they would take some time to actually look and say let’s focus on positives about Wisconsin. They are so busy constantly berating every possible good thing that happens, trying to talk down Wisconsin. I don’t understand that.

Frederica Freyberg:

Will your members in districts outside southeast Wisconsin campaign on this?

Robin Vos:

I think they’ll mention it. I mean it’s not the entire agenda that we’ve had. We’ve done lots of good things. If you look at our budget as an example. Tax cuts, getting rid of the personal property tax, more money than we’ve invested in schools in close to a generation. At the same time, we’ve been able to make sure we focus on our priorities of making sure we have more funding for worker training. More funding for mental health care. All of those things are lots to be proud of. Now Foxconn is one important bill this session but it’s certainly not the only one.

Frederica Freyberg:

Speaking of this session, it’s not over. There are several bills still hanging out there. What is your reaction to Republican Senator Steve Nass saying he expects you to kill conservative bills after the flap where you blasted Nass and two other Republicans senators for their negotiating tactics during the budget?

Robin Vos:

Well it’s kind of typical of what Steve Nass does, right? He’s kind of a frame-thrower. That’s what everybody knows him as. Conservative legislation has happened the entire time I’ve been speaker. We’re going to continue to push an agenda that makes Wisconsin a place that people want to work. They want to retire and they certainly get to keep more of their own money. Now I know he has a problem actually communicating with his own caucus members to be able to get bills through his caucus. So if he gets bills through, send them to the Assembly. If they’re good legislation, they’ll pass in our House.

Frederica Freyberg:

On some of these bills, what's your position on concealed carry without a permit?

Robin Vos:

I've always been in favor of that as a general idea. Now Governor Walker has come out saying the system we have works fine. He’s right about that. There’s not a huge need to make a change. I think we passed concealed carry and Democrats said it was going to be like the Wild West. We certainly haven’t seen that. It’s been very responsible. We see tens of thousands of Wisconsinites getting a concealed carry permit without issue. So I certainly am open to the discussion but I want to make sure Governor Walker and my colleagues are in the same place.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about banning fetal tissue research?

Robin Vos:

There’s two competing bills. I think they both have merits. Neither one has the ability to pass in our caucus at this point. We’ll continue the discussions to try to find common ground. I think the vast majority of Republicans have considered themselves pro-life and we want to make sure we do those things, but we’re also pro-research. And that’s why I have a preference between the two bills. But certainly either one addresses that concern.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about civil forfeiture reform?

Robin Vos:

That's something that we have talked about. I’ve been a supporter of that for a long time. Representative Mark Born has taken the lead in our caucus to try to find a consensus between those who worry about protecting people’s fourth amendment rights but also the ability of law enforcement to use those funds to help combat drugs and all the opioid crisis we have. We’ll find a consensus and I hope we’re able to pass that too.

Frederica Freyberg:

So you’re not stopping down bills.

Robin Vos:

Not at all, as long as they’re good ideas.

Frederica Freyberg:

Why didn’t you appoint any Democrats to the task force that will study building a new prison?

Robin Vos:

Yeah, it's actually not about just building a new prison. I mean I know once again, continuing with their theme, it’s all politics all the time. I was incredibly disappointed that one of the first things that Gordon Hintz did was to take somebody off of WEDC, as a Democrat appointee, who had been there the entire time to understand the Foxconn deal and put somebody on who was running as a Democrat for governor. It’s not surprising to me that as we are not talking about reforming sentencing or any of those kinds of things, that is not part of this commission’s purview. It’s really looking at the fact that we’re at 142% of our prison capacity and we do not have the ability to put more people in jail without additional facilities.

Frederica Freyberg:

Why no Democrats on the task force?

Robin Vos:

Yeah, we had three people came to me during the budget process: Michael Schraa is the chairman of the corrections committee. Mark Born is our expert on correctional issues. And we also had David Steffen who asked for it. So those three asked for it. Those three got on.

Frederica Freyberg:

What do you think about the potential for Democratic gains in next year’s elections?

Robin Vos:

You know it's interesting because I’ve heard this now ever since 2010 that of course, after the recall we’re going to make gains. We gained a seat. In 2014 of course Governor Walker was on the ballot. It was supposed to be a repudiation of him. We gained a seat. Here we are in 2016 with Donald Trump on the ballot. They guaranteed they were going to make gains and we gained another one. I saw what happened in Virginia. The vast majority of those gains were in seats that Hillary Clinton carried in 2016. We don’t have many of those in Wisconsin. She was not carrying Wisconsin as a state. I’m confident we’ll maintain a good, strong majority and continue our conservative reforms.

Frederica Freyberg:

Robin Vos, thanks very much.

Robin Vos:

Thanks, Fred.

Frederica Freyberg:

Speaker Vos holds a commanding majority of 64 out of 99 members. Minority Leader Gordon Hintz of course hopes to pick up a few seats. He joins us now. Thanks for doing so.

Gordon Hintz:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

Robin Vos says he’s not worried at all about Democrats picking up any seats in the next election. What do you say to that?

Gordon Hintz:

Well that's the Speaker’s prerogative. I think the big thing we have going for us that we saw in Virginia last week is we’ve had eight years of failed Republican leadership, both by the legislature and the governor. After eight years, we literally have cracks in our transportation infrastructure. I think that we’ve seen that we’ve cut funding for the UW system significantly. We’ve had cuts to K-12 education and mostly we’ve had ineffective economic growth. We’re a little more than half the national average. We lag behind our neighboring states. Everything that the governor has promised hasn’t worked. Lower — bad economic growth and we’ve done it at sacrificing our environment and our future financial security in terms of budgets.

Frederica Freyberg:

So you think that resonates with the voters because one of the messages of course of the administration is the unemployment rate is historically low.

Gordon Hintz:

Wisconsin has always had a lower unemployment rate than the national average. If you have low unemployment but slow job growth, that’s not an economic indicator. What that shows is you have a people shortage. One of the things we’ve seen over the last five years is we’ve had an out-migration of working age people to other states where there’s greater opportunity and no one’s moving here. I think this is going to be one of the telling narratives of the 2018 election. Jobs will follow people. And if you don’t have clean drinking water, if you don’t have well-funded public transportation systems, if you don’t have innovative and dynamic communities that are funded partially by the state, this isn’t going to be an attractive place for people to live.

Frederica Freyberg:

Foxconn is now signed and delivered and on its way. Of course, Speaker Vos thinks that means it’s a great day in Wisconsin. Are most of your members still sour on it?

Gordon Hintz:

It's not just our members who are sour. It’s the public statewide. Again, you’d be hard-pressed to find too many people maybe outside of southeast Wisconsin that thinks it’s a good idea to give $3 billion of taxpayer money to a foreign corporation, the largest taxpayer subsidy in United States history, when the best potential payback if everything happens is 25 years. We’ve had a number of start-ups, small business people say if we had spent a fourth of that supporting new business investments, growing small business, providing capital, you’d be a lot better economically.

Frederica Freyberg:

It's a done deal now. Anything to do?

Gordon Hintz:

Hold them accountable. Look, if it’s going to happen, I hope it’s the best deal possible, but I want to make sure that we are getting good information, that we’re holding WEDC accountable. Their track record hasn’t been great. When you’re charging that agency with both the oversight and the enforcement, I think there are a lot of questions to ask. But yeah. I mean, look, I hope for the best, but the reality is the opportunity cost is the biggest loss for Wisconsin taxpayers.

Frederica Freyberg:

Speaking of WEDC, we asked Robin Vos why there were no Democrats on the prison task force and he said because his members approached him and wanted to be on it. So this is where the WEDC part comes in. He said that by way of explaining this, he said that he took issue with you assigning Dana Wachs to the WEDC board when he’s running for governor. Was that appointment a politically deliberate one on your part?

Gordon Hintz:

Only in the sense that — no. My colleague Dana has been an outspoken critic of Foxconn. He’s an attorney who’s used to reading a lot of detailed contract language. Certainly wanted someone who I thought was going to hold things accountable. He’s a legislative colleague. I’m the Minority Leader. I wanted to put someone on there who I knew was going to hold this governor and administration accountable.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about the prison task force? Are you upset that there were no Dems on that that Vos was appointing?

Gordon Hintz:

I'm more disappointed. Every other committee that we have, they come across, tell us they just created a new international committee, asked us for six members. Senator Fitzgerald obviously reached out to Senator Shilling and asked for a Democrat on there. I think it has more to do with hiding the fact that there is no prison policy. That our numbers are only escalating, that the costs are costing taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars more. They don’t want to be held accountable. You can hide behind the whole appointment thing but the reality is the speaker and this governor’s track record on corrections is a disaster.

Frederica Freyberg:

Do you have any idea whether or not the governor will appoint a Democrat?

Gordon Hintz:

I don’t. But we had a number of members, especially our minority members, who have a lot of communities of color who are disproportionately-impacted by our correction policies. And I think it would be a good move on his part if this committee is actually going to have any meaning or effectiveness at addressing a lot of problems with our criminal justice system.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Lots more to talk about but we’ll leave it there. Thanks very much.

Gordon Hintz:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now a look ahead to the 2018 governor’s race and the latest in a growing list of announced Democratic primary candidates. This week Mahlon Mitchell entered the race. His second try at state-wide office. He ran unsuccessfully for lieutenant governor during the Walker recall election of 2012. He is the president of Professional Firefighters of Wisconsin. Mahlon Mitchell joins us now. Thanks very much for being here.

Mahlon Mitchell:

Thanks for having me again. Been a while.

Frederica Freyberg:

Yeah. We talk about this big cast of Democratic candidates. What sets you apart?

Mahlon Mitchell:

Well, I think it’s leadership. I’ve been a firefighter for 20 years giving back to my community. As firefighters, we lead. We don’t divide. We unite each other. We have one common goal and that is to help others. As firefighters we respond to those on the worst days of their lives. When they are at their worst, we have to be at our best. So doing that for 20 years, giving back to the community, leading, I want to take that some style of leadership to the executive branch in our state capitol and bring people together and do what’s right for all people in the state of Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

On the issues, what do you think is the most important thing Wisconsin needs to do for its education system?

Mahlon Mitchell:

We need to fully fund it. We need to get back to levels that actually give the resources and the real tools for our teachers to teach our greatest commodity which are our children. I have a son in 8th grade. I have a daughter that’s a freshman at UW-Oshkosh. Education is one of the most important things and a pillars of the state of Wisconsin. You can’t take $1.6 billion from public education in your first two budgets and then put $600 million back in your last budget before you run for office and call that progress. We need to actually fund our schools, make sure we take care of our greatest commodity, which is our children.

Frederica Freyberg:

If the Affordable Care Act remains in place, would you like to accept expanded Medicaid in Wisconsin?

Mahlon Mitchell:

Yes. I think we should have done that. We have to — one of the core issues we’re going to talk about around the state is health care. We should have taken the Medicaid expansion. There should never be a time where a child can’t go to the doctor because their parents can’t afford it. There should never be a time where a senior has to decide between paying their rent or getting their prescriptions filled. It’s just one of the core things that — and we talk about economics. One of the core things in someone’s checkbook or their own pocket, in their own financial status, is health care and paying premiums, co-pays and deductibles. We need to make health care more affordable. We can do that in Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

What in your mind is the best way to grow good-paying jobs in Wisconsin?

Mahlon Mitchell:

I think we need to invest in Wisconsinites that are here now. I think we need job training and apprenticeship programs and need to build around our ecosystem we have in place now. We need to raise wages. And once we raise wages, when we have more as the middle class and those living below middle class wages, we spend the money. And when we’re spending more money, there’s more goods and services that need to be produced. More goods and services need to be produced, more jobs need to be created. That’s more people working. It drives our economy.

Frederica Freyberg:

What's your position on the $3 billion Foxconn deal, which is now moving ahead?

Mahlon Mitchell:

Look, it’s signed into law. But let’s talk about what Foxconn really is. It’s a massive giveaway of $3 billion of hard-earned taxpayer dollars to a foreign company. What we need to do is invest in our infrastructure we have now. You can’t say that we don’t have money for education, we don’t have enough money to adequately fund our roads, we don’t have enough money to take care of our people with health care, but we have enough money to give $3 billion to a foreign company. We need to build our roads. We need to make sure our education system is fully funded. We need to make sure people have decent health care. We need to raise wages. Once we do those things, people will come to Wisconsin. We won’t have to give a golden parachute to a foreign company. They’ll want to come here. Foxconn would come here without us giving them $3 billion because we have the great workforce in Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

You’ve talked twice about raising wages. How do you do that?

Mahlon Mitchell:

You have to have family-sustaining jobs. The governor talks a lot about the unemployment rate, which is low. But there’s more to an economy, there’s more to our state than just the unemployment rate. You actually have to build jobs from the inside out, meaning that you have to have job training and apprenticeship for sustaining jobs. Right now, the governor talks about our unemployment rate, but people are working two or three jobs just to make ends meet. We actually have to have family-sustaining jobs.

Frederica Freyberg:

What in your mind would be the best way to create sustainable funding for Wisconsin's highways?

Mahlon Mitchell:

I think we need to look at the gas tax. I mean there’s a lot of options on the table. I know there’s been talk about toll roads. We need to get back together, have bipartisan legislation. We need to sit down at the table and make sure that we fully fund our roads. We’re 49th right now as far as roads go in the country. That’s unacceptable. We need to look at the gas tax. We need to look at different ways to fully fund our roads. The gas tax, I think, a minimal tax, is one way that we can help build our roads back again.

Frederica Freyberg:

Why do you think you could unseat Scott Walker?

Mahlon Mitchell:

Well, I think it’s going to take a different type of candidate. We’ve been with Governor Walker for eight years. Eight years to do the things we just talked about. And he hasn’t led. He ran for president, which God bless him, that’s his right to do. But for him right now, Wisconsin's plan B. We need leadership in the capitol. We need leadership from our governor. We haven’t seen that in the last eight years. So now he’s coming back in plan B and asking for years 9, 10, 11 and 12. It’s time for a change. It’s time for us to turn a page. We need leadership and I believe I can provide that leadership that’s needed desperately in the state of Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

Mahlon Mitchell, thanks very much.

Mahlon Mitchell:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

We have some sad news this week as Wisconsin Public Television mourns the loss of one of our own. Nancy Zieman, the long-time host of “Sewing with Nancy” passed away Tuesday after a long battle with cancer. Zieman took to the air in 1982 to share her love of sewing with her audience. After 35 years, she hosted the longest-running sewing show on television. The program continues to air on public television stations across the United States. A long-time producer with the show, Laurie Gorman, says of Zieman, Nancy was a savvy entrepreneur, talented colleague and dear friend. She will be greatly missed by the staff at WPT and her many viewers and fans across the country. Zieman is survived by her husband and two children. And finally tonight, a look ahead to next week, when in the midst of the gun deer season, we will have an update on the status of chronic wasting disease in Wisconsin. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here and Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.