Frederica Freyberg:

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here and Now,” a first look at the state budget, which moved forward this week. After that, a look ahead to the fall congressional session with U.S. Representatives Moore and Gallagher. Then a closer look at the widening field of Dems running for governor. Tonight Mike McCabe is here. It’s “Here and Now” for September 15.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here and Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.

Frederica Freyberg:

A first look tonight at the final flurry of the legislature working in tandem to pass the $76 billion state budget and the $3 billion Foxconn deal this week. Even as four Republican senators held out on voting in favor of the budget, with three of them making demands, right down to the wire.

[Roll call vote]

Frederica Freyberg:

The state senate went in today on the budget, even with its majority leader not sure late into the week that he had the votes to pass it. Three Republican senators were demanding changes in return for their votes. Changes including raising the income limit for school choice and banning the UW from spending money on diversity training.

Robin Vos:

To root out every area of waste and abuse.

Frederica Freyberg:

That angered the Assembly Speaker, who did not want to make substantive changes at the last minute.

Robin Vos:

Wholesale changes where somebody says “I've got all kinds of things throughout the process and now I want one more thing to vote yes.” That’s not how our process works. And we’re not going to be held hostage to individuals who have some kind of a wish list that they want after the process has continued.

Frederica Freyberg:

The Assembly this week passed the state budget on a 57-39 vote, with five Republicans voting no along with all Democrats. Minority Leader Peter Barca bemoaned the document for failing to find a funding source for roads and highways.

Peter Barca:

You can ask the various people that are involved in this industry. And every one of them will tell you that this is an absolute catastrophe. That the delays are going to be enormous. It’s going to hurt rural districts and rural places around the state that are already beginning to turn some of their asphalt roads into gravel.

Robin Vos:

You will not hear me say this again today, but the Democrats have a point. We have tried as hard as we could to find a solution for transportation. Now, we have taken a step backwards to say this budget today ensures that the problem does not get worse under our watch.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, the Assembly and Senate passed the $3 billion Foxconn incentive package and it awaits the governor's signature. Now the remaining work lies with the senate which is on the floor right now after some drama and deal-making today over whether the majority leader had the votes to pass the budget. WPR’s Capitol Bureau Chief Shawn Johnson is just outside the chambers tonight. Thanks for joining us.

Shawn Johnson:

Hi Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

Any idea whether those holdouts will in fact vote in the affirmative on this budget?

Shawn Johnson:

So they’ve said that they would. You had three Republican senators–actually four Republican senators– going into today saying that they were no votes. We’ve now heard from three of them or from their offices that they will vote for this budget. Those senators were Steve Nass, Chris Kapenga and Duey Stroebel. And they came to that conclusion that they were going to be yes votes after a discussion with the governor this morning via phone while the governor was in South Korea.

Frederica Freyberg:

So how did the Republican leader and the governor get those holdouts to this yes votes? Any ideas?

Shawn Johnson:

We don’t know the specifics of that yet. They’ve said that they’re going to announce those details after the budget vote. So we’ve got a situation tonight where about 17 amendments are going to be discussed in the Senate tonight. They won’t pass. There will be changes made to the budget that we know. But they’re going to come after this is all said and done. So we’re going to hear about those details later. But we know that the governor made some type of veto assurances to these Republican senators that made them feel comfortable enough that they could support the plan.

Frederica Freyberg:

So how unusual is all of this? To have the majority go this close over a major bill like the budget and all of this right at the last moment? In the midst of it?

Shawn Johnson:

So it’s not unusual for a budget to go up to the last minute. It’s just kind of when they decide the last minute is going to be. If you look at the big picture here, Republicans have their largest majorities in the capitol in decades. And so for them to be two and a half months past deadline, that in and of itself is unusual. The way they’re wrapping up is a bit unusual. You don’t usually hear veto assurances discussed that morning in kind of a public way. And then the details of those veto assurances not come out until later that night. So there are a lot of elements of this that are not your typical budget. But the fact that they’re going up to the last minute as they kind of set that clock, that’s pretty typical.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, take us through what the budget does and doesn’t do.

Shawn Johnson:

So, I mean, big picture, it’s a $76 billion state budget when you take state money and federal money. The governor’s big highlight he talks about at nearly every stop when he talks about this budget is the increased school funding. The $639 million worth of increased funding for K-12 public schools. It would phase out a property tax. Reduce property taxes on businesses and so those are kind of the high points for Republicans. For Democrats there’s been a lot of talk about that education increase being too little too late. They’ve really kind of sought to contrast what’s in this budget and what could have been in the budget with what Republicans approved earlier this week, which was a $3 billion incentive package for Foxconn that came before the budget vote.

Frederica Freyberg:

I thought it was curious that the Assembly Speaker said he would not vote again on this budget to appease senate Republicans, but if there are changes he wouldn’t have a choice, would he?

Shawn Johnson:

You would have had a pretty big game of chicken at that point because you had the Assembly basically saying, “We’re not going to do–we’re not going to take up what you’re voting on.” You would have had the Senate saying, “So what. You’re going to have to. We passed it.” They would have been at a standstill at that point. So they’ve avoided that this time. You’re not going to get to see that game of chicken. It looks like we’re going to have budget tonight.

Frederica Freyberg:

Shawn Johnson, thanks very much for joining us and don’t stay too late.

Shawn Johnson:

You're welcome.

Frederica Freyberg:

We head to Washington now, where Congress hopes to get some traction on legislature, including what to do on the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals Program. We caught up with Republican U.S. Representative Mike Gallagher late in the week. First I want to say thanks very much for joining us.

Mike Gallagher:

Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Frederica Freyberg:

So either President Trump made an agreement with Democrats over DACA to protect dreamers from deportation or he didn’t. But what is your position on what should happen with DACA, which the president rescinded last week?

Mike Gallagher:

Well, to your point, I think there’s been conflicting stories about whether there’s an agreement, whether there isn’t an agreement. Speaker Ryan, as I was talking in here, was on TV suggesting there isn’t yet an agreement. I think the president was right to give Congress six months in order to step up and take action. And Congress needs to do its job. And I think if we are simultaneously willing to have a discussion about border security, then we can begin a debate. But we have to secure the border first and foremost. It’s not secure. I even worked at the drug enforcement agency for a year doing counter narcotics work. I can tell you that firsthand. So if we’re going to be having the DACA discussion, we need to have the border security discussion at the same time.

Frederica Freyberg:

Do you favor a fix that might include a pathway to citizenship for the 7600 recipients of DACA in Wisconsin?

Mike Gallagher:

I'm certainly sympathetic to the dreamers who came here through no fault of their own. There’s something out there now called the Enlist Act that would allow for citizenship for those who stepped up and served in our military. I think there’s proposals like that that should be considered. But again if we don’t secure the border first and foremost and then do a Band-Aid fix by creating a pathway to citizenship for the dreamers, then we’ll actually have made the problem worse ’cause you’ve incentivized the people to break the law. That’s really the problem with the system overall. We have a fundamentally broken immigration system that punishes people trying to do it the right way. And helps people that are trying to break our laws. So we have to have respect for the rule of law in this country. I understand we’re a nation of immigrants. But we have to find a way to restore some semblance of respect for the rule of law and fix the immigration system more broadly. Because there may be times when we want to have more people come into this country. And right now the immigration system makes us economically uncompetitive and makes it a farce out of the law.

Frederica Freyberg:

Let me just jump in on this before we move onto another matter. Would you want to protect dreamers from deportation?

Mike Gallagher:

Well, I think I support the president’s desire to find some fix. There’s about four proposals that are out there right now that I'm reviewing. My hope is that if the other side is willing to come to the table on border security, then we can have a conversation. And I'm certain that everyone wants to see this problem resolved in a humane and just way.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. On this other matter. It’s a little confusing and had to do with the president siding with Democratic leaders for a short-term debt limit extension, tying it to Hurricane Harvey relief. And you voted no on this measure. Why?

Mike Gallagher:

I voted yes for help for the victims of Hurricane Harvey when it came up earlier in the week, when it was a stand-alone bill. It should be a stand-alone bill. And then what the Senate did is attach it to a continuing resolution and a debt ceiling increase. So a debt ceiling increase absent meaningful reform when it comes to up driving up our debt strikes me as entirely irresponsible. We need to fix that broken process. Continuing resolutions are the epitome of why Washington is broken. Since 2010 we spent about 1,000 days of operating under a continuing resolution. And as Secretary Mattis– Secretary of Defense Mattis confirmed in a letter to Senator McCain and Chairman Mac Thornberry this week, continuing resolutions are devastating for the U.S. military. It’s bad process. It’s bad policy. It doesn’t help us fund the programs we need to fund. It actually drives up costs. And it’s a perfect example of how and why Washington D.C. is broken. We have to find a way to restore regular order and govern as we should be governing.

Frederica Freyberg:

Let me ask what you think of the president of your party reaching across the aisle in these kinds of ways making deals with the Democrats?

Mike Gallagher:

I think you should always be having a conversation. I’m part a problem solvers caucus. I’m a conservative. I think you can be looking for principled compromise without compromising your principles. As a younger member of Congress, as one of three millennials in Congress, I think it’s apparent politics as usual isn’t working. I think there’s a lot of appetite for new ideas and new solutions. What struck me for far early in my first term is how hard it is to even carve out a space to have a civil conversation about some of the more difficult issues, like health care or tax reform, let alone the drivers of our debt. So I think carving out a space where people from different ideological perspectives can come together and have an honest debate is always a good thing. You might just learn something from that process.

Frederica Freyberg:

You have expressed yourself against the president on other occasions. Naming in the wake of his suggesting quote many sides were to blame in the Charlottesville white supremacists violence. The president needs to be crystal clear that hatred has no place in our society but he is currently failing at it. He’s now poised to sign a Congressional resolution condemning the Charlottesville violence and white supremacy. Do you think that will pull him into a passing grade on this issue in your mind?

Mike Gallagher:

Well I think it’s a step in the right direction. Obviously I wish the White House would have been clearer in condemning the neo-Nazis that we saw and the racism, bigotry and intolerance. But this is a step in the right direction. I think everyone in public office has a duty to make it crystal clear that such hatred is not only unacceptable, it’s anti-American. It’s antithesis to our founding creed as a nation. I’m happy that he’s going to sign this resolution. I know a lot of people of my party were upset or are upset if I ever disagree with the president but I don’t work for the president. I don’t work for any party leader or even a political party. I represent 730,000 people in northeast Wisconsin. I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution. That’s where my loyalty lies. I’m just going to be honest about how I feel about each issue as it comes up.

Frederica Freyberg:

I know the tax plan involving cutting the corporate rates, simplifying tax brackets and eliminating the estate tax and the alternative minimum tax is in the work. President Trump insists these would not be tax cuts for the rich, but what if the tax cuts add to the deficit?

Mike Gallagher:

Well there’s an argument that with tax cuts you could see an uptick in economic growth. And certainly it’s my belief that if you allow people to keep more of what they earn, they will be able to make better decisions about how to spend that money rather than having bureaucrats in Washington D.C. make decisions about how to spend that money. I think everyone understands the importance of getting tax reform done. I think done the right way. If we keep it simple and transparent and eliminate all these loopholes and deductions that allow special interests and lobbyists to profit at the expense of average hard working Wisconsin families. I think we will see an uptick in economic activity. I think we’ll see a dramatic uptick in growth. That will increase the revenue that the government is able to collect. So I'm hopeful that we will move forward on tax reform. I talked to — it’s not just big companies. It’s every small business in northeast Wisconsin that’s struggling to survive every single day. We need to think about them when we think about simplifying the tax code. And think about families. They want to keep more of what they earn and make those decisions in a prudential way.

Frederica Freyberg:

I need to leave it there. Representative Mike Gallagher, thanks very much for joining us.

Mike Gallagher:

Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Frederica Freyberg:

We spoke with Congressman Gallagher earlier. On the other side of the aisle, U.S. Representative Gwen Moore of Milwaukee with her take on the issues. Thanks very much for being here.

Gwen Moore:

Always great to be with you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Earlier this month as you know, President Trump rescinded the DACA program. Now it looks like he may be working with Democrats to protect dreamers from deportation in return for what he calls tough border security. What is your reaction, though, to the president and his words and deeds on DACA?

Gwen Moore:

Well, Frederica I can tell you that DACA really makes sense. It makes sense from a humanitarian and moral standpoint. But it also makes sense from an economic perspective. We’ve invested in these kids. 800,000 of them. Most of them have been educated through our public school system. They’ve gone on to college. They’ve served in the military. So apparently someone has gotten through to him through this little window to say that he’ll at least support this legislatively. It remains to be seen whether or not the Republican leadership, Paul Ryan and McConnell, actually put this legislation on the floor. If they put it on the floor of the house, I can guarantee you it would pass.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now the Dems apparently thought he agreed on a path to citizenship. He know says that’s not the case. I'm a little unclear what his position is at this moment. But what is your position on that pathway to citizenship?

Gwen Moore:

I think a pathway to citizenship is absolutely necessary. You know, there would be absolutely no point in breaking up families. Again, I think the security of the United States and the economic security of the United States is really at stake. And so hopefully this quote unquote deal will hold. When you’re dealing with Donald Trump, you just–it’s really like trying to grab hold of a bowl of jello.

Frederica Freyberg:

Earlier this summer you called for the impeachment of Donald Trump over his response to the white supremacist violence in Charlottesville. But now he has signed this Congressional resolution denouncing white supremacy. Are you still calling for his impeachment?

Gwen Moore:

You know, by any means necessary he needs to go. I think that he is mentally unstable. I do think, I agree with Dr. Alvin Poussaint the renowned Harvard University scholar and psychiatrist that says racism is a mental illness. And the extent to which Donald Trump has doubled down, tripled down, quadrupled down as recently as yesterday to support these white supremacists means that it is really part of a — an indelible part of his character. And I don’t think he’s fit. One reason to represent all people in the United States. I think that he is, you know, you know, Charlottesville is just one issue. And when you look at the situation in North Korea and his saber-rattling there, his support of Vladimir Putin, who is trying to destroy all of our democratic institutions, interfere in our elections, discredit the mainstream media, I think he is a dangerous person. And so I support impeachment. I support censorship and I certainly support removing him through the 25th amendment of the constitution. I don’t think that we can bear four years of Donald Trump.

Frederica Freyberg:

Congressional Republicans are now working on a tax cut package. The president says it is not a tax cut for the rich. What do you make of their tax changes and whether simplifying the code, for example, would help your constituents?

Gwen Moore:

Well, let me tell you. We are long due for tax reform. I think everybody would agree we need to do that. But it all depends on what your definition of tax reform is. And tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans is certainly not tax reform. We’ve spent 30 years having every corporate interest march up to Washington D.C. and get their special interests sewn into our tax code, so we now have a very asymmetric tax code with various incentives. And it really is not helping the middle class or the poor at all. Certainly this is Paul Ryan's tax reform plan. And I've been on the budget committee with Paul Ryan when he was the budget committee chair. So I know very, very well that his idea of tax reform, you know, involves taxes, corporate taxes, providing tax breaks to the wealthy. Right now one of the reasons the Republicans were so serious about so-called health care reform is because they wanted to take almost a trillion dollars out of health care so they could use it for tax cuts. So if that’s the kind of tax reform, I call tax deform, Frederica, that they want to do, I'm not onboard with that. But certainly — go on, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

Here at home the Foxconn incentive package is on its way to the governor, having passed the legislature. Have you in favor of that Foxconn deal?

Gwen Moore:

Well, Frederica, I'm going to have to admit that I didn’t take a deep dive into all of the details. But from what I can gather, it has some very perverse items. It seems like we want to socialize the cost and privatize the profits, if you ask me. There’s no guarantee that all these jobs are going to be created. But it’s going to cost a lot — taxpayers are going to have to pay a great deal for this quote unquote deal. Foxconn doesn’t have a great reputation in terms of other things that they’ve done, and so this is very, very frightening.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about the — with just about 30 seconds left, what about the appeal of certain number of jobs, up to 13,000, according to state officials?

Gwen Moore:

Sure wish he had done this with Talgo. We needed those jobs in Milwaukee. It was a much better deal than Foxconn is. I think this is all political to drive Donald Trump’s agenda. Again I think it’s a corporatist package. I hope to be wrong, but I don’t think it’s going to provide the yield that we expect.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We need to leave it there. U.S. Representative Gwendolynne Moore out of Washington. Thanks for joining us.

Gwen Moore:

Thank you. Be well, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

Thank you. Now back to state politics and the next in our series of interviews with candidates running for governor. Tonight, the former executive director of the Wisconsin Democracy Campaign and founder of Blue Jean Nation, Democratic Mike McCabe, who announced his candidacy on Tuesday. Thanks very much for being here.

Mike McCabe:

My pleasure.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what sets you apart from the other Democrats running in this crowded field?

Mike McCabe:

Well, there’s going to be a lot of candidates. It’s going to be a crowded field indeed. They’re all very accomplished people. They come from different backgrounds. They’ve got different experience. But they all have at least one thing in common. They seem very, very comfortable operating within the political system as it currently functions. And I’m not. They all seem at peace with the political culture as it is. And I'm not comfortable with the culture. I think it’s been poisoned. And I think the system is working really, really well for a very wealthy and well-connected, privileged few, but it’s leaving an awful lot of people behind. It’s failing a lot of us.

Frederica Freyberg:

So it’s been poisoned by?

Mike McCabe:

By the influence of huge donations that go to elected officials, who then return the favor with actions that benefit those big donors. And it’s done at everyone else’s expense. It’s a government that works for a few and leaves everybody else behind.

Frederica Freyberg:

Meanwhile, as you launch this campaign in this way with this message, I saw this week that Republicans are criticizing you for being a hypocrite for taking money from George Soros. What about that?

Mike McCabe:

There is so much that’s misleading and untruthful about all of that we’d probably need two shows to straighten it all out. It’s a sign they must be spooked by my candidacy. But when I ran the Wisconsin Democracy Campaign, we got a grant from the Open Society Institute, which is a charitable foundation that is prohibited by federal law from doing anything to influence elections. They now try to equate that foundation with these dark money groups that try to influence elections and conceal who’s doing the funding. So, you know, I think it’s because they’ve drenched themselves in so much dark money, tens of millions of dollars, to try to buy elections and now they want to muddy the waters and equate what a nonprofit group gets from a charitable foundation with that operation.

Frederica Freyberg:

Let’s move along to the issues. What do you think is the single-most important thing that Wisconsin needs to do to make its education system more robust, better going forward?

Mike McCabe:

I think first of all we’ve got to make sure that we have affordable and debt-free education for everybody in the state. You know, when people go to get the education they need to have a path to the American dream. They can’t be buried under a mountain of debt the way they are now. And right from the beginning we have to do a better job of adequately funding our schools and dealing with the morale problems within those schools. But then all the way up through the tech school and university level, we’ve got to make sure that it’s affordable for everybody. And it’s not right now. There are an awful lot of people who can’t afford that path to the American dream.

Frederica Freyberg:

If the Affordable Care Act remains in place, would you be in favor of taking expanded Medicaid for Wisconsin?

Mike McCabe:

Absolutely. We have the BadgerCare program here in Wisconsin. I actually favor expanding that to the point where it’s there for all Badgers. We should make BadgerCare something that is available to everyone in the state. Make it a public option that anybody could buy into if they want it or need it. It should be a public option on the insurance exchange.

Frederica Freyberg:

What's the best way in your mind to grow good-paying jobs in Wisconsin?

Mike McCabe:

Invest in small businesses and empower five million people in the state instead of showering tax breaks and state subsidies on a few thousand or even one or two huge global conglomerates and hope that they somehow will work magic for the rest of us. And some of that will trickle down to the rest of the population.

Frederica Freyberg:

Speaking of that, what is your position on the Foxconn incentive deal and Foxconn itself?

Mike McCabe:

Corporate welfare is just not the way to build a sturdy economy. It’s been a failed strategy for a long time. And it’s because the whole approach, this top-down approach, giving lavish benefits to a few in hopes that some will trickle down to the rest of us is the wrong way to go. We need to do an about-face and build an economy from the bottom up. Empower five million people. Living wages for everyone. Health care for all. Internet to every single household. Debt-free education so that you give people the means to do more for themselves and for each other.

Frederica Freyberg:

What would be your idea for a funding source, sustainable funding source going forward for Wisconsin’s roads and highways, which we seem to have so much trouble with?

Mike McCabe:

The two options we’re using right now is both neglect of our roads to the point where they’re some of the worst in the country and then borrowing so heavily. 20 cents out of every dollar doesn’t even go to roads. It goes to debt payments. We’ve got to be willing to be reasonable and maybe put a couple pennies on the gas tax. Pay for it now rather than put it on a credit card and make future generations pay for it.

Frederica Freyberg:

We need to leave it there. Mike McCabe, thanks very much.

Mike McCabe:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

We now turn to a Wisconsin connection to Florida and that state’s hurricane recovery. The record-breaking deployment of Wisconsin National Guard troops sent to aid victims of Hurricane Irma has been reduced, due to less storm damage than anticipated. 650 guard members are now deployed in Florida. And that is our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here and Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.