Frederica Freyberg:

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here and Now,” a federal review critical of the Milwaukee Police Department. A closer look at the developing state budget plan. DNR Secretary Cathy Stepp steps up to a post with the EPA. And Tony Evers, state school chief and Democrat running for governor, is here. It’s “Here and Now” for September 1.

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Funding for “Here and Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.

Frederica Freyberg:

A first look tonight at policing in the city of Milwaukee. This week, a long-awaited draft report from the U.S. Department of Justice went public when the Journal Sentinel published it. The report is a result of an extensive review of the police department called a Collaborative Reform Initiative. The Milwaukee police chief requested the review in 2015, following an officer-involved fatal shooting which caused public outcry and protests.

Frederica Freyberg:

The feds look included several areas. As for diversity in the ranks, the report says, quote, overall, MPD is not a diverse law enforcement organization and the demographics of the department are not representative of the community it serves. On community policing, focus groups and interviews with MPD personnel it says revealed an inconsistent understanding of community policing and often a lack of knowledge as to who is responsible for promoting community policing. On use of force, the report says overall African-Americans are disproportionally impacted by MPD use of force. While comprising approximately 39% of the Milwaukee population, they comprise 75% of all use of force subjects. And on citizen stops and searches, the report states we heard from most MPD members that the department’s primary law enforcement strategy is to stop as many vehicles as possible in high-crime areas as identified by data. The report says the police chief’s focus on crime data distracts from what it calls the primary tenet of modern policing: trust between police and citizens. The draft report makes several recommendations for change. But a final report may never be produced because the Trump administration says police reform is not a priority. For his part, Milwaukee Police Chief Edward Flynn says this: quote, the initial report was riddled with erroneous assertions, he says, and inaccurate data. MPD worked in true collaboration with DOJ consultants to rectify these errors. It is my goal to move forward with the recommendations for reform rather than to be mired in the need to refute errors I have been assured have been corrected.

Frederica Freyberg:

Police Flynn declined an interview on this. We are joined by Democratic State Representative David Bowen of Milwaukee for his reaction to the report. Thanks for being here.

David Bowen:

Thank you for having me on.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is your reaction to this draft report?

David Bowen:

Well, my reaction is that it’s very clear in this report with the 100+ recommendations that clearly our speaking to the folks that have been calling out for change, calling out for a different type of practice and different type of treatment from their own police department, that those claims had been real. That they are not made up. That there are very important things that affect them and how they’re treated by the police department. And you go line by line on those recommendations and it’s very clear that the 21st century report on policing, where the Obama administration brought a number of stakeholders together to provide best practices, that those recommendations that they have are not being followed by the Milwaukee Police Department. And it is very important that for the trust to be built in our community when it comes to these situations that can be prevented, that they actually follow these recommendations.

Frederica Freyberg:

As we heard, Chief Flynn contests many of the findings. He said it was riddled with erroneous accusations. And yet he requested it. So how much of a show of cooperation toward reform was it for Chief Flynn to actually go out and request this review?

David Bowen:

I think for me I want to know from the chief what exactly has been wrong or erroneous in this report. Because in my experience as a young African-American man, having residents in my district that interact with police departments on a regular basis, those who have been treated unfairly from their own police department that should be there to protect and serve them, you ask those individuals, we all agree that this report is speaking truth to the experience that we have. Our police chief needs to — I would say align with this report and take these recommendations very seriously, because that is how you implement best practices. That is how you can change the trajectory of so many situations of use of force being implemented throughout our community and disproportionately affecting black residents.

Frederica Freyberg:

So you’ve read this report and you know about police reform initiatives kind of nationwide. What about your constituents? What about the people in Milwaukee? What is their reaction?

David Bowen:

I think their reaction is finally something is coming out. This truly is from a third party that had no interest in trying to push negative things on our police department. They wanted the truth to be shown so that they could direct our police department on how to best address the issues that are plaguing it right now. The culture that is continuing to allow these irregular things from happening to our residents. I think when you ask folks on a grassroots level, are you stopped on a regular basis, disproportionately on your side of town. Clearly those things are shown and our police department is not focused on actually using practices that prevent crime. When you just randomly stop African-American members of our community, even the ones that are doing well and aren’t committing crime, you’re not respecting the fact that at a three times as much collection of contraband is collected from white individuals who are searched compared to black residents who do not have nearly the amount of drug possession on them or things that are found when they are stopped. And they are being stopped even way more, five times more. So that is a problem.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, if a final report is never produced and Chief Flynn says that he has been requesting that final report, do you think the review was still valuable even if there’s not something kind of finalized with these finalized recommendations?

David Bowen:

This report is very valuable. And it’s very unfortunate that the Trump administration does not see the value in making sure the 17,985 police departments we have across this country are following the best practices so that they can truly provide the best service possible to all members of their community. It is important that what is shared in this report on the things that our police department needs to do, that they are taken very seriously and that they are implemented. And you’re talking about recommendations about being transparent with the community. Recommendations about working with the community directly and taking their insight into how you even hire officers. Making sure that your department is diversified with at least the same amount of percentage that members of the community make up the population. Very important things to recognize. And on top of that, when it comes to use of force and how those investigations are done, how that information is collected, it does not allow discretion to happen where each department can do it differently. They’re saying there needs to be a set, defined standard that does that the best way. And unfortunately there’s way too much discretion in how these things are done.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is your expectation as to whether or not the Milwaukee Police Department will implement these recommendations?

David Bowen:

I think they have to. And I think it would be — it will continue to be tragic if they don’t. My parents live in the Sherman Park neighborhood. I was on the ground in the neighborhood last summer when the unrest began because of the killing of Sylville Smith. We’re talking about lives that are on the line. Neighborhoods that want to have great police service. And residents that deserve to be treated with the same amount of respect that white residents are given. This is the chance for our police department to step up. And to say we will be better for you. We recognize where we have fallen short. And we want to make sure that we are listening to your true concerns. And if they don’t do that, I think it would be very clear of why the lack of progress has continued and the lack of trust has continued in this situation. This is their time to step up.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We leave it there. Representative David Bowen, thanks very much.

David Bowen:

Thank you so much.

Frederica Freyberg:

A closer look tonight at the spending plan the legislature’s Joint Finance Committee passed on party lines this week for K12 schools. The budget plan increases school funding by $639 million over two years, giving schools an additional $200 per student this school year and another $204 next year. The plan also allows low-spending districts to boost their per pupil spending to $9,300, going to $9,800 in five years. The package also expands the statewide school choice program, allowing a higher income to be eligible. This means an additional 550 students could participate. We begin our next interview on the topic of the state education budget and then we will branch out to other political themes because our next guest is the current superintendent of public instruction, Democrat Tony Evers, who has also announced his candidacy for governor. Evers has been the state school chief since 2009. He’s a former school principal as well as a former district superintendent. Tony Evers joins us now and thanks very much for doing.

Tony Evers:

Thanks for the invite. Appreciate it.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what is your reaction and response as state school superintendent to the K12 plan as passed by the Joint Finance Committee?

Tony Evers:

Well, first of all, I wish they would get done. The timing of it is becoming problematic, especially for many of our small, sparsely populated districts, where they usually get their first check on that in September and it just won’t happen. So that will be a problem. But the budget itself, there’s winners and losers. Clearly I'm pleased that the governor took my position around increasing some funding. But there’s some also problematic things. The choice expansion was a little bit unexpected because the governor didn’t put anything as far as expanding choice in the budget. And furthermore, it expanded it by making it more — less for poor kids and more for all kids. And that will cost districts money. I mean, especially those kids that normally already go to a private school. They’ll now be eligible for a voucher. And that’s going to cost money. And local taxpayers will end up paying for that.

Frederica Freyberg:

There's been a lot of talk over the years really about rural school districts and their needs. How does this budget out of the Joint Finance Committee treat rural districts?

Tony Evers:

Well, in some respects pretty well. We have mental health initiatives that were part of my budget and also the governor’s budget. But also sparsity aid had gotten quite a bit of increase, but at the end of the day that was scaled back and that was a problem. I think schools were expecting more. But the fact that it’s being done and ended and solved so late in the day is going to prevent that first payment from going out. I know some small school districts have delayed actually hiring teachers because of that. So that’s a major issue for us.

Frederica Freyberg:

On to your run for governor.

Tony Evers:

Yes.

Frederica Freyberg:

What sets you apart from the many other candidates throwing their hat in the ring?

Tony Evers:

Well, I think several things. One is I've won three statewide races. And the last time I won with 70% of the vote. I won 70 of 72 counties. And so I've had good support. Support by Democrats, independents and Republicans for that race. I think that sets me apart. Another is the fact that I have spent my life living a lot of it across the central part of the state. And so I love living in Madison, but also my family has lived in Tomah and Oakfield and Omro and Oshkosh. I was born and raised in Plymouth. So those things I think are an advantage. And the third thing, it’s probably not all that I'd say sexy as it relates to politics, but I've actually run things. I’ve been in charge of a school, been in charge of a school district. I’m now in charge of a state agency that oversees 60,000 teachers and 860,000 kids. Those I think executive skills are really important, especially in this day and age.

Frederica Freyberg:

On the issues, in your mind what is the single most important thing Wisconsin needs to be to do for its education system?

Tony Evers:

We have to be consistent in providing resources for not only our K-12 kids, but also young people in the technical college system and the University of Wisconsin system. It’s been very inconsistent. And frankly I think it’s been underfunded. You know, if you think about work force development and making our economy stronger, making our democracy stronger, most economists would agree that the ability for us to invest regularly in our people will help economic development and also help our middle class. So that’s where I'm starting my race and I think that’s really important.

Frederica Freyberg:

So would that be the recipe then for growing good-paying jobs in Wisconsin?

Tony Evers:

Most people believe that. Most economists believe that. Clearly the present administration feels differently. They’re willing to invest in tax credits and so on. And to be honest with you, we also have to do is look back in 2016, where the full tax credit for manufacturers was taking place. It was fully implemented. That year manufacturing jobs went down, as did manufacturing pay.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is your position on the incentive package, the deal for Foxconn?

Tony Evers:

Yeah. I believe it’s a Hail Mary pass to some extent around the election, but it’s a $3 billion package. I mean, that’s a lot of money. Most economists around the country are saying, holy mackerel, that far exceeds anything else. So the problem is we know what’s going in. We don’t know what’s coming out as far as wins for our state. It doesn’t prioritize Wisconsin workers. It doesn’t prioritize Wisconsin contractors. But going forward if we’re writing checks to Foxconn in the neighborhood of $200 million annually, there’s going to be less for health, for roads, for education and other areas.

Frederica Freyberg:

So you’re opposed to it.

Tony Evers:

Yes. I’m opposed to it. First of all, it’s likely to pass. I’m not foolish to believe that it’s not. But if there are things that can be renegotiated, I will renegotiate those.

Frederica Freyberg:

The Affordable Care Act law is still in effect, as we all know. That being the case, would you accept expanded Medicaid or call for it?

Tony Evers:

Absolutely. We should have several years ago. Anytime, anytime I have an opportunity as governor to make sure that we expand the opportunities for people to get good health care, I will do it. And even, people forget about — they talk about the downhill impact of Foxconn. Any money brought into the state, whether it’s that money or federal money, has a spin-off. And so those — that money from the federal government, we have lost and I would absolutely accept it going forward.

Frederica Freyberg:

How would you bolster funding for roads?

Tony Evers:

Well, I would be open to anything. And I think I would say that would be the first thing I'd try to work on, because I think it is a bipartisan issue. I’ve heard Robin Vos talking about a gas tax. I’ve heard other people talk about bonding. I think bonding is something that would be the least likely in my administration because we’re already bonding a lot. Sooner or later at the point in time — I have a three-year-old grandkid and he’s going to be paying for the road construction when he’s in his 20s from today. We have to start making it sustainable. I think the people of Wisconsin understand that. So I think bringing people together, I think we can reach a conclusion around that.

Frederica Freyberg:

Would you be in support of an increase in the gas tax?

Tony Evers:

If people — yes. That would be a sustainable thing. And also indexing it. The way it was when we actually had — when it actually worked is a possibility. But anything is on the table. I would entertain all comers on this issue.

Frederica Freyberg:

With a half a minute left so this isn’t that fair, why do you think you could unseat Scott Walker?

Tony Evers:

First of all, I have good support across the state of Wisconsin. Second of all, his track record is really pretty shaky as relates to economic development, jobs. He hasn’t met that criteria. His ability to make tax cuts work in this state and with trickledown economics, that hasn’t worked. And frankly, his connection with our good president on a number of issues I think makes it a very doable thing. I plan to win. I am going to beat Scott Walker a year from this November.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Tony Evers, thanks very much for joining us.

Tony Evers:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now a look ahead to what’s in store for the State Department of Natural Resources as current Secretary Cathy Stepp leaves to take a regional director position for the EPA. For that we turn to former DNR Secretary and now executive director at the Wisconsin Wildlife Federation George Meyer. Thanks for being here.

George Meyer:

Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

First it occurs to me I should ask you whether or not you were surprised Cathy Stepp was moving up to the EPA?

George Meyer:

Well, I wasn’t surprised she was leaving the agency. There’s been a rumor to that effect for some time. The fact that she’s moving up to that position, we hadn’t heard about that. So it was something we had not anticipated.

Frederica Freyberg:

As for her legacy, you are quoted as saying this. I can very easily say that Secretary Stepp had the worst record of the seven DNR secretaries I have known in terms of protection of the environment. How so?

George Meyer:

Well, I'm not one to — that is prone to hyperbole, but her record in terms of the other seven secretaries that I’ve known or worked for, she was not proactive on any significant environmental issues. And there were issues that would have been easy for any other secretary to jump — and would have jumped up and tackled. We have the groundwater situation in Kewaunee County, where you know, half the wells in some townships are so polluted they can’t be used. And it took local citizens and some of the state environmental groups to petition EPA to come in and get DNR ordered to fix that situation. The slowness in working with the chronic wasting disease situation in the deer herds. Those are just some of the things that other secretaries would have been far more proactive on.

Frederica Freyberg:

Were there some changes within the agency that you regard as positive?

George Meyer:

Well, there’s one situation recently where I think she did step up. You know, Representative Adam Jarkle from northwest Wisconsin was going to split the agency into five agencies. And she came out and opposed that. We supported her on that. She did have cutbacks in positions. Unfortunately she advocated for some of those. She came up with a realignment that, by and large, is going to help the situation. So there were some of those things. But on environmental policy and implementation, not so much.

Frederica Freyberg:

As for the easing of regulations for the Foxconn development, what’s your position on that?

George Meyer:

Well, our wildlife federation hasn’t taken a position. Our plate is so full. We’re always concerned when in fact you have regulations eased even for a project that can provide a great deal of economic development. As an example, you know, I was secretary during 1990s. We had a very reasonable and strong environmental programs in the state and the economy grew under Governor Thompson. So you can have both. What I worry about Foxconn is much more than just what’s going to happen on site. You already see organizations such as Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce and some state representatives say if it’s good enough for Foxconn, let’s do it statewide. I worry about the precedent of that decision.

Frederica Freyberg:

How lasting do you suppose that Cathy Stepp’s kind of open for business legacy will be on Wisconsin?

George Meyer:

Well, you know, she was responding to the call from several legislators and obviously the governor on this. And I think it’s going to be up to those entities, the governor and legislature, to understand that the long-term impacts of weakening environmental protection is not good for the environment of the state, not good for the citizens, but most importantly not for the economy of the state.

Frederica Freyberg:

What will you be looking for from the new secretary of the DNR?

George Meyer:

Well, we surely want somebody that has a background in conservation or environmental management. Doesn’t have to be somebody from the agency. But someone that understands the science and practicalities of environmental management. We’d also like somebody that’s proactive and understands and is not afraid to raise their concerns publicly that in fact there’s a problem that needs addressing. We understand that the secretary doesn’t make all decisions. The governor does. Legislature sets policy. But those people need to hear from a secretary that’s willing to say if you’re go in that direction, this is what’s going to happen and that’s not good for the environment, not good for the economy.

Frederica Freyberg:

Meanwhile next week there is to be a legislative public hearing on a bill that would repeal the mining moratorium. What do you think of that?

George Meyer:

Well, it changes several things in terms of non-iron mining, non-ferrous mining. The bill is substantially different than the bill that was adopted a few years ago regarding iron mining. It has some provisions that the Wildlife Federation is concerned about. But many of the provisions seem reasonable updating in the law. And our organization is going to be trying to work out some of the challenging parts of the bill. But basically it is not nearly as bad a bill as the iron mining bill was that passed the legislature.

Frederica Freyberg:

And in fact you’ve suggested that there are some prongs of this new bill that take from a substitute bill that you helped work on in the last round.

George Meyer:

That's right. During the iron mining bill, Senator Cullen, Senator Schultz asked some representatives of the mining industry, Tim Sullivan who was with Bucyrus and myself and some engineers from the mining company, and we came up with a compromise bill. Several of those portions of that bill are in this bill. And that’s encouraging.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. George Meyer, thanks very much.

George Meyer:

Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

Another prominent state official announced his departure this week. Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke resigned Thursday effective Thursday. He says he will reveal his future plans next week. We go now to an update away from the state capitol and down to Texas. As the nation comes together to help those with the continuing devastation of Hurricane Harvey, Wisconsinites are joining the effort. The Red Cross of Wisconsin currently has a contingent of more than 90 volunteers in Texas, a number expected to increase in coming days and weeks. They are providing support and emergency shelters and providing necessities such as food and medical care. Also aiding the effort are U.S. Coast Guard members from Wisconsin. More than 20 went with rescue equipment this week and stations along Lake Michigan are on standby to send more. Finally tonight, a look ahead to next week, when we continue our series of interviews with those who have announced their candidacy for governor. Andy Gronik is with us next Friday night. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

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Funding for “Here and Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.