Here & Now

Here & Now for Aug. 25, 2017

Shirley Steiner:

I think we need jobs, but I think we have to be very careful on how we get these jobs.

Frederica Freyberg:

People in southwest Wisconsin give us their take on Foxconn. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here and Now,” a first look at potential medical technology partnerships with Foxconn and the UW. After that, a closer look at public opinion on the Foxconn deal, away from the proposed site for it in southeast Wisconsin. Then a quick check in on state budget work at the capitol this week and political panelists Bill McCoshen and Scot Ross join us for a capitol insight segment. It’s “Here and Now” for August 25.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here and Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.

Frederica Freyberg:

A first look tonight at how the University of Wisconsin could benefit from Foxconn locating in the state. On Wednesday, flanked by UW-Madison Chancellor Rebecca Blank and officials from the UW School of Medicine, Governor Scott Walker touted the potential biomedical advances that could result from a joint research effort between the UW and Foxconn.

Scott Walker:

We think there’s incredible applications. We’re excited about that. We hope that as they build this new product here in the state of Wisconsin, that our health care systems and our schools and medicine can be at the forefront of using that technology and having access to that at the forefront really around the world.

Frederica Freyberg:

Governor Walker appearing at UW Hospital touting the promise of Foxconn technology in Wisconsin biotech industry. In tonight’s first look, we hear from Lisa Johnson, the CEO of BioForward, an organization that advocates for the state’s biomedical industry. She joins us by telephone and thanks a lot for doing so.

Lisa Johnson:

My pleasure, Frederica. Good to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:

First of all what's your reaction to Foxconn potentially locating a medical devise or research facility in Wisconsin, even in Dane County?

Lisa Johnson:

It's extremely positive and very exciting. This is really due to what’s happening in southeast Wisconsin with their big screen potentially manufacturing plant in southeast Wisconsin. But also we’ve been working with their medical division for a couple months and certainly they’re looking at Wisconsin on this front because of our outstanding research institutions, our strengths in the biosciences, medical technology. So it’s really exciting that there is this potential. But again, this is also very much due to what’s happening in southeast Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

Right. So we’re speaking with a radiologist in a moment, but broadly what applications would the company’s technology have in the medical field?

Lisa Johnson:

So there’s a couple fronts. On the screens themselves, they’re 8K technology, and again, I'm not a surgeon, but it provides such high-quality resolution that it provides surgeons with a much better view of the body while in surgery that would allow them more precision. I would assume then less errors, better outcomes and ultimately less health care costs. But that’s just their screen technology. There’s an investment in medical technology that goes beyond that. And they’re very much into precision medicine, from treatment to prevention. And that’s where you’re starting to see this medical division stepping in and looking at medical technologies here or our research institutions. So they really have a broad path in the medical technology area beyond their screens, which the radiologist will be addressing. We’re also seeing that in the college area too that they’re looking at.

Frederica Freyberg:

BioForward expects to have a representative from Foxconn I understand as its keynote speaker in October. What do you expect to hear from that representative?

Lisa Johnson:

Yeah. I really expect to hear trends in the health care industry. I mean, they’re cutting edge. And so I'm expecting them and that’s kind of a theme that we have. We also have Samsung coming in, their chief medical officer. And how virtual reality is being used in health care. What you see are these electronic giants. They’re really critical to medical technology, medical advances in the future. So we’re going to be hearing about that from Foxconn. But also looking — what’s really fascinating about Foxconn, they’re also saying what else is out there? They’re looking for innovation and what are the next steps to their company, to their medical technology division. So I think they will be addressing that. I’m going to be assuming so. So I think that’s really exciting for the whole community to be hearing where is that company going and how can Wisconsin be a part of that. We don’t get these opportunities. So Foxconn really — if we can get this company into Wisconsin, it could have a major impact on our medical community.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Well, that’s great news. Lisa Johnson, thanks very much for joining us.

Lisa Johnson:

Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

Just what are the specific applications for Foxconn's liquid-crystal display panel technology in the medical field? For that, we turn to Dr. Scott Reeder, UW Medical School Professor of Radiology, Biomedical Engineering and Medical Physics. Doctor, thanks very much for being here.

Scott Reeder:

Great to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what is it about the technology that Foxconn could bring to Wisconsin that is most promising in your mind?

Scott Reeder:

So Foxconn has unique display technology that would be helpful in medical imaging in a variety of ways. One of the things that we focus on historically is better ways to acquire data more rapidly. There’s new techniques. There’s more data. And to be able to display this all at the end so a physician such as a radiologist or surgeons can view this is really what’s needed. This is really I think where the opportunity lies.

Frederica Freyberg:

So even more specifically, how would that be used in patient care?

Scott Reeder:

Right. So it can be used in a number of ways. It could be used to facilitate improved visualization for endoscopy. An actual camera placed inside the body. Or being able to put multimodality information together, like CT, ultrasound and MRI and to display this in unique ways that we couldn’t before.

Frederica Freyberg:

Do people at the UW, at the medical school, in the hospital, the practitioners, do they feel like we would be so far ahead because Foxconn would be in our backyard?

Scott Reeder:

I think they would allow us to have some unique collaborations. And it certainly would allow us to work with this unique manufacturer of advanced imaging technology. We’ve been able to enjoy that kind of relationship with other manufacturers. And that really does provide cutting edge research — pardon me, cutting edge technology for our patients.

Frederica Freyberg:

How would any of that of which you speak compare to what you’re using now?

Scott Reeder:

Well, right now we’re using sort of standard display technologies. And so having a collaboration with Foxconn to explore how we can do this I think is really quite unknown to understand the full potential. But it is something that would allow us again to display that information in unique ways that we haven’t been able to before.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, you’re the chief of MRI and the Director of the UW Liver Imaging Research Program that performs research in technical development and translation of new imaging methods. So how would Foxconn's technology, especially being here as we’ve discussed, help in that research and development?

Scott Reeder:

What we’re doing in the liver imaging research program is that we’re developing new imaging technologies mostly focused on the acquisition and the reconstruction that is generating the images in unique ways to look at things like liver disease and other diseases, especially quantitative imaging as well. So we do this in close collaboration with partners such as GE Healthcare to explore new techniques and new ways of doing this. So I think that developing a relationship with Foxconn would make a lot of sense in terms of understanding how we can use their unique technologies to improve medical imaging.

Frederica Freyberg:

And do you feel as though there would be kind of partnerships with places like GE?

Scott Reeder:

Absolutely. So partnerships with not only the university but also partnerships with GE. There’s really a nexus of medical imaging industry within southern Wisconsin, largely centered around GE. A number of spin-off companies that have come out of universities. So there’s a wide variety of partnerships that could happen between industry, between academics and industry as well as multicenter studies. There’s really a critical mass of talent in this area. I think Foxconn really could be a big player and really add to that in a significant way.

Frederica Freyberg:

And this is well-known across the world presumably that Wisconsin is the hub of this kind of activity?

Scott Reeder:

You know, I'm not sure that it is. Among the medical imaging community it certainly is. GE is one of the largest manufacturers of medical imaging technologies in the world. And their world headquarters is here in Waukesha Wisconsin. They have a long standing relationship with Medical College of Wisconsin and University of Wisconsin. And there are a large number of spinoff companies that have also come out of that as well. So I think it’s something that actually is not well-appreciated but is really a unique and interesting strength of Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

So how excited are you for the prospect of Foxconn?

Scott Reeder:

Oh, I think this is a great opportunity. The exact outcomes of this and how it will play out have yet to be determined. But when you have someone who has specific and unique technology that would be applicable to medical imaging, it can only be good.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Dr. Scott Reeder. Thanks very much.

Scott Reeder:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

Even with a secondary Foxconn site under consideration for Dane County, southeast Wisconsin is poised to welcome the giant flat screen plant, thousands of new jobs and that spin-off development. In tonight’s closer look, the governor and others say the whole state will prosper because of Foxconn locating its $10 billion plant in Racine or Kenosha. Even though the legislature’s Democrats mostly oppose the risk of the $3 billion state incentive package, three reps from that part of the state including the minority leader voted in favor. Without the proximity of the plant to sway opinion though, we wondered what people in southwest Wisconsin thought about whether Foxconn would be a good deal. We visited Richland Center to find out.

Karin Tepley:

I think it’s a great deal. I like the idea that someone like Foxconn is thinking of Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

Anything that puts Wisconsin on the business map is good news for Karin Tepley. Here former business couldn’t weather the past recession in this small city. It’s Richland Center, population just over 5,000. It’s the county seat and the people we met were well-informed with definite opinions about Foxconn.

Karin Tepley:

I like the fact that other people are thinking Wisconsin. We’re not just this little Midwestern state anymore it seems like.

Daniel Miller:

When somebody offers me something that seems too good to be true, it usually is. And $3 billion is — you know, that’s a dollar a second for 90 or 100 years.

Frederica Freyberg:

Daniel Miller runs the Main Street Book Shop.

Daniel Miller:

Now we’re supposed to come up with $3 billion for jobs we don’t know are going to be there. We don’t know if they’re going to be there.

Frederica Freyberg:

He's not alone in his concern about the state’s incentive package.

Ceil Simonson:

$3 billion is a huge amount that’s going to be taken away from the state that could go into our, you know, schools, could go into our roads. $3 billion is a huge amount.

Benjamin Southwick:

I'm opposed to it. I’m generally opposed to all aspects of corporate welfare.

Frederica Freyberg:

For attorney Benjamin Southwick, it’s that incentive package to lure the Taiwanese flat screen manufacturer that sours him on the deal.

Benjamin Southwick:

On one hand I certainly understand the desire of states and municipalities to have private sector jobs and to attract those jobs. But in my opinion it’s obscene the way states and municipalities compete with one another by offering more and more incentives for corporations to move there.

Shirley Steiner:

I'm concerned about it, partially because of the payback is so far in advance. And if you think about other technology, 25 years is a long time, like eight track tapes and all this sort of thing. I’m old enough to have lived through a lot of this technology. Is it still going to be good 25 years from now?

Frederica Freyberg:

Shirley Steiner says everyone she sees is talking about Foxconn and considering everything that’s in the legislation paving its way.

Shirley Steiner:

The other thing, I'm concerned about the environment. I don’t want all of the DNR requirements for the environmental things just sort of pushed aside to get this in there in a hurry.

Frederica Freyberg:

We ran into David Teiwes at Richland Center’s main crossroads. He says any statewide economic boost is all positive.

David Teiwes:

My personal opinion is that if it brings jobs to Wisconsin, I think it would be a great, great idea.

Frederica Freyberg:

But will that great idea realize growth in western counties or up north in places often left out of development in urban corridors?

Benjamin Southwick:

I'm sure they will have spin-offs for the southeastern part of the state. I can’t imagine any of those spin-offs reaching Richland County.

Frederica Freyberg:

And so as to the question of whether the benefits will reach places like Richland Center, the owner of a local coffee shop is only half joking when she wonders if Foxconn has any friends who would like to locate a similar major employer in her town.

Kelly Coppernoll:

You know, we have very friendly people, a great coffeehouse to go to. No, but, you know, there’s a lot of benefits, and it would be great to have a place like that move here.

Frederica Freyberg:

As the incentive package bill continues to make its way through the legislature, budget writers went back to work this week on the state spending plan. The Joint Finance Committee met this week for the first time since June. The big items of K12 spending and transportation funding are expected to be taken up in coming weeks. But Republican co-chairs assure they’ve mostly reached consensus.

John Nygren:

Things are work in progress, but there is a framework. There is an agreement in principle for the most part. There might be a few more moving parts.

Alberta Darling:

I think both sides try to find a solution. So you’ll see a little bit different.

Frederica Freyberg:

At Thursday's session the committee voted to eliminate the state portion of the property tax. It also approved the reorganization of the DNR, prompting committee member Democrat Gordon Hintz to voice concerns over the environmental impacts of Foxconn.

Frederica Freyberg:

In tonight’s capitol insight, budget progress, Foxconn fever and a statewide official throws his hat in the ring. Superintendent of schools Democrat Tony Evers made it official this week that he’s running for governor against Scott Walker. Conservative Bill McCoshen and liberal Scot Ross tonight hash through the latest. Thanks for being here.

Bill McCoshen, Scot Ross:

Thanks for having us.

Frederica Freyberg:

So how many Democrats are in the race now?

Bill McCoshen:

Three definitely in and 300 talking about it.

Frederica Freyberg:

Right. It sounds like it. Yeah. So you know, if Scott Walker lands Foxconn though, which seems likely, right. How isn’t his re-election a lock?

Scot Ross:

Well, how do you go around the state and say we’ve just given out the biggest subsidy to a foreign corporation in American history that’s down on the Illinois border. That’s not guaranteed to provide non-Illinois jobs. How do you go sell that around the state of Wisconsin? I don’t understand how you do that and say that it’s a lock. I mean listen Governor Walker back in 2009 opposed high-speed rail. He opposed the stimulus package. They both created tens of thousands of jobs. They would have created tens of thousands of jobs. And yet, he, in the midst of the recession, able to go around and do that. Foxconn doesn’t make anything a slam dunk.

Frederica Freyberg:

What do you think about that? Do you think it’s a lock for him if he lands this for sure?

Bill McCoshen:

Yeah, it helps for sure. Scot knows this very well but voters tend to vote their pocketbook first. The economy is doing pretty well here in Wisconsin. We expect it to be doing well 440 days from now when the election is held. That’s an advantage to the incumbent, in this case Scott Walker. Foxconn certainly helps. It is a big league deal. He calls it transformational but it is without a question the largest economic development deal in state history. There’s no question that’s an arrow in his quiver.

Frederica Freyberg:

What would it take for a Democrat to beat the unsinkable Governor Walker?

Scot Ross:

Well I’ll say this. Governor Walker, the fact that there are about a dozen Democrats talking about it is a good indication that he’s a weak candidate. I mean he’s not very good at his day job. He’s obviously a career politician who’s willing to say and do anything to get re-elected. He used us — tried to use us as a stepping-stone to become president of the United States. I agree with Bill, though. It’s all about economics. But what are the economics? This may be the first election in which post-baby boomers make up a majority of the electorate. So are Democrats going to continue to talk about what they’ve talked about the last 25 years, social security, Medicare, my employer-provided pension is under assault. Or are they going to talk about the economic issues facing the post-baby boomers, most assuredly the student loan debt crisis.

Bill McCoshen:

I think Democrats have sort of lost their way on economic issues. They don’t know how to talk about those anymore. They talk about far left issues that don’t really appeal to independents or centrist voters. Certainly don’t appeal to any Republican voters. That’s where Walker’s got a significant advantage heading in 2018. He’s got the economy on his side. There’s a massive investment in K12 education. There’s investment in the University of Wisconsin System in this budget. So sort of the areas where they might be able to come after him, he’s nullified those.

Frederica Freyberg:

As for a Democratic challenger, what type of candidate would be the strongest, in your mind?

Scot Ross:

Well, I mean, I think we’ve got — you got a couple out there who have the sort of strengths you need in order to get elected. Andy Gronik has created jobs. Dana Wachs stood up for consumers. Tony Evers has been a champion for public education. Those bread and butter issues for Democrats are obviously an important part of the mix. But again, I think you gotta come back and you gotta start looking at where is the electorate changing in the state of Wisconsin? How do you approach that? Saying that Scott Walker has helped public education after he made the biggest cuts to public education in our state history is not going to be a winning message for Scott Walker.

Bill McCoshen:

Of the three that are in it, Evers probably has the advantage because he’s run statewide three times. He’s raised money statewide three times. I mean that’s not a bad starting kit. But I would say they have to figure out how to talk about the economy. Even if they can figure that out, it’s going to be tough to get to the right of Scott Walker on economic issues here in the state.

Frederica Freyberg:

I would say. As for Foxconn, if clawbacks get added to this in the contract or even in the legislation, what’s left to fight about that?

Bill McCoshen:

Well, we already had bipartisan support. Three democrats voted with the Assembly majority when it went through the Assembly. I suspect that Bob Wertz from Kenosha is going to vote yes when it goes through the state Senate in mid-September. There will be bipartisan support in both houses. Clawbacks hopefully will be in the contract, not in legislation. As a former commerce secretary, it’s much easier to do in the contract than it is in statute. I think there are plenty of protections for Wisconsin taxpayers in this bill. And frankly it’s got strong bipartisan support.

Scot Ross:

Bill knows in politics if the answer is not yes, the answer is no. If it’s not guaranteed in the bill, that means it may not happen. I think beyond just the clawbacks part of it, the fact that this is going to be on the Illinois border with absolutely no guarantees that these won’t be Illinois workers who come and we subsidize their job. I think that’s a huge part of this deal. How are you going to go around that state and sell if you’re an Assemblyperson? My Assembly district’s commitment is $30 million for a place on the Illinois border that doesn’t guarantee Wisconsin jobs. How do you sell that?

Frederica Freyberg:

When he talked about it getting bipartisan support, you kind of shook your head.

Scot Ross:

Overwhelmingly there’s Democratic opposition because this bill represents the worst of economic politics, of crony capitalism that have been expressed by progressives in last 35 years. Literally handing out a $3 billion subsidy to a guy who referred to workers as animals. And actually brought in a zookeeper to train his upper management for his million employees. This ain’t a good guy and it ain’t a guy we should be giving $3 billion to.

Bill McCoshen:

Can’t deny there’s bipartisan support. To Scot’s earlier point, a UW-Madison study, the Center for Research on the economy came out this week and said there’s about 40,000 Wisconsinites that work in Illinois. Most of those will come back and keep jobs here in Wisconsin.

Scot Ross:

Gotta say on that one, that was authored by a guy who asked Scott Walker for a job for running for his president. That is the definition of junk science.

Frederica Freyberg:

What do you say because that is something that you’d been talking about on your social media feeds. Legit study?

Bill McCoshen:

I think it is legit. All of these deals take time to sort of play out. What I would caution the administration on doing is over-selling it. We don’t know if it’ll create 13,000 jobs. Maybe it’s 10. Maybe it’s 11. Maybe it’s 13. But then with the indirect jobs, this study says it could be anywhere from 33,000 to 39,000 jobs. That’s a mega deal.

Frederica Freyberg:

I guess we got to wait and see.

Scot Ross:

Yeah, wait til 2043 when we might break even with the best projections.

Frederica Freyberg:

We leave it there. Bill McCoshen, Scot Ross. Thank you.

Bill McCoshen, Scot Ross:

Thanks.

Frederica Freyberg:

Next up, in our Wisconsin look, we go to Pepin County for a look at a rural issue that’s very literally an issue of life and death in one small town. Reporter Andy Soth has more.

Andy Soth:

In a small town grocery store in western Wisconsin, a man collapses with a cardiac arrest.

911 Operator:

911. What’s the address of your emergency?

Andy Soth:

Peter Pillman who supplied the tape has both a professional and personal interest in the case. The man is his father.

Peter Pillman:

He had bystander CPR. Someone who came in right away, when he was found and started providing that.

911 Operator:

They're doing CPR right now on him.

Andy Soth:

For Pillman, the closed circuit camera caught everything going right.

Peter Pillman:

EMS were able to bring him alive to the hospital.

Ambulance Driver:

Transporting a 66-year-old male to the emergency department.

Andy Soth:

Pillman’s father made it and has recovered. But typically a cardiac arrest under these circumstances has less than a 2% survival rate. For all that the footage may say about the fragility of human life, Pillman shares it to talk about the fragility of the system that saved a life that day.

Peter Pillman:

These rural areas are totally dependent on volunteers.

Andy Soth:

Pillman is the ambulance director for Durand in western Wisconsin. A small community, like many others in the state, that’s having trouble filling volunteer positions in its emergency medical service.

Peter Pillman:

We have seen a decrease in the number of people that have time or are willing to put time into community involvement, specifically in the ambulance, probably because the commitment is quite extensive.

EMT Student:

Ok, wiggle.

Andy Soth:

To start, there’s required training, like the summer-long class at Western Technology College in La Crosse.

Peter Pillman:

We used to have janitors or others that could leave work to go on an ambulance call and had flexible hours. That’s no longer the case.

Andy Soth:

According to Pillman, downsizing and increased efficiency in business and government have made it harder for people to volunteer. And many in the Durand area commute to larger towns for work.

EMT Instructor:

Pull straight back.

Andy Soth:

Back at the EMT training class, it’s clear that public service is still a motivating force.

Deb Slaby:

In the rural areas it’s — you know, it’s helping your friends and neighbors. Doing whatever you can in those few precious minutes until you can get the patient to definitive care.

Kaylee Bath:

I just love helping people.

Mariah Gaier:

But in a small town you get a lot more of that like filling feeling when you see the people that you helped.

Andy Soth:

But these students, like many taking EMT classes today, are also motivated by their career choices. Meaning they may not work or volunteer as EMTs for long.

Kaylee Bath:

My end goal is to be a nurse.

Mariah Gaier:

My long-term goal is to be an EMT. And then maybe from there going on to medical school.

Andy Soth:

In Durand, the ambulance service is doing something that might have been unheard of just a few years ago, offering pay for what were once volunteer positions.

Peter Pillman:

I approached the city with a proposal, recognizing that this was coming.

Andy Soth:

It took not only Durand approving it, but getting surrounding areas also served by the ambulance to increase fees charged to each resident.

Peter Pillman:

That per capita rate had to be approved by all of the townships as well in the community.

Andy Soth:

But even with offering pay, positions have been hard to fill for many of the same reasons volunteer staffing has been a challenge. While it’s hard to change those societal factors, Pillman does have some ideas where legislation could help. One, making recertification easier. Another, loosening some restrictions on what qualified responders can do.

Peter Pillman:

So everything here is at EMT basic level. We have limits on what we can use.

Andy Soth:

Durand is certified as EMT Basic which means even if a volunteer has more advanced skills, they’re restricted from using them. Pending legislation could change that.

Peter Pillman:

There's a paramedic that lives in Durand wants to help out Durand ambulance. Even though we’re a basic level, they will be able to operate at that level when they’re working with Durand.

Andy Soth:

But ultimately for Pillman, it still comes down to a community working together.

Peter Pillman:

That is what made these areas so strong and so viable is that we did depend on each other. And we worked with each other to survive.

Frederica Freyberg:

That was Andy Soth reporting. And that’s all for tonight’s program. Next week, newly-announced Democratic candidate for governor Tony Evers joins us. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a great weekend.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here and Now” is provided, in part, by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.