Here & Now

Governor Outlines First Step, Opportunities to Move Needle

Frederica Freyberg:

These words from Governor Tony Evers this week. “We must reject the efforts of those who seek to undermine and distract from the pain of generations of injustice. We must condemn all those who encourage violence against black lives. We must offer our compassion. We must offer our support. But most of all, we must offer our action.” And Governor Tony Evers joins us once again in our weekly one-on-one interview and thanks very much for doing so.

Tony Evers:

Thanks, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

So the tangible action that you want to take comes in the form of a legislative bill that would make the primary duty of all law enforcement to preserve the life of all individuals and that deadly force is to be used only as a last resort. Why is that what you call an important first step?

Tony Evers:

Yeah. And that’s great, because that’s what — that’s what brought us to where we are today. Obviously, the horrible murder that we saw in Minneapolis with George Floyd and how that happened because there wasn’t the accountability piece in place as it relates to police relations and interactions with folks. And so, yes, use of force is what we’re looking for. It’s an Assembly bill. It’s already there. It’s really straightforward. It’s about making sure those standards exist so that everybody, both the community and the police know what is expected of them.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now, it certainly —

Tony Evers:

I’m sorry. But it is only a first step. We have an opportunity now that goes, you know, obviously police relations and criminal justice reform, housing. You name it, we have an opportunity now to really move the needle.

Frederica Freyberg:

Specific to that use of force bill, it is certainly being criticized by the chair of the State Senate Public Safety Committee, who is our next guest on this program. He says it was written “by liberal activists who don’t know anything about police work.” What do you say to that?

Tony Evers:

Well, it is — it was written in large part by the people that were — that were protesting using the First Amendment rights. I understand that the senator has lots more criminal justice and police experience than others do. But that doesn’t mean that we can’t move forward on something around accountability for police. 90%, 95%, you name the high number of people that work in the profession are good. We need accountability for people that, frankly, need some help in establishing standards. You don’t have to be a former police officer to understand that.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about mandating and funding implicit bias training for law enforcement, something like that?

Tony Evers:

Absolutely. There are all sorts of good ideas on the table. And as I talk to people all across the state, but particularly in Madison and Milwaukee, on the ground, I’m not talking about elected officials, people that are living this every single day, they say — and they are accurate — there are enough blue ribbon commissions and enough task forces and enough other things that there are ideas out there that can be implemented. And so I’m looking forward to getting the best ideas, especially from those people that are on the ground. Obviously, we have to get support from legislators. But this should be a bipartisan issue.

Frederica Freyberg:

Thursday you declared racism a public health crisis. What tangible steps will you take to heal that crisis?

Tony Evers:

It’s been laid bare during this pandemic, which groups are inordinately and disproportionately impacted by the virus. It’s African-Americans. It’s Hispanics and other people, people of color. And we’ve been talking about this a long time, frankly. I still believe that taking the Medicaid expansion money that we could have done in the last budget would have freed up lots of money for other programs that would have directly impacted the lives of people of color in this state and helped to reduce that disproportionality. To me it’s unacceptable that we have not taken the money our taxpayers have sent to Washington D.C. and we’re getting no benefit from that.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is your position on defunding the police and putting those funds towards things like public health, housing or economic development on behalf of people of color?

Tony Evers:

Yeah. I’ve been asked that question a lot, and possibly even some of the folks you’re talking to tonight are going to be talking about that. But if defunding means remove funding from police officers and the work that they’re doing, the good work that they’re doing, of course I’m not against that. Who’s going to be arresting the person driving 100 miles an hour on the beltline, dead drunk? We have to have some police out there to help us get through these things. But if some of that money could be used differently, around as you talked about before, implicit bias training, psychological help for officers that are working under traumatic circumstances all the time, reappraising how that money is spent to help them become better police officers, I’m all for that.

Frederica Freyberg:

Among the other demands, as you said, that was one, and we will hear about that tonight from some people. But among the other demands from antiracist activists and advocates is to withdraw the National Guard activated in the midst of protests, which, as you know, some of them resulted in widespread property damage. Will you cede to that demand?

Tony Evers:

Well, first of all, the National Guard is sent in when locals ask us for it in Milwaukee and Madison and other places in the state. But my role or my insistence and bottom line is that they serve a limited role. I understand how people feel about military organizations, even though our National Guard has done a great job helping us in the pandemic. So we have insisted with local leaders that they are primarily used to protect property, especially important property like the state Capitol, like electrical situations and water and other utilities, cultural sites. So that’s their role and that’s the role they’re primarily playing. So until they are asking me to have them play a more active role, we will continue to do what I think they’re doing a great job as.

Frederica Freyberg:

You say that we must reestablish trust with communities of color. How do you do it?

Tony Evers:

Well, it’s a long process, but, believe me, we have a long way to go. And one of the things we can do is act, and I believe at the state level we have some actions that we can take to help people that struggle, people of color in the state of Wisconsin. But also we have to make sure that we involve the entire state in this. Our state is becoming more diverse by the day and will continue to operate under that umbrella of changing demographics. And so we need to have these conversations. I think the state has a bully pulpit role to play, but, more importantly, an active role, an action role, that relies on interacting with people on the — you know, elected officials are fine. We’re going to continue those conversations. But the more I and other state leaders spend time speaking to people on the ground in cities and villages across the state on this issue, the better off we’ll be.

Frederica Freyberg:

And you’re committed to doing that in the days and weeks ahead.

Tony Evers:

Yeah. I always have been. This is an issue that I have — it’s been burning in my soul for years. And this — we have — we have a good opportunity in the state of Wisconsin. People are protesting around some really important things, and I’m looking forward to delivering on some of those things they’re interested in.

Frederica Freyberg:

Governor Tony Evers, thank you very much for joining us.

Tony Evers:

Thank you, Frederica. Appreciate it.