Here & Now

GOP, Dem Leaders Discuss Budget’s Final Stages

Frederica Freyberg:
Next week, the state Legislature is scheduled to vote on the Republican version of the state budget. Ahead of that action, Governor Tony Evers late this week addressed the public, calling on Republicans to, “Do the right thing,” and include expanded Medicaid and an increase in the gas tax.

Tony Evers:
Next week, they will take up the budget and they can still choose to do the right thing. Let’s remember, Republicans got to pick their voters. They got to draw the districts the way they wanted to. And I just add to whoever draws Wisconsin’s next maps, good luck in drawing districts that don’t include 70% of Wisconsinites who support Medicaid expansion, the 74% of Wisconsinites who want to see significant increases in special education funding, or even the 83% of Wisconsinites who believe medical marijuana should be legal. Let’s see if the legislators can listen and will listen to the people. Legislators have the opportunity to amend this budget, to do what the people of Wisconsin have asked us to do. I firmly believe that they — if they ignore the will of the people, they do it at their own peril. Once I see the entire budget, then I’ll make the decision on whether we veto an entire budget.

Frederica Freyberg:
The Senate and Assembly are scheduled to vote on their version again next week. Earlier, I sat down with Assembly Speaker Robin Vos. I started by asking what kinds of changes to the Joint Finance version of the budget bill, if any, he expects during the floor debate.

Robin Vos:
So I’m very proud of the work that the Joint Finance Committee did. We know that they’ve gone through a very elaborate process. Governor Evers introduced the budget in February. We had listening sessions with over a thousand people attending. We did our own listening sessions all around the state. Thousands of people attended. We did a survey of the state. So I really feel like we’ve done a good job of listening. So the budget that the Joint Finance Committee has put together, I would say it’s 99.9% done. We always have some things that go through a technical process. We also are going to make sure we go through and guarantee that we can minimize the ability for line item vetoes to change our policy. So that will happen between when the budget is put out sometime late in the week and next we can vote on it, so our members can read the actual document. We know that it’s going to be considerably shorter than the ones that were done under Governor Walker because there’s almost no policy in the budget. So I think in a lot of ways, the budget is ready for prime time. I’m proud of what we have and hopefully it will be able to pass this next week.

Frederica Freyberg:
What are your members telling you?

Robin Vos:
Overall they like the budget. Everybody has concerns. You know, of course if Governor Walker was still in office, we would have a budget that looks dramatically different. We would have a different set of tax cuts. We would certainly spend less than we are under Governor Evers but we’ve accepted the fact that whether we like it or not, Tony Evers is the governor of Wisconsin. He had four priorities and we found a way to meet all of his priorities without the spending and the increases in taxes that he proposed.

Frederica Freyberg:
As you know, many conservatives are critical of the Republican version of the budget as spending and borrowing too much for raises taxes even and fees. What is your response to those concerns?

Robin Vos:
First of all, the budget goes up about the same amount as it did under Governor Walker so it’s not dramatically different. If you look at the four pillars as I said, we know Governor Evers wanted to have a dramatic expansion of welfare. We’re funding our healthcare system without doing that. He wanted to raise the gas tax and have it on automatic increases. We’re not doing that. We wanted to have money for schools in a way that we could sustain and afford, we’re doing that. And most importantly, we have an overall level of spending inside the budget that is sustainable because we are not doing all of the policy choices and the tax increases that he proposed.

Frederica Freyberg:
I don’t have to tell you that two Republican state senators have now said that they will vote no on this budget. Now several GOP senators held up the last budget. A time at which you referred to them as “terrorists” for that action. Do you think we’re going to be in the same place this time around?

Robin Vos:
I don’t think so. I mean the best thing is, our caucuses have been working very closely together. Senator Fitzgerald and I meet on a much more regular basis than we have in the past. I think we’re in sync as what our goals are. We know what we want to make sure is that we don’t expand welfare. We don’t raise taxes and we have a reasonable level of spending. If you remember in the last budget, Senator Craig voted against the Walker budget so I think it’s highly unlikely that there was any way he was going to vote for a budget no matter what we would do because he just wouldn’t vote for even Scott Walker’s budget. So I think people have to accept the fact we’re in divided government. I don’t like it but I think we have to find ways to get things done and our budget does that.

Frederica Freyberg:
Have you spoken to Senator Fitzgerald as to whether or not he believes that he can hold this to two no-votes?

Robin Vos:
I’m very confident in Senator Fitzgerald’s abilities. I know that in our Assembly Republican caucus, I think we’re going to have near unanimity, if not every single person on the Republican side voting for the budget because, once again, cuts taxes, reasonable level of spending, invests in our priorities of healthcare and schools and we’re actually able to find a long term answer for beginning to fund the transportation system that we all know we’ve been talking about for almost a decade.

Frederica Freyberg:
Now you didn’t want to expand Medicaid or welfare, as you call it, for example, over your dead bodies, but what if Tony Evers takes his veto pen to the budget in a significant way over his signature priorities?

Robin Vos:
He has every right to do that. It’s a constitutional office, of course. The governor has the most powerful line item veto in the country. I have said continually that we have a budget that meets his priorities, albeit in a much more conservative way. So in divided government, nobody gets everything that they want. So if Tony Evers believes that somehow he is going to cow tow the Republican legislature into raising income taxes or expanding welfare, it is never going to happen. So hopefully he accepts that reality and we can work for a budget that all of us can agree on.

Frederica Freyberg:
Have you met with him to talk about this?

Robin Vos:
We have not met in a couple weeks. So of course we’re happy to do that, but the priorities that we have set aren’t going to really change because we are not going to expend welfare. We’re not going to raise taxes.

Frederica Freyberg:
What is your message to him further?

Robin Vos:
Well, I think that the budget that we put together is one we can all rally around. Governor Evers’ priorities were focused on more money for special education, we did that. More money for education, we did that. More money for healthcare, we’ve done that. And fixing the damn roads as he says, and we’ve done that too. So if you look at the methodology that we’ve used, it’s conservative. It’s smaller government. It’s trying to have a much more productive long term answer than just raising taxes and expending welfare. So hopefully he would be able to look at that as other governors have done and say you can never get the entire loaf. We’ve accepted that and hopefully he can too.

Frederica Freyberg:
Speaker Robin Vos, thanks very much.

Robin Vos:
Thanks. I appreciate it Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:
I spoke with Speaker Vos earlier. We’re joined now by the Assembly Minority Leader Democrat Gordon Hintz, who joins us from Oshkosh. Thank you for doing so.

Gordon Hintz:
Happy to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:
First, what is your reaction to the state Supreme Court ruling today upholding the lame duck legislation that limits the authority of the governor and attorney general?

Gordon Hintz:
Well, it was disappointing as was the actual lame duck session in itself. It’s a scar, really, on our democracy when you have a democratically-elected governor and attorney general who are undermined in terms of their powers before they’re even sworn in. And so maybe with this Supreme Court, it shouldn’t be a surprise but this is something that will be a stain on Wisconsin history for some time.

Frederica Freyberg:
I was going to ask even as other challenges to the lame duck laws are pending, in your mind, what are the implications of that legislation going forward?

Gordon Hintz:
Well, I can tell you from the Legislature standpoint, it’s kind of created a toxic political environment. Again, before we even got started, it was clear that the Republican majority was going to do everything possible to thwart this governor and attorney general. Again, democratically-elected by the public. And it’s been consistent in terms of how they’ve operated on the budget and in other things. Obviously in the ability of the governor and attorney general to fulfill what the people elected them to do, the restriction of those powers do have real implications. And so the future decisions hopefully will go better, especially in federal court, than our rubber stamp Supreme Court at this point.

Frederica Freyberg:
On the state budget, there’s obviously a major disconnect between Republicans and the governor over items like Medicaid expansion and a gas tax hike. How does the governor in your mind get what he wants without vetoing the budget?

Gordon Hintz:
Well, I think reminding Republicans that it’s not just a disconnect between Republicans and the governor, it’s really a disconnect between Republicans and the public. You have a governor who campaigned on issues. Who was elected on issues. Who said he wasn’t going to be about politics but he was going to invest in the priorities of the state. I think his budget addressed that from transportation to healthcare with the Medicaid expansion, to school funding. What the Republicans have done flies in the face of what we’ve seen public opinion, 70% in support of the Medicaid expansion. And yesterday at the press conference, he reminded folks that, you know, it’s not just about those issues. Part of being in the Legislature and being governor representing the public is being a good steward of those dollars and being financially responsible to maximize the benefit to the state but also the resources that we have. And compared to the governor’s budget, the current budget is such a missed opportunity and fails.

Frederica Freyberg:
I know that Tony Evers says that he has to see the final version before he decides about a full veto. Speaker Vos tells us it’s pretty much in the shape it’s going to be. Knowing what you know, what do you think the governor will do?

Gordon Hintz:
Well, I think we can’t really say. It’s not just about — I mean, I don’t think they have the votes right now. We’ve heard there’s at least two votes in the Republican Senate not in support of the budget. And my guess is it will be a busy weekend as they try to solve things behind closed doors. So we can’t say until we see the final budget but it also depends on the form that it ultimately takes when it comes out of the Legislature. What kind of options are available to the governor to actually make improvements. And again, what are the pros and cons of either a full veto or a pretty significant vetoes of entire sections of the budget. I can tell you that there is large constituencies that are advocating for Medicaid expansion, who are calling for just that. But that being said, I trust Governor Evers to do what’s in the best interest of the public. Again he’s been that way throughout his career. He’s campaigned that way and he’s governed that way. And I really trust him to do what he can to make this the best deal for the state of Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:
Of all the things the Republican budget changed from the executive plan, what’s of most concern to you?

Gordon Hintz:
Sure, well, what’s most concerning is that the budget seems to be really good for Illinois, Iowa and Minnesota. It just came out yesterday that state taxpayers are going to pay more than a billion dollars in our tax money to those states so they can expand Medicaid expansion and use those resources to pay for those schools. We have a transportation plan that makes sure that we stick it just to Wisconsin drivers, even though 20% of gas tax revenues paid for by out of state people. So one, it’s who they are choosing to ultimately, you know, penalize and that’s Wisconsin residents. The second one is just the — not maximizing the available resources. Even if you have concerns about expanding Medicaid, the resources available to the state to pay for tax cuts, to pay for education, to fund the UW System which got butchered in this budget, you know, is just — it doesn’t make any sense from a fiscal standpoint or really a moral standpoint. And so if you look at the fact — with state resources, the Republican budget and the governor’s budget don’t spend too much differently, but it’s leaving more than a billion dollars on the table of that federal money which really is a missed opportunity.

Frederica Freyberg:
All right, Minority Leader Gordon Hintz, thanks very much.

Gordon Hintz:
Thank you.