Frederica Freyberg:

Now to COVID-19 and how federal lawmakers are responding to certain aspects of it including the introduction of a bill called the Medical Supply Chain Security Act. It’s designed to strengthen the flow of medical supplies by giving new authorizations to the Food and Drug Administration. Among other things the bill gives the FDA more power to locate and direct the flow of medical supplies and requires medical manufacturers to notify the government when supplies are running low. The bill was introduced this week by Republican U.S. Representative Mike Gallagher who joins us from Green Bay and Democratic U.S. Representative Mark Pocan who’s in Madison. Welcome to you both.

Mark Pocan, Mike Gallagher:

Thank you. Glad to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:

First to you Representative Pocan, why did you introduce this bill?

Mark Pocan:

Well, Mike reached out to us. Senator Hawley in the Senate introduced the bill. I’ve been dealing with through my subcommittee on appropriations all things coronavirus. There’s a real problem around supply chains period. We keep track somewhat of drugs produced in China but we don’t keep track of things like the active ingredients for drugs that are made in other places. And we don’t keep track of things for medical devices. When this bill came over from Mike’s office, we were very happy to do this with him. It’s an important information that we have to have whether it be on drugs or medical devices. If we don’t know in a time like this or any time in the future, you really need to know where things are produced so you don’t have shortages.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Gallagher, why did you spearhead this?

Mike Gallagher:

Well, I think COVID-19 really provides an acute illustration of something we’ve been learning over the last three years or waking up to, which is the fact that a lot of our supply chains run through Beijing and therefore are inherently fragile. As we attempt to incentivize more domestic manufacturing, we should start not only with key national security technology but medical manufacturing. And the fact is right now we’re learning that so many of the drugs we rely upon, so many of the simple devices that we need in times like this, whether it’s masks, respirators, they’re often mass produced in China. And that’s fundamentally unacceptable when you’re in the midst of dealing with something like COVID-19. This is one small way where we can begin to shore up and strengthen our domestic manufacturing capability and also keep our citizens healthy.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Pocan, what do you know, what can you tell us about shortages in place now as a result of coronavirus or potentially threatening our response to it?

Mark Pocan:

Sure, a week ago Friday I asked this very question at one of the panels we had. We know there is at least 20 drugs that are probably solely sourced in China that we’re watching very closely. There could be shortages because of production. There’s an overall list of about 146 drugs as of a week ago Friday on that list. But what we don’t keep track of are things like medical devices which is why Mike and I have this bill. We don’t keep track of active ingredients. So sometimes a drug may be produced in India or another country but the active ingredient that you can’t make the drug without is still produced in China. We don’t keep track of that at all. Those are some of the things we have to know or else you could have shortages here in the United States or you could even have China say that any production in China the priority is going to stay in China at some point in the future and that could cause problems.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Gallagher, this legislation would be for next time though, right? Because we’re currently in the circumstance where we have this over reliance on products made in China?

Mike Gallagher:

Yes, which is why it’s good we came together yesterday before Mark and I left D.C. to pass $8 billion in emergency supplemental funding to get at this crisis. $4 billion of which would be geared towards rapid production of testing. If you talk to officials in Hong Kong and in Korea, they will swear that fast, rapid deployment of testing is the path to getting a handle on this. That’s where we really need to be doing more. I’m glad most of our colleagues came together in a bipartisan fashion this week to provide the CDC and other health officials at HHS the resources they need in order to devolve resources to the states, to the county governments to do as much testing as possible.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Pocan, do you know at all how much of that $8 billion might be coming Wisconsin’s way?

Mark Pocan:

Not exactly. However, again even that money some of it is going for fighting the virus, a lot of other things, helping local and state health departments. The issue we have right now that we really have to focus the most on is the testing. And as of this week the numbers of tests still aren’t that many. By the end of next week, hopefully it’s at a level that will be more useful. My real concern is we’re not proactively testing more people especially people in hospitals who have pneumonia-like symptoms. We can’t just wait for people to come in. Unfortunately there has been bad press. People who’ve gone to get a test, tested negative and then wound up with a $3200 bill. That’s spooking people. We don’t really have some answers for how to make sure no one would be turned away because they don’t have the resources. It is definitely in progress as we’re figuring this out. There have been some missteps early on especially around testing. But I and a lot of medical people including Ron Klain who ran the Ebola crisis, he was the czar essentially during President Obama think we have to change focus and really start proactively testing these people and we’re not doing that right now.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Gallagher, do you agree with that? That testing is the key right now?

Mike Gallagher:

Well, I do think testing is the key. We have as I understand it CDC has loosened some of the regulations in terms of what facilities are allowed to test. I think one thing we should also be looking at in this space is how do we waive, if not lower the cost of telehealth procedures and assessment. There are limits to what you can do via telehealth but particularly as we try to prevent community spread. I’m hearing from a lot of hospital systems here in northeast Wisconsin that they’re worried about being in violation of Stark Law at the same time they’re trying to do more telehealth services right now. So there’s a lot of things we’re learning about the system right now which isn’t always operating in the most efficient way possible but yet another reason I’m glad Mark and I who, I think it’s fair to say probably disagree on a lot of healthcare-related issues, were able to come together on an area where we agree in the face of something like this. Put aside any partisan differences and try and do what’s best for Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Pocan, how do you think overall this outbreak has been managed by the Trump administration?

Mark Pocan:

It’s in progress. Clearly there have been some missteps early on. I would be much happier if the only people who were the spokespersons to the American people were doctors. Dr. Tony Fauci I think has respect from everyone: democrat and republican. Having a politician be the spokesperson is maybe not the best thing. Especially when they are saying you can go to work with the coronavirus. No, you shouldn’t. That would be an awful idea. What we know right now, the most important thing for everyone to know is wash your hands, cough into your elbow and don’t touch your face. And trust me that’s much harder. As they told us that I was holding my face in my hand at the briefing. If we follow that for most people, were in pretty good shape. But the problem is by not keeping track — earlier this week we quit keeping track of how many people we tested — now they’re doing that again after we raised some concerns. Certain populations, if you’re over 60 or you have some health ailments, 15 to 20% of people are going to wind up being hospitalized for this. We really have to be following this very closely so that the appropriate populations are protected.

Frederica Freyberg:

Representative Gallagher there seem to have really been some mixed messages out of the Trump administration from the president himself that fly contrary to what some of the scientific or medical officials are saying. What about that and how should citizens kind of understand what’s going on?

Mike Gallagher:

Well, I think the Trump administration was right to be forward leaning on the targeted travel ban in China. We now have the same in place for Iran and certain parts of Italy and South Korea. That’s something we need to continue to monitor. But in a globalized economy, where Mark and I know we fly on airplanes twice a week, it’s just hard where people are flying around all the time to fully contain the spread even with a targeted travel ban in place. Where I think we should be even more forward leaning as we try and think about the next time should there be a next time is let us recognize that the Chinese Communist Party out of fear of its own citizens’ knowledge has obfuscated on the origin of this disease, had refused the help of a lot of our CDC experts and thereby endangered global health. That’s something that we have not quite frankly been forceful enough on sending that message to everyone around the world. The CCP is a corrupt organization that is endangering the lives of people all over the world.

Frederica Freyberg:

We need to leave it there. Representative Gallagher in Green Bay and Representative Pocan here in Madison. Thanks to you both.

Mike Gallagher, Mark Pocan:

Thank you.