Frederica Freyberg:

More now on immigration policy. The U.S. Supreme Court recently lifted an injunction and allowed the Trump Administration rule regarding immigrants to soon take effect. It’s a rule that is designed to constrain legal immigration by reducing the number of people who are eligible for green cards and other visas. It’s called the “Public Charge Rule” and it determines how many public benefits an immigrant can use before their application for legal status is denied. It’s now been redefined and expanded. It’s causing a lot of uncertainty and fear for people seeking permanent legal status. For more on the implications of this rule change, we turn to William Parke Sutherland. He’s the health policy engagement coordinator at the Madison-based Kids Forward. The group is part of the Wisconsin Collaboration on Immigrants and Public Benefits. Thanks very much for being here.

William Parke Sutherland:

Thank you so much for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

Who exactly does this expanded rule affect?

William Parke Sutherland:

I think the most important thing to realize is that the vast majority of immigrants it does not affect. The vast majority of immigrants are safe from this rule. So people with humanitarian visas, people who are refugees or asylees, people who are here sort of as a — who are victims of crimes or victims of trafficking. So all of those people are safe and are not impacted. The other important thing is that people who have their green cards already, as long as they don’t leave the U.S. for six months, they are also safe. So this does not affect citizenship.

Frederica Freyberg:

Of the people it does affect, though you say it is a small kind of slice, what kinds of public benefits fall under this new definition?

William Parke Sutherland:

Yeah. So that is also fairly narrow. I mean, people sort of think that there’s a whole scope of benefits that is included. And it’s Medicaid, so Medicaid and long-term care, so BadgerCare in Wisconsin. The — excuse me, sorry — the housing assistance, FoodShare or SNAP, and then cash assistance, so like W2. There’s a whole bunch of programs that are not impacted, like the Affordable Care Act, marketplace credit, so if you go on the healthcare.gov and get health insurance there, and then the WIC program or the Women, Infants and Children program is also, that’s not impacted.

Frederica Freyberg:

So some important programs are not impacted, but the understanding is that this is causing a lot of fear and anxiety among people in these communities. For an example of that, we want to listen to Caroline Gomez-Tom from the 16th Street Community Health Center in Milwaukee, who describes people worrying that they’ll have to pay money back that their children have received.

William Parke Sutherland:

Yeah.

Caroline Gomez-Tom:

We’ve also seen women who are pregnant that are eligible for the prenatal program, BadgerCare program that is not included in the Public Charge Rule not want prenatal services and care at our clinic as well or just at community health centers generally.

Frederica Freyberg:

So is that similar to what you’re hearing?

William Parke Sutherland:

Yeah. And we work closely with Caroline and we’ve had heard from places across the country that, you know, women are declining prenatal services or enrollment for women, infants and children, you know, that that’s going down. And both of those things are not impacted by the rule. I mean, I think that this is kind of yet another example of the Trump Administration kind of wrongly discouraging people from accessing benefits that help their families meet basic needs and so many of those benefits aren’t included and so many of those people are exempt from this Public Charge Rule.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what is your organization and others doing to kind of reach out to immigrant communities who are worried about this? We understand the worry has rippled across the country?

William Parke Sutherland:

Yeah. The chilling effect is certainly far — it’s a far worse consequence than who’s directly actually impacted by the rule. So the Collaboration on Immigrants and Public Benefits has put together easy-to-understand fact sheets about who the rule impacts, who’s safe from the rule. We have a whole list of programs that people can safely use. We have a fact sheet specifically on children and how this rule impacts them and it impacts them much less than adults. So children can safely use Medicaid programs. So children can be on BadgerCare. We are really trying to counter this fear. And the best way to counter that fear is through facts.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We leave it there. William Parke Sutherland, Kids Forward, thanks very much.

William Parke Sutherland:

Thank you so much.