Frederica Freyberg:

Many places are back to business as usual without restrictions. The state Supreme Court decision comes just two days after a new directive from Governor Tony Evers that turned the dial to open Wisconsin a bit more. Under that new order earlier in the week, small retail businesses could reopen with restrictions. The order allowed customers to visit places like strip malls with doors that enter and exit directly to the outside, allowing for no more than five patrons inside at one time. A patchwork of counties and cities across the state are keeping the “Safer at Home” guidelines in place while others have fully reopened. We talk about this week’s developments in our weekly one-on-one with Tony Evers, who joined us earlier. And, governor, thanks very much for doing so.

Tony Evers:

Thanks, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

We led into this talking about how your phased-in approach to reopening businesses was starting this week, when the Supreme Court shelved your plan. What was it like, first, when you learned of the decision, and then when you read it?

Tony Evers:

Well, it was disappointing, you know. I’ve always felt that facts and the state statutes and precedence mattered. It certainly didn’t in this case. It was just a wrong-headed decision. And so the bottom line is the impact has been immediate. There is — essentially they found it to be unconstitutional, and so we’ve moved into the new world of having no rule of the road.

Frederica Freyberg:

What was your reaction when you saw people pouring into bars immediately following the decision?

Tony Evers:

I know not all bars and all businesses are that way, but certainly to have the Tavern League get out in front of this and then having many too people together in a small place, shoulder to shoulder, no masks, it’s inviting the virus to walk on in and be transmitted. That’s the bottom line.

Frederica Freyberg:

In the face of that, several local or county health departments imposed their own safety orders in place of the statewide plan. But now some are starting to rescind them, worried about whether or not in fact they’re legal because of that court ruling. What in your mind does this say about this local approach?

Tony Evers:

Well, that’s just it. It creates great confusion, first of all, and — depending on the county you live in, and so that’s the main concern. Some of them may walk them back. Some of them won’t. I think it’s less around — less around the legality of it. I think, you know, it’s a different section of the law. So I think they have the ability to do it. But they want to make sure that they’re consistent with their neighbors, and I guess that’s a rational thing to do. But at the end of the day, having this being done locally creates a lot of confusion and, frankly, I think it doesn’t do much for people’s confidence.

Frederica Freyberg:

You’re now meeting with Speaker Vos and Majority Leader Fitzgerald to work up administrative rules to manage the pandemic, and your Department of Health wrote a scope statement outlining those rules. I read them. They look very much like “Safer at Home” and Badger Bounce Back under a different name. Why do you think those are going to fly?

Tony Evers:

Well, first of all, a scope statement is a very broad statement of what we’re going to be looking at. And, as you see, there’s lots of “mays” in that statement. And so, yes, it gives us a parameter. What matters is the rule itself. But also, Frederica, to be honest with you, this isn’t going to be any grand bargain among the Democrats and the Republicans because essentially we were told by the leadership that they weren’t going to accept anything that creates any new restrictions or new parameters around what’s happening now. In fact, they were very happy with what exists.

Frederica Freyberg:

In fact, the co-chair of the Rules Committee that must vote on and can veto any rules, Republican Senator Stephen Nass said, “I call on Governor Evers to withdraw the scope statement and end this needless confrontation.” What is your reaction to that?

Tony Evers:

I’d say wait until you see the rule. This is a scope statement, Senator Nass. This is not the rule. But again, I don’t want people to believe that this is some sort of panacea and a grand bargain. We’ve already told by the leadership that what’s going to come out of this is not going to be any kind of impingement or restriction on what already has happened. In fact, they’re very happy about that. You know, shortly after the turn of the month, May 1 or 2, get a letter from Speaker Vos saying they’re looking forward to slow, deliberate, thoughtful way of opening the economy, just like we are. But intervening has been this Supreme Court race — or not race, but the decision. So it is what it is. It exists, and we’re going to do everything we can to make sure — we’re hopeful people will still stay at home when they’re not out and were going to continue to test and do the tracings and all the things that are important.

Frederica Freyberg:

Governor Tony Evers, thanks very much for joining us. Of course, we and everyone else will be watching these developments. Thank you.

Tony Evers:

Thank you, Frederica.