Frederica Freyberg:

At the Capitol this week, the Republican-led Rules Committee heard testimony about updated immunization requirements for children who attend school and daycare. Among the updates, the Department of Health Services changed or added rules for vaccines that prevent meningitis and chickenpox. DHS officials testifying were met with hostility from some committee members wanting to rehash mandates made during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Steve Nass:

When we look at that past history, and a number of things that were just flat out wrong and kids have been harmed because of the school shut-downs, how do we trust you, and honest to God, that made me so angry back then, and even now, I’ll be honest with you, when I see you, I refer to you as Wisconsin’s Dr. Fauci.

Frederica Freyberg:

To understand more about these vaccine changes, we turn to Dr. Greg DeMuri, an infectious disease pediatrician at UW Health. Doctor, thanks very much for being here.

Greg DeMuri:

My pleasure to be here.

Frederica Freyberg:

The Rules Committee voted the state health department cannot require a meningitis vaccination in the 7th grade and then a booster in the 12th grade. As an infectious disease physician, what’s your reaction?

Greg DeMuri:

Well, it’s quite concerning. We know these are safe vaccines. These two illnesses can be devastating. Meningitis, or more appropriately, meningococcal disease, can result in death, can result in amputation of the limbs and, you know, all of us in infectious disease have seen that as part of our job, part of our career. Knowing there’s a way to prevent this and make our schools safe and keep our schools safe from this, it’s really disheartening to hear this.

Frederica Freyberg:

How contagious, also, is meningitis?

Greg DeMuri:

It’s quite contagious. I believe there’s an outbreak right now in Virginia. We’ve had outbreaks in Wisconsin. It can go through universities and college campuses, barracks and military installations, so it’s one of those very highly contagious, highly infectious diseases.

Frederica Freyberg:

Do most families go ahead and get it regardless of kind of what the rules are? Are pediatricians recommending it?

Greg DeMuri:

It’s been strongly recommended for quite some time now and most families, fortunately, do go ahead and get it. Although there’s not quite as much awareness of this vaccine than some of other vaccines. We also know that school requirements increase and improve our immunization rates in communities. Those states that have the most robust school requirements have the highest immunization rates. And here, even in Wisconsin, we’ve seen when we implement this rule for schools, our immunization rates go up and the disease rates go down.

Frederica Freyberg:

So the legislature also removed a new requirement that a healthcare provider confirm that a child had chickenpox to not have to have the vaccination and it reverts back to kind of the current rule where a parent can come in and say, “Oh, yes, my child had chickenpox and so I’d like to be exempt from having to prove that vaccination.” Is that enough in your mind to have parents be able to attest to that?

Greg DeMuri:

It’s not. I think this was a good rule change. It’s been my experience that it’s become very difficult for parents to diagnose chickenpox. Even young physicians sometimes have trouble doing it. Those of us who were around before 1990, the early ’90s when this vaccine came out, have certainly seen plenty of chickenpox, but since that time, many parents and even young physicians haven’t seen it and we need to have some more confirmatory testing to be able to do it.

Frederica Freyberg:

Of note also is the declining rate of childhood vaccinations in Wisconsin since COVID dropping from about 92% in 2020 to just under 89% in the last year. How concerning is this for pediatricians?

Greg DeMuri:

We’re very concerned. Again, this is a disturbing phenomenon. It’s certainly something that I think paralleled COVID and misinformation that was out about COVID vaccine and also about COVID disease itself. So some of the anti-science misinformation that’s out there has now carried over to other vaccines and that’s quite concerning for the possibility of new outbreaks of infectious diseases that have been quieted for years.

Frederica Freyberg:

Do you see patients and families that kind of hold onto that misinformation and declare that, no, they don’t want vaccines?

Greg DeMuri:

We do. Unfortunately, we do. This attitude is certainly become more prevalent since COVID, and it’s something we try to provide information about, provide the latest scientific and best scientific information we have, and our experience. Many of us, many pediatricians and family doctors in the community, have seen many of these illnesses and can provide that experience to their families.

Frederica Freyberg:

Still out there also is the misinformation about vaccines causing autism. What is your message on that?

Greg DeMuri:

You know, this has been debunked now over and over again. Initial concern was for measles vaccine and some other vaccines and it’s something that just isn’t scientifically established or proven. In fact, the opposite has been shown, that there’s no link between vaccines and autism. Parents can be very assured of that and very confident in the safety of the vaccines.

Frederica Freyberg:

In a broader sense, in your mind, should lawmakers be making decisions on childhood vaccines or should it be public health officials?

Greg DeMuri:

It should be public officials in consultation with physicians and physician-scientists using the best science we have, the best epidemiology and scientific information we have. I think here in Wisconsin, our state government has done that, taken the input of local and national and regional leaders in making those decisions.

Frederica Freyberg:

We leave it there, Dr. Greg DeMuri. Thanks very much.

Greg DeMuri:

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.