Frederica Freyberg:

Convicted domestic abusers in Wisconsin can now get concealed carry gun permits. That’s after the state Supreme Court ruled that because of federal law, misdemeanor disorderly conduct convictions, even if they involve domestic abuse, do not prevent legally carrying a gun. As to that, this quote from End Domestic Abuse Wisconsin, “It is beyond a doubt that Wisconsin victims of domestic violence will be violently, and in many cases lethally, impacted by the decision.” Jenna Gormal is co-director of prevention and engagement at the organization. She joins us now. Thanks very much for being here.

Jenna Gormal:

Thanks for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

How will this decision lethally impact victims of domestic violence?

Jenna Gormal:

So the lethal impact of this decision is very clear. Every year we conduct a domestic violence homicide report which details the lives lost to domestic violence by year. In that report, we include detailed narratives of the homicides along with precipitating factors and one of the precipitating factors we see every year is a charge of disorderly conduct. So what that means is the abusive partner was charged with a misdemeanor crime of disorderly conduct prior to murdering their partner. So the link between a conviction of misdemeanor disorderly conduct and domestic violence is very clear. And a woman is five times more likely to be murdered when her abuser has access to a gun.

Frederica Freyberg:

What are some of the other statistics on the use of guns in domestic violence homicides?

Jenna Gormal:

Well, firearms are the main weapon used in domestic violence homicides in Wisconsin. And our latest data shows that in 2020, firearms were used in over half of domestic violence homicide incidents, and that is a statistic we see year on year, roughly half. And threats to kill double the rest of homicides, so again, when you have access to a firearm, the risk of homicide is five times higher.

Frederica Freyberg:

How frightened are advocates and victims as a result of this ruling?

Jenna Gormal:

I would say that there is a lot of concern. It’s very frightening. This specific type of charge is one of the most common charges in domestic violence cases, and when you are a victim of domestic violence, it is terrifying as it is but the knowledge that your partner is unable to access a weapon is somewhat — it’s helpful to know and it makes you feel a little bit more at ease. So it’s very, very scary. And advocates are absolutely feeling it.

Frederica Freyberg:

If the state high court has to follow this federal law around misdemeanor disorderly conduct convictions not preventing the carrying of a gun, wouldn’t the answer be to have a standalone domestic violence statute on the books in Wisconsin?

Jenna Gormal:

Yes, that would be. I think there are a range of responses and what we do need is legislation that brings state law in line with federal law, and we do have that legislation available. It was introduced in the last session but it didn’t go to a hearing despite bipartisan support. So what we need to recognize now is that the lives of victims are at stake and the safety of victims are at stake. And it’s not just the lives of victims, it’s the lives of the general public. We see a link between mass shootings and domestic violence. In 60% of cases with mass shootings, there is a direct link with domestic violence, so this is really a public health issue, and we need to make sure that legislation moves fast so we can get these laws on the books.

Frederica Freyberg:

For the legislators who don’t approve of kind of closing the loophole with a standalone law, what do they say to you about why not?

Jenna Gormal:

I guess the reason that we come up against the law is that there’s a right to own firearms and that it is taking the right away from folks to own firearms. Our response to that is that safety should always be centered. And when it comes to having firearms, common sense firearm legislation is something that the general public do want, and I think that everyone wants to make sure that firearms are in the hands of safe people that we don’t have firearms in the hands of folks who are dangerous and who pose a threat to the public.

Frederica Freyberg:

You spoke a moment ago about the correlation between mass shootings and domestic violence. What is that correlation?

Jenna Gormal:

So around two thirds of mass shootings in the U.S. involve a history of domestic violence. So that can be a threat of committing domestic violence and mass shootings connected to domestic violence incidents are perpetrated by a shooter with a history of domestic violence have higher fatality rates.

Frederica Freyberg:

Jenna Gormal, thanks very much for your work and thanks for joining us.

Jenna Gormal:

Thank you. Thanks for having me.