Frederica Freyberg:

So when it comes to COVID public health practices, is the new normal like the old normal? Well, it could take a while because some Wisconsinites who were compliant to the letter with guidelines, are discovering it may be easier to put a mask on, than to take it off. We open the door to post-demic life now with someone who has been a valuable resource to us this year, state epidemiologist Dr. Ryan Westergaard. I should say this year and last year but welcome.

Ryan Westergaard:

Thanks for having me back.

Frederica Freyberg:

With restrictions mostly lifted, is this over?

Ryan Westergaard:

It’s not quite over, although I think everyone agrees we are in a much better place than we were even just a few months ago, so — but as of today and this last week, there is still just under 200 people in Wisconsin who are in the hospital with COVID-19 and these past several weeks we have averaged four deaths per day. The pandemic is still here, things are looking better. We have learned a lot, but it is not over yet.

Frederica Freyberg:

Is there any sense on your part with restrictions gone, there will be a surge?

Ryan Westergaard:

Well, we hope not but we need to remain vigilant. The decision by CDC a couple of weeks ago to really change the norms around mask-wearing from mandates in large community settings to making it an individual choice, was really reflective of the science that showed when enough people are vaccinated and vaccination is highly effective as we know it is, we are protected as a community from surges. There is still some threats because there are viruses still circulating. The threat of emergence of new genetic variants that might be more highly transmissible is ever present, but our hope is with now approximately half of the people in the country and in Wisconsin getting vaccinated, that we are in a safer place overall as a community.

Frederica Freyberg:

Should the public though be concerned about infection if unvaccinated people will not in fact, wear masks, even though the guidance says they should?

Ryan Westergaard:

I think if we are particularly in indoor settings where there is people with mixed vaccination status, meaning people who have been fully vaccinated and people who haven’t, for me if I was organizing one of those events and particularly if there were going to be older folks or medically-vulnerable folks, I think wearing masks in those settings is still a reasonable recommendation to have as a norm for vaccinated and unvaccinated people. But the focus really for public health recommendations are to encourage people to make these individual choices. The recommendation for people that have not been fully vaccinated remains exactly the same, which is to wear masks when you go out.

Frederica Freyberg:

Our reporter Will Cushman described this phase of COVID as a positive thing, but also messy and confusing, and it does seem even in Dane County where vaccination rates are high, people are slow to let go of their masks. They just don’t feel safe about it. What is the psychology of this and do you expect it to take time to readapt?

Ryan Westergaard:

I do. I think a lot of us have personal experience with that. You know, as you mentioned, I’m talking to you here in the state office building where the Department of Health Services is, and we just recently removed the mask-wearing norm for fully vaccinated people, and people are finding it a little awkward and a little confusing. I think like all things related to individual decisions, we deserve to give and receive kindness and compassion and empathy to each other as we make these decisions, because it’s been extraordinarily unusual and difficult year for everybody. There is no one right way or wrong way to feel or act in this environment. We just need to support each other and respect each other’s decisions and wearing masks when people are out in public even if people are fully vaccinated is a totally acceptable thing to do and fully supported by the science.

Frederica Freyberg:

Even though the world now seems almost fully open, is it still important in your mind to get vaccinated if you haven’t been?

Ryan Westergaard:

In my mind that is the single most important thing people can do. We know about the effectiveness of vaccines, both on the individual level and on the community level. There is really no other medical or preventive health treatment that I could recommend as enthusiastically as a COVID-19 vaccine. Both as a physician to my individual patients or as medical officer for the Health Department, it really is our strongest possible recommendation. All that being said, we understand this is a new vaccine, that the science is complex and that people have questions. So we want to have that firm, enthusiastic recommendation, but also be prepared to listen when people have questions about vaccines, and providers need to listen to patients who aren’t immediately eager or enthusiastic about getting a vaccine. People in the community need to listen and to trust each other. Talk with people you know about whether you have been vaccinated, what the experience was like, and ask honest questions about the really complicated science. When we try to communicate in public health and medicine to the science, we are highly confident in the vaccines, but it is going to take some time to bring people along and for everyone to feel comfortable with the idea.

Frederica Freyberg:

We leave it there. Dr. Ryan Westergaard, thank you very much and thank you for your work.

Ryan Westergaard:

Thank you.