Frederica Freyberg:

Turning to COVID-19 in Wisconsin, over the course of the pandemic, Madison and Dane County Public Health imposed strict emergency orders, including mandating masks in public spaces. That mask order expires next week. So if one of the strictest prevention efforts in Wisconsin is now going away, what does that say about where we stand with this disease? We ask Ajay Sethi, associate professor in the Department of Population Health Sciences at the UW School of Medicine and Public Health. Thanks very much for being here.

Ajay Sethi:

Thank you for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

It seems like when even the strict Dane County eases up on masks and now today the CDC is doing the same. We’re in a new phase. Even as hospitalizations are still in the hundreds.

Ajay Sethi:

Yeah. Indeed. We’re just getting past the spike in cases due to omicron that also led to a lot of hospitalizations and deaths. And it’s a time to rethink our next phase of the pandemic and how we can move forward living with COVID but also taking necessary precautions as needed.

Frederica Freyberg:

Should we just be kind of comfortable with getting a breakthrough case, for example, of omicron, if that happens at this point?

Ajay Sethi:

Well, if you are vaccinated, and especially if you are boosted, you really can feel confident that the vaccines will protect you against having severe illness. If you have a weakened immune system, that’s a situation where it’s important to talk to your healthcare provider to see what are the options for you. In some cases, a fourth dose might be recommended. But no doubt the vaccines remain effective against severe illness and death, and it’s a time to acknowledge that we can potentially move forward and live with COVID and feel comfortable.

Frederica Freyberg:

Would most people in Wisconsin not vaccinated have already been infected, thereby helping us along to herd immunity, of which we’ve spoken?

Ajay Sethi:

There’s definitely a lot of immunity out there. From past infection, from vaccination, a combination of both. There are estimates that maybe 70% or higher of people in Wisconsin have some form of immunity and that definitely helps create a bit of a wall for the virus — to prevent the virus from being passed from one person to another. The wild card, of course, is future variants, and the ability of future variants to escape some of that immunity we have in the population. But right now we can feel comfortable that there’s a lot of protection that is out there.

Frederica Freyberg:

So the question is, when does COVID-19 become endemic, and what even is the definition of that?

Ajay Sethi:

Yeah. There isn’t necessarily an answer that we can all agree upon. And it’s not just a mathematical answer. It’s really when society feels that we can tolerate or we can manage the cases that are being transmitted. And I would say as long as our healthcare systems can manage surges that occur, much like they prepare for flu season, if there is a COVID season that’s in the winter months, our healthcare systems can deliver care to everybody. No matter what their needs are. That’s a sign that as a society we can live with COVID. But, of course, we have to get there. I think there’s a desire for endemicity right now, but we need time to sort of prove as a society that we can indeed live with COVID, but I think we can get there.

Frederica Freyberg:

Okay. One other question. Is long COVID no longer a concern for folks or people who’ve had the omicron?

Ajay Sethi:

It’s still a concern. Especially if you are unvaccinated. It’s a risk. It can occur. And it’s not as rare as some people may think. Vaccinated individuals, especially those who were boosted don’t have the same risk for long COVID. At least that’s what the research is showing right now. And that’s why I think with that important tool it’s important to continue to remind those over 2 million Wisconsinites who aren’t vaccinated yet that it’s a good option because we want people to avoid COVID and those long-term outcomes for some individuals.

Frederica Freyberg:

Who should still again be taking precautions?

Ajay Sethi:

It’s not a bad idea for anybody to take precautions. Especially if they perceive their risk to be high. But those with co-morbidities, older individuals and of course, anybody who’s unvaccinated, just remember they are the most vulnerable for getting COVID. Even if you’ve had past infection, that immunity may not last as long as you think, and if you have had a past infection a while back with a variant that doesn’t circulate anymore, you have a risk for more severe disease.

Frederica Freyberg:

Ajay Sethi, thank you so much for joining us.

Ajay Sethi:

Thank you.