Zac Schultz:

Around the state, schools are facing the same choices as Lakeland Union and we’re joined now by State Superintendent of Schools Jill Underly. Thanks for your time today.

Jill Underly:

Absolutely. Nice to be here. Thank you.

Zac Schultz:

So what is your advice to schools when it comes to mandating masks in the classroom?

Jill Underly:

Well, I mean, I guess as well as any other kind of mitigation strategy, you know, masking is important for obvious reasons, right? It keeps the public safe. It keeps our kids safe. It keeps our schools open. So that would be my advice. If it’s mitigation strategy that keeps your schools open, then it needs to be taken under consideration.

Zac Schultz:

We’ve seen quite a few schools around the state that are doing a mask-optional approach. When it comes to what each school is doing, can we just look at the politics in that area to explain whether they’re mandating masks or is it not quite that simple?

Jill Underly:

I think a lot of it is politics, to be honest, and our schools are caught in the middle. When you have the CDC and scientists and medical experts recommending mitigation strategies that include masks, I believe we should be listening to that.

Zac Schultz:

Now, in the last year the Wisconsin Supreme Court has overturned a few sections of state law regarding what authority different state agencies have when it comes to dealing with the pandemic. In your capacity as state superintendent of schools, do you have the authority to mandate masks in classrooms?

Jill Underly:

No. As I’ve said before, whether it’s masks or other mitigation strategies, I mean, those are critical to fighting the pandemic and we need to keep our schools open and safe and I think that’s really what we need to be looking at.

Zac Schultz:

So this is simply a local issue? It’s not something the state should address?

Jill Underly:

Well, it’s really difficult for me to answer that question other than the fact that if we know it works and the deal is that we want to keep our schools open and safe, that’s something the local school boards should be looking at as a good mitigation strategy. And if it works, then that’s what they should be doing because our primary is to keep our kids safe and to keep our schools open so that all kids can learn. If that’s what the science indicates, that’s what we should be doing.

Zac Schultz:

In that line of thought, if the DPI was to issue an order or rule, could that then be overturned by Republicans on the Joint Committee of Review of Administrative Rules, the one that’s overturned some of the other proposed rules regarding masks and other mandates?

Jill Underly:

I don’t like to speculate on things like that, because I don’t know what would happen with that. I wouldn’t want to make a call like that on a public television show either way. I can’t speculate.

Zac Schultz:

If there are politics, local politics that are impacting the ability of district administrators to make choices about keeping kids safe, at what point is it incumbent on either you or the governor, someone else to take the heat politically and to give them cover by making that mandate broader instead of leaving them to the whims of local politics at their school board level?

Jill Underly:

I understand. School boards and school district administrators are caught in the middle of this. Our teachers and our kids are caught in the middle of something that should not be political. When you look at it on the surface, look at vaccines and you look at public health throughout the centuries, I mean we’ve had vaccines for 200 years and we know things work. That’s what’s really sad to me about the whole situation, is we’re talking about kids. We’re talking about lives. We’re talking about schools. And for something to become political, it’s just really unfortunate that non-educator adults are inserting themselves into a conversation and making something controversial when it shouldn’t be. It should be what do we need to do to keep our kids safe? What do we need to do keep our schools open? And when 500,000 kids are ineligible for a vaccine at this time, we need to do what it takes and that is to follow the science and that is to follow the medical advice. And we push out the information to our school districts to give them that backstop, if you will, so they can say, look, this is what the CDC recommends, this is what the federal government is recommending, you know, through IDEA, which is the special education law and this is what the DPI also recommends, too. And I don’t know what else we could potentially do because we are a local-controlled state other than give them the information and hope they make the best decisions.

Zac Schultz:

Speaking of local control, last night the Milwaukee School Board voted to mandate vaccines for all employees. Should this be the policy everywhere?

Jill Underly:

Well, I think, again, if it’s a strong mitigation strategy, we know vaccines are a strong mitigation strategy, and if that’s what the school board decides to do to mitigate COVID in their community, then that’s, you know, good for that school board to make that decision.

Zac Schultz:

Now, current law requires students to be immunized for polio, MMR, hepatitis B, varicella, others. Do you think eventually COVID will make that list of vaccines that are required for students entering public school?

Jill Underly:

If they can get a student vaccine, yes, I do. Obviously we know it’s highly communicable. We know that the older you are, if you’ve got underlying health conditions, that you will — you have a more likelihood to be hospitalized. And public safety is one of those things with public health we have to pay strict attention to, especially in settings like school where communicable diseases can spread easily.

Zac Schultz:

There’s an old adage about learning from other people’s mistakes as opposed to yours. Why are so many schools waiting for a COVID outbreak and quarantine before changing their mask mandates or some of their vaccine requirements? Why aren’t we seeing ahead to what’s happening as opposed to waiting until it happens in a lot of these school districts?

Jill Underly:

It’s really tough right now to be an educator. And it’s really tough to be a school board member. I think our political environment has something to do with that. I think there’s certainly a lot of pressure, a lot of peer pressure. Again, we’re talking about something that shouldn’t be political. We’re talking about public health. If we were talking about lead in our water, for example, or if we were talking about, you know, measles outbreak, I think people — again, why does this have to be political? Why do our schools have to be in the middle of this when all we want to do is make sure we can keep our schools open and keep our kids and keep our staff safe?

Zac Schultz:

Now, COVID caseloads are rising around the state. Is there any point at which you would consider recommending closing down schools statewide again or will it always be a case-by-case decision at this point?

Jill Underly:

Well, currently I know that public health county can close down schools when there’s a flu outbreak. As a school district administrator the past seven years, we came close one or two semesters where in one of my buildings we had to communicate regularly with our county health. I don’t see COVID being any different. I mean, certainly there’s some differences in how fast it can spread. Certainly there are some differences, you know. Flu is a lot more obvious I think in some places because COVID we know people can be asymptomatic. So it’s going to be very important that people get the vaccine, that they get the flu vaccine as well as the COVID vaccine if they’re eligible. But making sure that we can keep tabs on these cases, making sure that we have a regular testing is going to be very important.

Zac Schultz:

All right. Dr. Underly, thank you for your time today.

Jill Underly:

You bet. Thank you.