Here & Now

How "Color Brave" Dialogue Can Move U.S. Forward on Racism

Frederica Freyberg:

The debate over jobs in Wisconsin has taken place this week against a backdrop of racial unrest across the country. Specifically in Charlottesville at protests over confederate monuments, where neo-Nazi and other white supremacists groups caused violence resulting in the death of three people. President Trump’s “both sides to blame” response sparked national concern and sent many in his own party reeling in disbelief. In cities across the country, monuments came down, including in a Madison cemetery by order of Mayor Paul Soglin. Where can the American conversation on race go from here? For that we turn to someone who facilitates community conversations on race relations full-time. Tracey Robertson is the executive director of Fit Oshkosh. She’s in Green Bay tonight. Tracey, thanks very much for being here.

Tracey Robertson:

Thank you so much for having me again.

Frederica Freyberg:

First I want to ask you what this past week has been like for you?

Tracey Robertson:

You know, that’s a great question. And when I think about — in reflection about what this week has meant to me, it’s been a week like every other week I've had in America as a black person, black-identified person in this country. This is a typical week. Really emboldened racialized behavior is not unique to me.

Frederica Freyberg:

What's your reaction to President Trump’s remarks?

Tracey Robertson:

You know, I fully expect President Trump to be exactly who he told us he was going to be. He’s been very clear about who his political agenda is supposed to advantage and that certainly was not people of color, people who identify as Muslim, people who identify as LGBTQ. So I'm not as disappointed in him as I am in the people who voted for him.

Frederica Freyberg:

Have you be heartened or not by other people’s reaction to President Trump?

Tracey Robertson:

It's been very day-dependent. We had a vigil in Oshkosh for the victims at Charlottesville. And while we were there someone drove past and used the “n” word. And people at the vigil ran up and said how do you feel about that? I said, you know, I'm not surprised. You’re surprised. I’m not surprised. A lot of the engagement that I have on a day-to-day basis is people certainly inferring that I'm the “n” word, if not out rightly calling me that. Again, it’s just part of everyday life as a person of color in this country.

Frederica Freyberg:

So this week is like all other weeks. Does it make you sad then that suddenly this gets so much attention, when this is the daily life?

Tracey Robertson:

It doesn’t make me sad. It makes me hopeful. I think it, sadly, takes these kinds of national incidents to raise awareness for people who don’t identify as people of color. It’s not news to us. But it’s news to lots of other people. And it’s sad that people have to lose their lives and we have to see so much hatred and disdain in order for some people to move. But for many people that’s exactly what it takes. So I'm hopeful that we’ll be better because of this incident.

Frederica Freyberg:

The mission statement of your organization is this, quote, to promote social transformation through color-brave conversations, education, advocacy and research in order to achieve race equity and justice within your community. What are color-brave conversations?

Tracey Robertson:

Well, historically what we’ve been taught about race is to pretend like we’re color blind. That we don’t see race. When I show up in a room, I show up fully as a black woman. So people’s opportunity to pretend like they don’t see me really is a racialized narrative. What we’re asking people to do is flip that script and really think about race in a very analytical way. Do some analysis around it. An example I love to use is about– let’s say a grandmother is in a grocery store. A grandmother who identifies as a white American, as a white person, is in a grocery store. And the grandchild says to them, oh, look, grandma, that person is really dark. What being color blind has taught us to do is pretend like we don’t see that. So that would look like, shhh, please don’t talk about that. We don’t talk about that. It’s not polite to talk about that. Although that grandmother has not said to that child, I have a problem with people of color, what they’ve said is A) we should never talk about it. B) I don’t have enough information to even engage you in a discussion. So we teach those children that talking about race is a problem. And I just like to ask do we think that worked? It hasn’t. Being color blind is what’s gotten us here today. So what we ask people to do is be really color-brave, to think about race, to consider race, to study race, to learn about race. An example of a color-brave grandmother in that same scenario would be, yep, that person really is dark. What do you think that means about that person? Where do you think that person would have come from? What do you think life in that place where they’ve come from looks like? How does that — what does that mean for us as white-identified Americans in this country? So really doing some critical analysis around race. Thinking about it from an historical perspective, recognizing that our country has not been great for people of color and really having some deep, valuable discussions around that to move us to a place of change.

Frederica Freyberg:

Why do you think there might be the reluctance or the fear on the part of people to have these color-brave conversations?

Tracey Robertson:

I think it’s like anything. I think we just haven’t had the tools. I think it requires us to be really introspective and to acknowledge that the country has really done some damage and has created some trauma for people of color in this community. And that’s really hard to face. It’s really hard — as I continue to learn myself to see some of the pain and read about some of the pain that my ancestors experienced. It’s tough work. It’s easy to pretend like these issues don’t exist. It’s easy to go about your everyday experience and pretend like you don’t recognize all the things that are happening. It’s a lot easier to pretend like it doesn’t exist.

Frederica Freyberg:

As for the removal of statutes or monuments, what’s your reaction to that?

Tracey Robertson:

That's a great question. I think what we’re seeing, people are really — an analogy I like to use is if you continue to kick your animal, at some point your animal is going to bite back, right? It’s kind of the same idea. I think people are incredibly frustrated. I think that the United States of America has not apologized for the oppression of many of the communities. I think people are incredibly frustrated. I think that holding these people up as heroes is a mistake. It’s problematic. It goes on to reinjure people who are really experiencing trauma around the issues of race. So I understand why people are angry and feel like that this — taking down the statutes is part of our journey to healing, to making our country really a racially inclusive place. We can’t do that if we have statutes of people who have been, you know, emboldened in their oppression against people of color.

Frederica Freyberg:

With really just about a half a minute left, does what has happened in the last week in your belief set us back or move us forward?

Tracey Robertson:

I think with our current political administration it’s certainly going to be a battle to move, but I think it’s certainly empowered some people to recognize that it’s important we work together to be the change that we want to see.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Tracey Robertson from Green Bay, from Oshkosh out of Green Bay tonight. Thank you very much.

Tracey Robertson:

Thank you.