Here & Now

Anthony Chergosky on Pfaff, Van Orden and the 3rd District

Frederica Freyberg:

In the swing third congressional district in western Wisconsin, there have been no candidate debates and the Trump-endorsed candidate mostly doesn’t do interviews with the so-called “mainstream media.” In that race, Republican Derrick Van Orden has a big fundraising edge and a few polls that have been taken show him in the lead over Democrat Brad Pfaff. Is that race a done deal? We turn to Anthony Chergosky, a professor of political science at UW-La Crosse. Thanks for being here.

Anthony Chergosky:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

So is it a done deal in favor of Derrick Van Orden or could there be a surprise in this swingy district?

Anthony Chergosky:

There could always be surprises out here in western Wisconsin Frederica but I do think it is mostly a done deal. You look at the investment that the Democratic Party is making, and there is not much investment to speak of when you look at the third congressional district. The money talks. You look at how the parties are allocating their resources. And that tells you a lot about how the parties view this particular race here in western Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what do Brad Pfaff supporters think of that?

Anthony Chergosky:

I think they are very upset. I have talked with many of them. They think the party has abandoned Brad Pfaff. They think Brad Pfaff is being left to fend for himself. Certainly Democrats here have a very negative view of Derrick Van Orden, the Republican. But without the resources to make that case, they are going to have some problems. As you noted, Frederica, there are no debates, there are very few candidate interviews. This is a race that is relying on those 30-second television advertisements. So the candidates need the money to fund those advertisements. That is how they are presenting themselves to the voters.

Frederica Freyberg:

What is your reaction to the idea that there has been no debates, the town halls that they wanted to put on didn’t happen. What is your reaction to that kind of a campaign?

Anthony Chergosky:

Well, first of all, I would note it is an end of a very long tradition that we’ve had here in western Wisconsin. I’ve talked to people who have been around politics in La Crosse in a very long time. This is the first time they can ever remember there being no debate in this particular congressional seat. It’s a major disappointment. It also is a situation where the candidates are just relying on that paid media. And that makes me extremely worried, Frederica. It makes me extremely worried about the level of information the voters are going to have as they cast their vote. Voters relying on paid media, paid advertisements, as a political scientist, that makes me nervous. I would much rather there be debates, unscripted situations where you can really get to know the candidates in-depth. The voters just are not going to have that type of experience, that type of opportunity in this campaign.

Frederica Freyberg:

On the ground there, what issues does this race turn on that could bring people out to the polls?

Anthony Chergosky:

One of the striking aspects of this campaign has been the lack of discussion of the issues. For Brad Pfaff, the discussion has been about Derrick Van Orden’s presence in Washington, D.C. on January 6th. And also Brad Pfaff’s support for Roe versus Wade, going back to the situation under Roe versus Wade. Derrick Van Orden cast Brad Pfaff as a career politician. Someone who has always been in government and he contrasts himself with Brad Pfaff, Derrick Van Orden does, by talking about how he is a political outsider. So we haven’t had much discussion of the issues at all. It’s mostly about trying to create a persona through those highly polished, highly produced television commercials.

Frederica Freyberg:

Does it seem as though the January 6th tie with Derrick Van Orden is really resonating at all with voters because one recent headline said voters shrug off GOP candidates January 6th tie.

Anthony Chergosky:

I think Democrats here are frustrated they don’t have the resources to make that case against Derrick Van Orden. There has been some effort by Democrats here to emphasize how Derrick Van Orden was in Washington, D.C. on January 6th. Democrats have tried to raise questions and raise concerns about what exactly Derrick Van Orden was doing in D.C. on that day. But in a campaign that relies so much on paid advertisements, in a campaign where you don’t have unscripted moments, interviews, town halls, debates, you’ve got to rely on that paid advertisement and right now the Democrats do not have the resources to run a sustained campaign focusing on January 6th as they go against Derrick Van Orden.

Frederica Freyberg:

So you’ve made an interesting point that the third was kind of the last hope for Democrats outside their strongholds in Madison and Milwaukee. What kind of an example is this of a state divided between urban and rural?

Anthony Chergosky:

This is going to be a fantastic example of the urban/rural divide if this district does go Republican in November because then what will we have? If this district goes red, we will have a 6-2 split in the House delegation for Wisconsin. We’ll have six Republicans, two Democrats. We’ll have both Democrats representing the major urban areas, Gwen Moore in Milwaukee, Mark Pocan in Madison. A perfect example of how the state is so divided between urban and rural. Frederica, I think that is where we may be heading this November.

Frederica Freyberg:

Anthony Chergosky, thanks very much.

Anthony Chergosky:

Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

For more of our coverage on the race in the third congressional district, visit our website at PBSwisconsin.org and click on the news tab.