Grown Up Dad

Joe Gidjunis: When you envision a dad, who comes to mind?

A burly, strong figure?

A family protector?

A diligent worker?

Perhaps a God to pray to or is he the master of an epic dad joke?

Did anyone picture a man gently rocking his child to sleep or changing diapers, teaching bike rides and organizing play dates?

For generations, being a dad meant providing financially, putting food on the table and a roof overhead.

Yet this historical norm feels incomplete.

Today, if all I am is a provider, I wouldn't call myself a good dad.

When my wife was pregnant, everyone showered her with advice.

But as a new dad, all I heard was, "You'll figure it out.

Dads don't do a lot."

Growing up, my dad wasn't around much.

To me, they were drive-by parents missing the real family time.

When my son was born, I was surprised.

I didn't just like fatherhood, I loved it.

I found a joy I never experienced before.

Why weren't other dads telling me about the good parts?

Between important discussions on toxic masculinity and evolving gender roles, defining good fatherhood has never been more complex.

How do we blend strong and compassionate, and embrace the modern while acknowledging the contributions of the past?

I'm Joe Gidjunis and I'm trying to figure this out.

This is "Grown Up Dad."

Joe: The most accurate way I can explain the moment when a man becomes a father, it's as if your heart opens a new chamber you never knew existed.

You thought you understood what love meant, but not like this.

Joe: There's no magical place where everything-- Joe: You're suddenly questioning everything.

How am I in charge of another human being?

There's courage in loving a child, but love alone doesn't mean you're ready to parent.

I wanna become the father missing from my own childhood memories.

I wanna be the hard-working, yet playful and supportive dad to the challenges of kid life and I wanna be a good dad while not forgetting to be a good husband, a good friend, and good at my career.

I'm not alone.

Nationwide, there are over 28 million dads with kids under 18, and 9 out of 10 of us have jobs requiring us to balance career and home in a way that the generations before us never had to do.

To understand how we got here, let's look at how our grandfathers and fathers parented.

Back in 1965, working dads only spent about 2.5 hours a week raising kids.

Fifty years later, dads increased to 8 hours, but moms were still doing double, and at 8 hours a week, we were still watching more TV than spending time with our family.

The good news is that dads are progressing.

In a recent survey, 85% of fathers emphasize that parenting holds a paramount importance to their lives.

Joe: This is Vivian.

She's a professor at the University of Pennsylvania who specializes in families and she's a co-director of the Penn Early Childhood and Family Research Center.

Vivian Gadsden: Well, it's always important to study fathers, fathering, and families, in any period.

Fathers are an important part of many families.

They are present even when they're absent because we know that they exist, and they bring a certain perspective, worldview, and most modestly, another adult or another human being who can contribute meaningfully to the wellbeing of children.

Joe: What do you think the role of fathers have been, 100 years ago, generationally?

Then, you know, 50 years ago, today?

What do you think that looked like then?

Vivian Gadsden: Well, historically, fathers have been considered the breadwinners, at least in US and other Western nations.

And that dominated our view of who fathers could and should be.

If you think of all of the movies and all of the television shows from the 1950s and '60s, they were about fathers.

Joe: Do you think any of that has shifted in the last 30 years?

Or has there been even a little bit of change?

Vivian Gadsden: I think over time there has been change and part of that change is the result of more women in the workforce.

Joe: Women have plodded the worker ranks since World War II.

In 1940 only 28% of women were in the workforce.

By the year 2000, 60% of all women were working.

And for mothers with children under 18 years old, less than half were working in 1975.

By the year 2000, almost three-quarters of moms with kids under 18 were working.

Joe: Moms have been told that they ought to be moms first and then employees second.

By contrast, dads have been told that they should be providers.

If they show up even minimally for their kids, that's all that's even expected.

But this balancing act, it doesn't seem to be realistic for either parent anymore.

Parenting took on a national spotlight in the mid '80s and early '90s, on the federal level, and in particularly fathering became more centerstage.

Due to pressure from moms and women's groups in 1984, President Ronald Reagan signed the Child Support Enforcement Amendment.

And then in 1993, President Bill Clinton signed legislation that I couldn't believe didn't exist 3 decades ago: the Family and Medical Leave Act, granting parents and caregivers time off to care for family without losing their jobs.

Joe: While these laws are important, they didn't address the lack of knowledge about the changing role of dads.

Research around kids and families was still largely focused only on moms.

Theodore Ransaw: If you're watching fathers and mothers engage with their children, having two different parents engage with their children from slightly different perspectives makes a more complete child.

Joe: You got this?

Oh, we're switching?

Hey, that was ones, high ones.

I want high fives.

Theodore: I look at something called fathering involvement, and fathering involvement is engagement, accessibility, and responsibilities.

Fathers are accessible.

They're around their children.

You know, when they work, they work, but when they come home, "Hey, can I answer questions?

Can I help with homework?"

Hold them, do specific things.

[phone ringing] Theodore: That's my daughter, believe it or not.

Okay, I'll call you back later.

All right.

That's funny.

That's my daughter.

So where was I?

So fathers are engaged.

They pick up the phones when their kids call.

Joe: Tell me a little bit about what it was like when you first had Cohen, what you felt, did you feel you were prepared?

Jeremy Givens: I was just kind of like, I'm in a state of shock.

Like, what do I do?

Like, I don't know anything about being a dad.

I made a decision over the course of that 9 months that I was gonna do everything I could to make sure that I had reflected on myself and made myself the best man that I could possibly be before my son was born.

And I really had to ask myself tough questions.

Like, you're gonna really find out what you believe when you wanna--when you find out you're gonna be a dad.

And I feel like my son gave me that gift.

So like, I thank him all the time.

Like, you made me a better person from that, so.

Joe: Yeah, Gabe makes me better all the time.

I--it's stressful, but it makes me better all the time.

Jeremy: Hundred percent it is stressful, yes.

Joe: Did you ask anyone around you for help or, like, what do I do, when you found out you were gonna be a dad?

Jeremy: Oh yeah, I asked a lot of questions.

So I asked grandfathers, I asked new fathers, I asked dads that, you know, had kids in college.

Joe: Did you really feel like you got good advice?

Jeremy: Just make sure your kid, you know, is taken care of.

What does that mean?

Like, it's like, that's like, you know, you know, be there for your kid.

What does that mean?

You know, there was a lot of, like, generic things like, oh, you don't really have to worry about the loving or the caring thing.

Like, that's what Mom does.

You just gotta make sure that you have, you know, the money there, you know.

So that was stuff that I heard, but that was a motivation for me.

Joe: Did anyone tell you it would be full of joy, it would be--bring you happiness, would make you better?

Jeremy: No, actually, like if anything it wasn't necessarily that it was, it's a terrible thing.

It was like, oh, the Real World is about to kick in, right?

And like that's like this mountain that's coming for you and it's--it wasn't.

For me, it was wings.

Like, I felt like I was like, I could really fly now.

I think what we need to do is we need to redefine parenting.

What is really being a dad?

Is it really just providing?

Is it really just your kid has clothes or your kid has a--has a house?

Joe: I really struggle with understanding my own guilt, honestly.

I'm like, if I give a lot of time to my son right now, am I taking away from my wife?

If I give it to my wife, am I not giving it to my job?

If I give it to my job, am I not giving it to my family?

Jeremy: Starts--I mean, I always give myself, like, small wins.

I write down, I'll even take, like, a sticky note and be, like, "Play video games and talk to Cohen today about this."

Take those small wins and don't hold yourself to, like, having this pressure of being "Leave it to Beaver," like the "Brady Bunch," perfectly like every single day.

Joe: Thank you, Jeremy.

Cheers.

Jeremy: Cheers, man.

Joe: To your family.

Jeremy: Appreciate you.

Cheers to you.

Beth Humberd: I think fathers don't want to just see themselves as breadwinners or providers, that they wanna also be involved in taking care of their children, coaching sports.

Joe: This is Beth and this is Jamie.

Both are business school professors who are co-authors with expertise in organizational management and fathers in the workforce.

Jamie Ladge: This image of fatherhood has shifted pretty dramatically.

You know, we see footage of the 1950s where the father came home from work and the mother was in the kitchen and the kids were playing in the yard.

Joe: So what do you think men are trying to really split?

Jamie: So, among couples, there's also a negotiation that's happening, you know, who's going to be responsible for the pick-ups and drop-offs, whose job hours are more flexible.

And I think the workplace is catching up to understanding there's a need for mothers and fathers to have greater flexibility in the workforce.

And I think also a lot of fathers, they're advocating for themselves.

Joe: Are you saying you think that the problem is going to solve itself, that over time, more dads are going to go in this direction or do you think that employees and employers have to have these conversations?

Jamie: Well, I think there really is a tension between, you know, wanting to be this ideal worker and also wanting to be an involved father.

Joe: COVID is what forced the biggest reality check, as parents were forced into the ninja warrior gauntlet of constant caregiving.

Orlando Rios: When COVID came about, it was more like I have to shelter this guy from everyone.

I don't know who's sick, who's not sick, like, what's going on.

But it turned into just like us and just us with the baby.

That was definitely a struggle.

Joe: Father stepped up in the COVID era and now that we're past the worst, we're back at work and not at home.

Beth: One of our research studies found that the more involved a father is in caregiving at home each week, the more satisfied they are with their job.

Joe: In their survey, dad spent 2.6 hours per workday with their children.

However, the higher time spent, the greater these men reported job satisfaction.

So you might see a father spending 1.5 hours with their children likely to report being less satisfied with their job than a father who spends more time.

Adam Woods: Being gay, you don't be a dad by accident, you have to work pretty hard to make it happen.

When I was a childless entrepreneur, I worked 70, 75 hours a week.

When I had a baby, she was the new CEO, and she was in charge and she was calling the shots, and I went from working 70 hours a week to not even close to 40 hours a week.

I also was probably more effective in the 25 hours a week when I was at work than I had been in the 70 hours a week.

Joe: Company policies that are highly rated by working dads ease workload pressures.

Comprehensive paid parental leave, flexible return to office protocols, enhanced child care reimbursements, and training managers to allow for smooth transitions earned the highest mark.

The unfortunate reality is how many men don't have the opportunity to spend this extra time with family.

They don't have supportive bosses nor company policies or flexibility for parental duties.

And worse, many dads think they'll be punished for even asking to take any time.

Jamie: I remember being at pick-up one day, and I see all these men and I was listening to what they were saying and they were talking about someone that they knew who was on paternity leave, and they were almost making fun of the person.

You know, "Wow, this paternity leave is really long.

When's he coming back to work?"

And so it struck me that yes, it's important to be an involved dad, but don't take it too far.

Joe: I feel like it's expected for mothers to maybe take the full 12 weeks that's allowed under the FMLA.

But fathers should be, like, taking a couple of days and if they take more than that, then it's like, "Why aren't you back already?"

Beth: We are seeing an improvement in organizations trying to offer more flexibility for men and women, parental leave that men and women can take.

But we see a contradiction between what's formally offered at these organizations and informally what's expected.

Joe: I like bringing up my senior producer, Josh.

He was in a job that told him he would get paternity leave.

And then right before he was about to take it, they're like, "Actually we need you in the office now and I can't give it to you."

Jamie: The problem we have in this contradiction in organizations is there's such fine-grained societal expectations about what it means to be a mom and what it means to be a dad, even though when we're trying to expand that pie, so that everybody is sort of sharing in those responsibilities, it seems to still kind of fall back on old times.

Joe: This historical perspective helped me see, I wasn't alone.

Yet, my challenge remained.

I was a dad who lacked a clear image of a good father.

So where could I find a daily depiction of a dad?

The TV.

My upbringing featured Al Bundy and Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor.

Whenever I needed a dad, I could call on them.

But when I became a dad myself, I realized they were lovable yet bumbling, not men to rely on.

Then unexpectedly, my TV perspective shifted.

An Australian cartoon debuted, which introduced a fresh kind of dad named Bandit.

He's a regular bloke on the hit series, "Bluey," and he's a genuine father with his daughters, juggling work and family with humor and humility.

And somehow, an animated dog is redefining fatherhood because Bandit is the most authentic dad I've ever seen.

I'm not alone.

"Bluey's" changing the world.

It's a global hit, being described as the Bible for modern parenting, and fathers identify so closely, massive fan support groups have formed online to ask, "What would Bandit do?"

How did an Australian cartoon family of dogs capture hearts and minds around the world?

It might boil down to the prioritization of family.

"US News and World Report" ranks nations for family friendliness, and Australia earned the top spot.

Meanwhile, the US scored only half as well, ranking 22, sandwiched between Luxembourg and Croatia.

I had to understand how a cartoon family from Brisbane could redefine an entire TV genre and change people's lives by telling stories in 7-minute episodes.

It was time to get on a plane and I headed down under.

I'm tellin' you all I know are you hearin' me?

It's comin' through.

Joe: We're here in Brisbane.

This is my first coffee.

I just asked for an iced coffee and they were, like, "Ice with cream?"

And I'm like, yeah, like I thought there'd be, like, half and half in my iced coffee.

This is what I got, this concoction.

For my first stop, I headed to the home of a journalist who has written multiple stories about my new favorite show.

Dan is a digital reporter with ABC Australia, the same network that airs "Bluey."

He describes himself as a Bandit because he has two daughters nearly identical in age to Bluey and her sister, Bingo.

Dan Colasimone: "Bluey" is, yeah, endemic.

It's everywhere.

You can chat to any parents about "Bluey" 'cause they, everybody watches it.

It's not about princesses or you know, like, robots, it's just kids playing, adults, you know, parents and kids interacting.

That's why it's so fun to watch, 'cause you see situations that you've been through.

You see kids reacting in ways that, you know, that real kids react.

Joe: And so, is fatherhood, you think, evolving and why does it have to?

Dan: I think it is and it's because society is evolving, like we should be aware now that we can't just expect the, you know, 50-year-old stereotype to continue.

There's no real excuse not to participate on that level.

Like, we're aware of how beneficial it is for kids if their dad is just as involved as the mum.

So, the responsibility is on us now.

We're aware of, you know, the consequences if you just step back and say, "No, it's on Mum."

Joe: Is Bandit a role model for yourself?

Dan: Yeah, he is.

I just think the way he participates in so many of the games and he uses his imagination as well, and that's what brings a lot of the humor to it, I think.

And that's part of being a role model as well, I think, is I want my girls to see that I am just as capable of doing things around the house.

And I hope that they see the way I treat my wife and I hope that's the way they expect to be treated when they're adults.

Joe: I was introduced to Dan after reading one of his articles where he tried to act like Bandit for 24 hours, totally immersing himself in every request his girls asked.

Dan: Bandit just says yes to everything, and he's on his way to work, the kids wanna play with him, he just drops what he's doing and plays with the kids and, like, you kind of feel a little inadequate when you're watching it 'cause you think, "I can't do it.

You know, I try and play with my kids, but if I've got to go to work, I gotta go to work."

Joe: What kind of--what motivated you to take on this interesting idea?

Dan: Basically, the point was to prove that no human dad or parent can live up to what Bandit's doing.

It was to say, don't feel guilty that you're not, you know, living up to Bandit's standards, but view Bandit as something, you know, you wanna aspire to.

Joe: So, why is your dad a good dad?

child 1: I like him and he plays with me.

Joe: That is awesome, right?

I love--you said it all, right there.

High five?

Joe: What makes a good dad?

child 2: He lets us play with his face.

It's a--it's an enormous challenge, it's a life-defining challenge.

It's not an uncool role.

It's an extremely cool role.

So we wanted to celebrate fatherhood.

Support fathers in the process by providing useful resources and celebrate the awesome, unreal role that it is being a dad.

It's actually the Champions League of Manhood, to use a football analogy, where we have this extraordinary opportunity to live life in a full palate.

So we don't have to just be the breadwinner, we don't have to just be the disciplinarian that just one generation ago, dads were pretty much confined.

Joe: That was their job description.

Jeremy Macvean: In fatherhood, we can get down on the floor and be with our kids and cry and dance and sing and be silly.

We think Father Hood's the leading force in that change.

It's a great opportunity to reflect on what kind of men do we want to bring to the world.

What kind of role models do we wanna be for our kids and the kids around us.

As a result of being a father, I now coach my daughter's netball team.

Well, every time I'm coaching these nine girls, I'm representing masculinity for them through being a father and a, I guess, some sort of father figure or a role model for this group of children.

It is definitely the best time in history to be a dad because we can be the men that we wanna be today.

But I get the opportunity to be that role model.

My dad didn't get the same opportunity.

child 2: And you need to--and you need to get rid of that thing.

Jeremy MacVean: I thought you liked my beard.

child 2: I don't like it because when you're giving us cuddles it scratches my face.

Joe: Chatting with Jeremy in Melbourne felt like finding a kindred spirit.

I love his passion to celebrate fathers, but I still needed to reflect on my own hang-ups blocking me from understanding my role as a dad.

I headed to see Justin.

He's a psychologist and co-host of the Australian show "Parental Guidance."

He runs an Australian Happy Families website and is the father of six girls.

Justin Coulson: When I run seminars and say to people describe what it is to be feminine, give me a definition of femininity.

People do it pretty quickly and pretty easily.

I say, "So, define masculinity."

I'm met with blank faces.

It's like, "Wow, we're really struggling with this."

I got a question for you, Joe, who wrote the rules?

Who said that's the rule of what it is to be masculine?

Why do we buy into this?

Joe: If we live intentionally, if we know who we are, what I really think is going on here, it's a question of identity.

I think that the definition of what masculinity is, it really feels to be changing, at least for where I come from, the idea of masculinity and being both a good parent and a man, you know, they don't overlap.

I don't understand why.

Because to me, a man who feels like they should be strong and courageous or brave, like, the challenge of being a dad accomplishes all of those things.

Justin: Fatherhood's evolving because masculinity is evolving and because society's evolving.

We have the traditional breadwinner model of fatherhood becoming less relevant.

We're seeing shifts in the way relationships work, the way families are built, the structure of families as well as the function of families.

And so a lot of dads are saying, "Well, what's my role here now?"

The reality is that a father fits exactly where he always has, in terms of being indispensable to the lives of his loved ones.

We've just got to be there in positive ways.

Joe: Thank you so much for your time.

Justin: Great talking to you.

Joe: I really appreciate it.

Justin: Great talking to you.

Joe: Your kids, your family, they're beautiful.

You're very lucky.

Justin: I think I am.

Joe: Growing up, I never saw the importance of a dad within a family and I wouldn't have considered one, as Justin said, indispensable.

Yet, witnessing Bandit's competent fathering on screen, fictional as it may be, the show has made me reconsider my entire role.

Dads need strength but neglecting qualities like compassion, care, and sacrifice, which are often attributed to moms would limit me from fully supporting my own son.

Joe: I won't settle for being a partial parent.

I know I can do this.

If Bandit's prowess can inspire me, I bet he'll motivate other dads too.

He isn't flawless.

He's active and present for 7 minutes, recognizing he can make a big impact in a short sprint.

Imagine if we dads could commit to just 7 more minutes a day of intentional parenting.

What can I do better with my son?

Can we be better dads 7 minutes at a time?

This is the best time in history to be a dad.

Yeah, it's harder than ever.

But we are lucky.

We get to be the first generation who decides what a dad can really accomplish.

We should be swapping stories and tips like they're fantasy sports stats and stock picks.

How do essential and blue collar workers find the ways to be great parents when they don't have the same flexibility?

Does fatherhood vary between the northwest and the southeast?

Do two-father families navigate these decisions differently?

Why are some men challenging convention to become stay-at-home dads?

With more than a billion fathers on this planet, we can't stop there.

If one Australian show proves fatherhood can be better in 7 minutes, there has to be more we can gather from across the globe.

What sets Scandinavian countries apart as excellent places to raise children?

What are the parenting norms in the Americas versus Africa?

And in what ways do fathers differ?

And where are we the same?

This is our path.

Let's discover the best ideas, overcome our hang-ups, and deliver a few dad jokes in the process.

We can learn from all races and ethnicities, all cultures and communities.

I won't let my history repeat itself without a fight.

I'm gonna figure this out for my own son because I know it's what a good dad would do.

Better dads, better world.

Welcome to "Grown Up Dad."

Joe: This is my first meat pie in Australia.

This is a chunky steak.

Oh yeah.

Oh, I get the appeal.

That's really good.

Joe: And honestly, in these last few days, I definitely have had a transformation.

Five days ago if you had asked me how I would look and feel would have been very different.

But now I'm a different man.