Fit 2 Stitch

Peggy Sagers: Traveling the world for over 40 years, Enzo Mazzurco has witnessed the evolution of fashion firsthand.

From the elegance of Hanae Mori to the accessibility of JCPenney from the grandeur of Paris couture to the practicality of Chicago sportswear, Enzo's journey spans the full spectrum of style.

Enzo will guide us through what truly matters in our sewing process and why it matters.

Join me today as we embark on this extraordinary fashion journey with a true industry legend.

announcer: "Fit 2 Stitch" is made possible by Kai Scissors, Reliable Corporation, Bennos Buttons, Plano Sewing Center, Elliott Berman Textiles, and WAWAK Sewing Supplies.

Peggy: When I was younger, shopping with my dad, I couldn't help but notice something curious.

Shoes, handbags, clothing, luggage, almost everything seemed to have more value if it came from a European country.

What were they doing that we weren't?

Over time, I found the answers.

The influence of European fashion on the world, not just the US, is both deep and lasting.

From textiles to leathers to education to craftsmanship, the European tradition is rooted in centuries of excellence.

It's a culture that values quality, detail, and timeless design.

In this series, we'll explore those European influences and discover how we can incorporate their principles into our personal sewing.

So, if you're ready, we begin today with a bit of fashion history told firsthand by a true industry legend, Enzo Mazzurco.

I am really thrilled to have him because he is from Italy, and he has actually traveled this journey.

Enzo Mazzurco: Hi, how are you?

Peggy: Over 40 years-- Enzo: How's it going?

Peggy: --that you have done this.

Enzo: It's been a pleasure to be in this industry.

I think, you know, the best part of my journey has been, like, you know, I started with somebody that I didn't even know who she was, and it turned out to be, at the end, that she was a legend.

Peggy: So let's go here.

Let's go first.

This is Hanae Mori.

You're talking about Hanae Mori.

Enzo: When I was 22, I was in New York, and my first job was with Hanae Mori.

I didn't know who she was.

Peggy: Your very first job was with Hanae Mori.

Now, you didn't even realize how good that was.

Enzo: I did not know who she was.

The only thing, I got a job.

Peggy: That's jaw-dropping.

Enzo: And I felt like, okay, this is what I'd like to do, in a way.

And, you know, learning from her was the best things I ever did because, you know, in the three season and four season that, as you're going through every season, you learn more from a designer, in a way.

She was all about fabric, detail, and make sure that the women looks very sexy.

So the idea of being free was the biggest things.

And I know Hanae Mori did everything from the fabric to the styling, and the styling is all about-- you know, just think about it: She was the first woman to break through the fashion industry, first Asian designer break through Paris.

So she was, like, a big legend at that point, and I was young, did not know.

Oh my gosh, I'd actually worked for somebody that I learned so much out of it.

Peggy: So I wanna talk about that environment, what that environment was like, working for her.

What specifically did you do there--at there?

Enzo: So as a new person, 22 years old, you know, school, and I got the job to be, you know, the sample room coordinator, in a way.

So I'd be able to really actually look at the fabric, you know, working and try to figure it out-- what everyone else was trying to do.

And, to me, it was like, you know, oh my gosh, this is just very interesting because, you know, we always know fashion is something big, you know, especially where I come from, right, fashion for me because I grew up in a fashion family, in a way.

My mama had a little shop in the house, and you know.

Peggy: In Italy.

Enzo: So, yes, when we moved to U.S., and so to me was like, you know, okay, I love fashion.

And because I'm from Italy and I saw the fabric, and every fabric that she was using from Italy-- all the silk, all the chiffon, all the organdy, all the--everything that she was using was everything done from Italy, believe it or not.

Peggy: So this was-- this is the silk.

Enzo: Yes, that's the silk chiffon.

Peggy: And completely done in Italy, from Italian silk?

Enzo: Yes, yes, and the print, everything was designed, of course, with the driving of her ideal, and everything that you put it up there, you know, from style and point of view, whatever she wanted for the fashion show or for the season, for example.

Everything was supposed to be done, driven by her direction.

Peggy: So when you were working behind the scenes, was there ever "Okay, Enzo, you've gotta get this done, and you've gotta get it done for $10?"

Enzo: That was not the case.

The case of Hanae was whatever we do is created the way she had the vision.

That was no problem at all.

Peggy: So it was really more vision than money.

Enzo: That's correct.

We had a deadline, yes.

The deadline was that we have a fashion show, you know, in six months.

We have a fashion show in nine months.

That, we have to respect because, at the end of the day, we have to make sure that, you know, the market will be open for us.

But we never, never talk about fabric, price, or anything like this.

That was the most important thing is because, for her, it was, like, you know, "Is this what I want to be?"

And that's how she was really actually-- I mean, when you look at this print, this has been for many years, and look at the color.

Everything is speak to yourself right now.

Peggy: And what time frame is this, about, do you know?

Enzo: I probably think this is between the late '60s, early '70s because you can see they're, you know, two pieces, in a way.

You have a sun dress on the bottom and then the flyaway, which was-- the flyaway was one of the biggest things, which was traditional for the butterfly, which, in the next dress, we'll be able to talk about it and the print too.

Peggy: And we can go over and look at this too.

Enzo: So when I'm looking at this, this is really what she wanted to really represent.

The butterfly was a signature.

Hanae Mori was a signature that was a butterfly.

Peggy: So somewhere the concept of the butterfly was in everything, the freedom-- Enzo: One way or the other, between the style and the print, that's how she went through.

Peggy: But it sounds like, to me, that it was even in the culture of your working.

She gave a lot of freedom to-- Enzo: That's correct because, at the end of the day, she always wanna make sure that what--you know, she would give you the foundation, which is the biggest thing.

Almost everyone that I work in my life, we always have direction.

You know, we know all we have to follow something because you cannot just say, "Okay, this season we're gonna do this."

No, we all we have to make sure, and this was a period of time when everyone was to make sure that they were different.

And that was the beauty of the time, which today fashion is not the same as it was before because what's happening is that everyone's trying to pretend it to be something, but this was not pretended.

This was real stuff.

Peggy: So these butterflies now, they were all drawn by some artist in the company.

Enzo: Not in the company.

The print all the way came from Italy, you know, in Como, which is, you know, the area with all the silks.

They're done in a way-- the best printer.

If you look at this, you know, and the other things that it's really important about visually about this-- the layering--that she always put it on the dress.

So you have a two layer of the same print, so you'll be able to see, like, a motion of the butterfly.

You can tell right over here-- Peggy: Because there's some underneath the layer.

Enzo: That's correct.

That's one thing that she always wanted to make sure.

And, you know, when we had the fashion show, you know, she always told the model, "Twirl, " you know, "go around, and make sure that you'll be able to really actually--" it's like, you know, it was a fashion show.

It's just a--not just a sad fashion show, but like, you know, really a playful fashion show.

Peggy: At that time, I know you were in the sample room and behind the scenes a little bit, but did you know end cost of what these garments were?

Enzo: Pretty much.

I would not really--I've never thought about that part because, at the end of the day, that was not my job.

I never thought about that part 'cause that's not my job.

But at the end of the day, pretty much we knew a garment like this, you know, was $20,000 and more, depends on how much fabric and how much work was put into it.

Peggy: And I can see that the layers here, there are different colors, even.

Enzo: Just all the time, detail, detail, detail.

Any dress has to have something that really actually make it the beauty of what's--what is-- what's different this time?

What's different from this season to season?

And there was a season that the shocking pink was gonna be big.

The next season it's gonna be gold.

The next season is gonna be silver.

But there always something in there that is really actually represented something.

Peggy: So how many years did you work for Hanae Mori?

Enzo: I'd probably say, like, three years, yes.

Peggy: So can I get personal and say what made you decide to go a different direction?

Enzo: So the thing was this: As you are in the industry, right, and you wanna learn more and I was, like-- like I said, I was very young.

So at that time, it was, you know, to me, it was, like what's my next things, right?

And my friends, believe it or not, they already knew me in New York.

They told me that Alex Julian was looking for somebody with the job that I was doing right there, and the person who was hiring me was a Swedish-- Gunn Johansson.

She actually hired me because she always wanted to live in Italy, and she said, "Oh, I can actually try to learn to speak Italian with you."

Peggy: So she can go to Italy now with you.

Enzo: And she did, and now she lives in Italy now because that's what I was a dream, in a way, and that's what I got, you know, to change a job.

From Hanae Mori then I went to Alex Julian.

Peggy: Okay, let's talk a little bit about this.

Now, Alex Julian was located where?

Enzo: In New York.

Peggy: You're still in New York.

Enzo: 8th Street and 40 Street.

Peggy: Three years, so you're 25, you're young.

Enzo: Very young.

Peggy: You're still very young.

Enzo: And you know, what I-- Peggy: But your mom's in Italy.

Enzo: Yes.

Peggy: And she's wanting you to come home.

Enzo: Well, no, not really, because, you know, I already knew--she knew what I was doing anyway, so that's--she want me to be there at this point.

She want me to be part of that-- this industry.

Peggy: That's a pretty supportive mother.

Enzo: Oh, definitely, I could not complain, and my-- I have a very supportive family.

Whatever I've done in my life has been because of them.

And I feel, like, you know, very lucky 'cause not a lot of people can say that.

Peggy: I agree with that.

I agree.

Enzo: So when I went to Alex Julian, you know, yes, I learned color and print, but the most lesson that I learned from Alexander Julian, doing and working with him, was color.

He was the master of being able to blend color and make a new color.

So our idea there was because I started the first collection in women's, in a way.

And, again, I was a coordinator, so for me, the most important thing was to make sure that-- but I had the opportunity to be able to see all the fabric that comes in and what are we using for?

So, again, was all about the best of the best.

Alex never used anything that was graded-down for wool, silk, any--linen, anything that you mentioned as a very good fabric so-- Peggy: That's such an amazing place to be.

Enzo: I was a sponge at that time because, you know, to me, that's how I learned how to coordinate in color and how to make sure-- you know, every season, you know, you have to have something that really actually makes something different.

So this season was all about rustic, and that's what you take, and you take all the color to rustic.

But if you go by the water sign, then you go all water sign, and then you can just make, you know, different.

For instance, you know, you have a sunrise, you have a sunset.

All those things really actually become very close to you, in a way?

And so how you build in your collection is all about creating the mood with color, and then just prefabricate it with color, the fabrication that you're gonna use for your collection.

So Alex, to me, was a big, big teacher.

Peggy: So talk to me about what this is.

Enzo: So this turned out to be one of the best fabric because we did it for men's and women's.

And in women's, it turned out to be that we did the kick skirts, which was a pleated skirts, in a way, in the front, very shapely, and was very long with a long slit in the back and was like a very slim silhouette, and then we had a flyaway jacket, which was the kimono.

I don't know if you remember, there was like, you know, in the '90s.

I remember this one here had a pair jacquard camisole.

It was beautiful.

I mean, things are the real-- again, everything that you're doing, I know, when you look at this fabric, it's silk, but look at this: It's just bouncing back.

It's the best of the best fabric.

Peggy: It is, it is interesting because I've never really realized there was layers of quality of silk.

Enzo: See, the thing-- well, people thinks, I know, when it's silk, it really always rumple up like linen, but if you have a good quality, it doesn't, why?

Because it's weaved in the right way, and when you weave in the fabric the right way you actually can go ahead without even pressing it.

That's the beauty.

Peggy: So you decided to leave this.

Enzo: So at one point-- Peggy: This was great, and you loved it.

Enzo: I do love it, believe it or not.

Peggy: But you change, and you want something different.

This is what I love about you.

Enzo: The thing was that Gunn-- which was my director at that point, right?-- she decided to move, and she said, "I'm going to move to California.

Would you mind coming with me?"

because, you know, we were a good combination, in a way, and I love to work with her, and she liked to work with me, so what she asked me to do is she said one afternoon, you know, as I was working, she called me, she goes, "Can you come and meet me?

You know, this is the address, you know, and I want you to meet somebody," right?

So I went to meet Gunn, right?

And that time, she introduced me to Susie Tompkins.

Susie Tompkins was the creative director and the owner of Esprit.

Again, did not know who she was.

I was very pure.

I was very pure.

I didn't know who she was.

Peggy: It's okay.

I love all this.

Enzo: She just asked me a couple questions.

She goes to me, "Can I show you something?"

And she showed me a couple jacket.

And I went like, you know, "Ooh, what's going on in here," right?

And she looked at me and she goes-- Peggy: Especially coming from this couture.

Enzo: She looked at me, and she goes to me, "What is wrong?"

And I said, "Ooh, the button, they're awful," and she'd go-- she looked at me, and she goes to me, "You have a job," and I look at her and I said, "What are you talking about?"

And she goes to me, "I'm gonna offer you a job.

I'm doing a line that is gonna open up for the American market, but we wanted to do--" because Esprit was already in Europe, in Germany, right?

But they want to open up something here because they added the sportswear for junior, and they wanted to do something more elegant, they said.

"So I have a job for you.

You can leave tomorrow morning, and you can go to Milan.

That is a place right for you, blah, blah, blah," and I'm like, you know, "Okay..." So Gunn looked at me.

She goes to me... "Take it because you're gonna work with me."

Peggy: Well, Esprit was really the beginning of all the sportswear.

At that time, it was going from all these dresses and everything to all the separates in sportswear.

Enzo: That's what they did.

Because what happened was she started with a dress, and then she wanted a built-in sportswear, and she didn't know what to do with it, and they started to do-- Peggy: She did need you.

I agree.

Enzo: That was really funny because it was so funny for me.

It was like, you know, "Okay," so the next things, I am in the plane.

I went to Milan and worked in Milan.

Peggy: And your mother's thrilled.

Enzo: Ha ha ha, so the thing was like, you know, it just, you know, it happened over and over and over.

You know, nothing that you can really actually stop, in a way.

And so I learned so much because I was with them.

I started in Italy.

Then they brought me in Hong Kong because, in Hong Kong office, they need somebody that was really actually an eye to be able to really actually create the collection because, at the end of every three months, we used to have a market.

That was a totally different time, but the thing was this: We prepared the sample.

Again, exactly the same thing.

We have a pattern-making.

We have a fabric people, I mean, we always did things, you know, in--gradually.

We are not like, you know, from here you just have a garment.

We went gradually.

Peggy: Talk to me.

What came next?

'Cause I could talk to you all day, but we do have to limit this time, and I'm telling you: I wanna get to this end.

Enzo: Yes, no, the next thing was I got a new opportunity, and I went to Seattle.

The next company that went through my way was Eddie Bauer.

So they want to create a new collection for women, and they wanted to update, in a way.

So the person who hired me, Beverly House, she heard about me from other people, and she said, "Oh, you probably be the one to be able to drive, you know, whatever you want to."

So I was hired by them, and we started inventing stuff, in a way, because, you know, it's the right place-- Eddie Bauer.

Peggy: Eddie Bauer at that time didn't have all of this.

They didn't have zip-out line.

This is what you created.

Enzo: That's what we be able to really create it as an--it's so good with the team that we have.

It was so strong to be able to do "What do we do next?

What would people want to have it?"

So people, when they put it on, it's not like, you know, that they have on 100 pounds.

They don't go into Alaska.

Peggy: Yeah, I can see where this would be a lot of challenges.

Enzo: But this is just like, you know, really light, that you'll be able to really actually remove this, and you will have a vest and--or you will have another light jacket, in a way.

Peggy: And it's fascinating-- because as many times as I've used this jacket and worn this jacket, taken apart this jacket, put it back on, I've never thought about who created the idea.

Enzo: See, that's the thing.

It's what-- Peggy: It was you.

Enzo: Somebody really actually came to the point to be able to create something like this, and that's a reality-- that you'll be able to really actually unzip and unzip.

Peggy: I don't wanna run out of time, 'cause I want this story, because then you left Eddie Bauer.

Enzo: I wanted to do 100% kids' because I love playful garment, and I love idea to make sure, like, you know, that it's all the way good.

Peggy: So from Hanae Mori to a department store, large department store, where there was no cost ever mentioned-- so you were in charge of the whole kids' department for the whole entire corporation.

$50 million a year, sales.

Enzo: That was my job to be able to really actually-- Peggy: But what I wanna realize, every step of that way, to me, as I listen to you, it didn't matter to you.

Your performance stayed the same.

Your job was to do the best you could with the resources you had.

Enzo: That's correct.

You have to have passion to do what you do.

Peggy: At Hanae Mori, where never price was mentioned, now all of a sudden, you had to create a pair of jeans, and you had to do it for...$12.

Enzo: That's correct.

The only thing--the idea was to be able to really actually-- so, number one, never give up on what your expectation is.

Your expectation is, all the time, that you give the customer the best of the best.

So fabric is always the best thing.

Peggy: So you felt like you were still doing this in your journey, all along the way.

Enzo: It is all about the creative in my own world, and then--this is what I love to do it, and what--my thing was, okay, so we have a mom that has three kids.

So she wanted to buy jeans for all the kids.

She wanted to buy a t-shirt for all the kids.

So how's she gonna do it?

She has a budget.

So out to that budget, what are you doing?

So we always have to make sure that we started with the fabric, we wanna make sure that the fabric is durable and the fabric is the right fabric 'cause you need to do a treatment-- like, in anything that you have to do, you know-- a wash, a finish, and everything-- you have to make sure that goes into the costing.

So the idea is if you come up with a beautiful and incredible pair of jeans, you have everything done.

Peggy: But you sourced-- you worked your tail off to source those and get them down to the price.

Enzo: We were, every six months, on the plane just to go to the Far East to be able to work with--directly with a factory, directly with the factory, and make sure that we'll be able to get what we wanted to get visually and actually because all through the test that we have to go through to make sure that it's durability, that it doesn't break, all these things, visually, and durable, needed to be part of this.

Peggy: Do you think this experience made you more committed to creating a better product at the end here, even though the price point had changed?

Enzo: It made me very responsible.

Peggy: Because I think that's what the message is to home sewers--is it doesn't matter your budget.

It really doesn't.

It just matters that you put in the character to get the best you can at the level you're at.

Enzo: It made me very responsible because, that time, I was young.

I didn't care, didn't care so much, but when I got to this point, right, I have to think about, you know, a family with a mom with the kids.

What are you gonna do about it?

You have to make sure that you have it for everyone.

Peggy: And you can relate to your own family.

Enzo: That is correct.

I have three sister, and they have their own kids.

So I will actually want to make sure that they're dressed up the way they should dress up, but that should have, like, you know, something that is quality.

Peggy: I just love how listening to your stories-- they are so personal for you.

I can tell that every step you took had so much meaning to you, and yet you literally watched the whole system change completely, but you were a part of every step.

It's just amazing.

Enzo: In many years it's just-- Peggy: And you're not done.

Enzo: No, I'm not done.

I don't think--you know, life is not done until you really actually give up into it.

So the reality of the fact is this is part of our life.

Fashion is part of our life.

So let's not give up so easily because, at the end of the day, you know, I love to be able to talk to new generation of designers to tell them, "You have a chance, but you have to stick with your gun."

Peggy: And you're off to Italy in a couple weeks to continue the next journey.

Enzo: I can't wait.

Peggy: Thank you so much for being here.

Enzo: Thank you very much.

Peggy: Really appreciate it.

Thank you, Enzo.

Next time on "Fit 2 Stitch," we'll welcome a special guest who has designed shoes for some of the biggest names in fashion.

With her work rooted in Florence, Italy, and the surrounding regions, she'll reveal what makes European shoes truly exceptional and why their craftsmanship continues to set the global standards.

You won't wanna miss it.

Join us for this step into the world of luxury footwear with Diana Broussard.

announcer: "Fit 2 Stitch" is made possible by Kai Scissors, Reliable Corporation, Bennos Buttons, Plano Sewing Center, Elliott Berman Textiles, and WAWAK Sewing Supplies.

announcer: To order a four-DVD set of "Fit 2 Stitch Series 14," please visit our website at fit2stitch.com.