To Dine For with Kate Sullivan

KATE SULLIVAN: It is a gorgeous day in Santa Monica.

The perfect spot to meet a self-made millionaire with a flair for fashion and striking deals.

EMMA GREDE: [crosstalk] Hi!

So nice to meet you.

KATE: Oh, lovely to meet you.

EMMA: It's so lovely to meet you.

How are you?

KATE: I'm excellent.

How are you?

EMMA: I'm great.

I'm hungry.

KATE: Me too.

Today, Emma Grede shares her hunger for success forged in a gritty east London neighborhood, and how a paper route, at the age of 12, was just the beginning of a soaring career.

EMMA: Ambition has to make really hard work, and that's where I was in my head.

I was like yeah, I'm going to dream it.

I'm going to envision it and all this stuff but I gotta to find a path to get there.

And that path for me was work.

KATE: She learned the business of fashion the hard way, a hustle that eventually led to partnerships with some of the biggest style icons on the planet, figuring out her own superpower along the way.

EMMA: I had a feeling that what my skill was and what my superpower was was working with people and finding like mutual ground.

And being the person that could tell a story and talk their way out of anything.

KATE: Emma is unapologetically ambitious, and today she's sharing the secrets to her success and how to think about money differently.

EMMA: If you want money, you have to have some audacity.

It requires audacity, and not just if you want money; if you want to be paid, what you're worth.

You can't do that quietly.

KATE: What's better in life than a bottle of wine, great food, and an amazing conversation?

My name is Kate Sullivan, and I am the host of To Dine For .

I'm a journalist, a foodie, a traveler with an appetite for the stories of people who are hungry for more: dreamers, visionaries, artists: those who hustle hard in the direction they love.

I travel with them to their favorite restaurant to hear how they did it.

This show is a toast to them and their American Dream.

To Dine For with Kate Sullivan is made possible by... FEMALE ANNOUNCER: We support the doers and dreamers.

Those working today toward a more secure tomorrow.

At American National, we're proud to help you make that future possible.

[Wine dribbling into glass] KATE: Hello everyone!

Today I'm in Santa Monica, California on my way into the Sirena restaurant at the Georgian Hotel.

I am meeting a true visionary, an entrepreneur who is the creative force behind not one, but two powerhouse brands.

I can't wait for you to meet Emma Grede.

EMMA GREDE: [crosstalk] Hi!

So nice to meet you.

KATE: Lovely to meet you.

EMMA: It's so lovely to meet you.

How are you?

KATE: I'm excellent.

How are you?

EMMA: I'm great.

I'm hungry.

KATE: Me too.

We are in the right place to satisfy that hunger.

The Georgian Hotel, where an intimate outdoor dining experience is surrounded by decades of Hollywood history and glamour.

PHILIP PAVEL: It's a, a beautiful art-deco jewel.

Right on the coast, on Ocean Avenue, directly across from the ocean with postcard views.

We're historic, we're quirky.

I love that it was known as "The First Lady," because it was the first hotel on Ocean Avenue.

But from the moment it started, the Georgian Room downstairs was a historic place where everyone from Carole Lombard, Clark Gable, Bette Davis, Charlie Chaplin, Marilyn Monroe, all did time here at the hotel.

KATE: A hotel that's been a Santa Monica classic since 1933, with its Georgian Room.

A nostalgic steakhouse with a speakeasy feel that takes you back to Hollywood's golden age with its glitzy history and formidable star power.

While the beautifully perched Sirena, features elevated dining inspired by Italy's Amalfi Coast and California's fresh, locally-sourced ingredients.

PHILIP: You're in California, so you're going to have a lot of fresh produce, freshest seafood right here on the beach, it's uh inspired by coastal Italian but it's also inherently Californian.

KATE: And Sirena's Seafood is on our menu today, starting with their classic shrimp cocktail, served with the spritz of fresh lemon and a zesty horseradish cocktail sauce, followed by perfectly cooked salmon atop sauted asparagus, slow roasted tomatoes and a silky saffron aioli.

PHILIP: I want a guest to feel transported when they come here, because of the history and uniqueness of the environment.

But I also want them to feel incredibly relaxed and taken care of.

We're eclectic and we're unique and I think that people who are drawn to us really understand and fall in love with us for that reason.

KATE: The Georgian has style, elegance, history.

It is the perfect spot to enjoy a lovely lunch in a beautiful setting with a powerhouse entrepreneur whose road to success is as inspiring as it was challenging.

KATE: Take me back to where you grew up, East London.

EMMA: Oh yeah.

KATE: If you had to describe it to someone who hasn't been.

How would you do that?

EMMA: Miserable.

[Both laugh] KATE: Really?

EMMA: Well, it was and I tell you why.

Because it was kind of a place that, you know, back then.

Very different, you know, to what it is now.

Parts of it have become gentrified.

But let me tell you not where I was from.

I was there last week and I was like, "This is still the same."

KATE: It hasn't changed.

EMMA: It hasn't changed a bit.

But I come from a place that was, you know, it's it's the hood, it's the ghetto of London.

And I really grew up with this sense of feeling very much a part of the community.

And there were great parts of that, and there were tougher parts of that.

But I do think about the foundation of me as a businesswoman and the things that I learned there being really important as I've moved in my career and as I've moved in business, this idea of, you know, kind of telling the truth, being a, you know, person of your word, making sure that you deliver on what it is that you say you're going to do.

Um and also not mincing your words and being very straightforward about what it is that you want and what your expectations are.

And I do think that that's been really foundational in, in me and the way I've gone about my, my career.

KATE: But you were a worker from the very beginning... EMMA: From the start, yup I've always had a job.

KATE: And you're one of your first jobs was?

EMMA: The paper route.

KATE: The paper route.

Tell me about that.

EMMA: Well, you know, I would do anything for some cash because I loved fashion magazines that, you know, I'm talking when I was 12 years old.

So, I had a paper route from 12 until 15, every single morning before school.

And I loved it because I really learned that the power of the mornings and this kind of quietness, and you would see people going out to work and you'd see them getting ready in their house.

And I just understood A: that, you know, you could get out and make your own money and B: that there was some power in this like early hours.

But more than that, like I understood that it was like my own effort that was pouring into myself, I was like the more of this I could do, the better things are going to be for me.

And so that, that was really formative.

KATE: Oh, thank you very much.

EMMA: Oh here we go.

KATE: That looks amazing.

EMMA: This is what we're talking about.

KATE: Yes!

Delicious.

Thank you very much.

What I'm hearing from you is that you really, at a very young age, understood you had an agency over your life and that if you wanted something, you could go after it.

EMMA: Yeah, I never felt stuck.

You know?

I always thought that I could see through what was in front of me.

And that there was something on the other side- KATE: That's powerful.

EMMA: Yeah.

My mum really taught me that, though, you know, I could see how she was transforming our circumstances and our life by getting up and going to work every day.

And I really saw those possibilities for myself.

KATE: I love the image of you sharing a bedroom with your two sisters, and cutting up... EMMA: A bunk bed in a single bed.

KATE: And cutting out magazines and envisioning a dream life.

What did you imagine?

EMMA: You know, I was obsessed with fashion as a kid, and you would get these magazines: the Vogues, and the Elles, and the Marie Claires and they would do these summaries of the shows, and then you would have fashion advertising.

And I was so meticulous, I would cut them out, I would scrapbook them.

I would file the ads by designer.

And for me, it was like how some people think about the movies, you know, it was like my means of escape and thinking about this, like beautiful industry that was happening in Paris.

But Paris might as well have been California.

It felt so far away from my reality.

KATE: There's such power in that.

EMMA: Yeah, huge power.

KATE: You have to dream it before anything else.

EMMA: Yeah.

KATE: And allow yourself to dream.

EMMA: I think that ambition has to make really hard work, and that's where I was in my head.

I was like yeah, I'm going to dream it.

I'm going to envision it and all this stuff but I gotta find a path to get there.

And that path for me was work and it was unenjoyable work in the beginning.

Packing boxes, working at PR agencies, schlepping around, trying to get any door open around London Fashion Week.

It wasn't in my head, like I'm going to make a vision board.

KATE: Right.

EMMA: Because- KATE: Action!

EMMA: Yeah, let's go, let's move.

KATE: It was a dream that would one day become a reality, with lots of hard work and laser focus.

At 16, Emma enrolled at the London College of Fashion, but dropped out so she could pursue a career in the fashion industry.

In her early 20s, she discovered she was dyslexic.

KATE: How has that been a superpower for you?

EMMA: That's a great question, because the first thing to say is that I wasn't diagnosed dyslexic until I was in my early 20s.

It was, um, a boyfriend of mine at the time said, "I think you're dyslexic."

I was like "how dare you?

So rude!

Maybe."

[Both laugh] And so school was just hard for me.

You know, and I thought it was hard because I wasn't you know that smart, and I wasn't good at math and I found it just difficult to follow instructions.

But it turns out that I was dyslexic.

But I think there were a lot of reasons that I wasn't a good student.

KATE: You clearly did ok.

EMMA: I did alright, you know I did alright.

But my son is dyslexic.

So I think now what we're able to do and the fact that we recognize dyslexia as not just a learning difficulty, but it actually has so much value, that the way I approach problems, the way I think about things, is really abstract because that's the way my brain works.

But I have a very straightforward way of thinking and will just sort of bash the door down and I think that comes because I wasn't able to approach problem solving in the way that somebody might traditionally, if you can wrap your head around math and language more traditionally.

KATE: I'm curious, how did you get your first foot in the door of fashion?

EMMA: Oh, my goodness, I hustled.

I knew I wanted to be in fashion, and so I wrote to every PR agency, I wrote to every designer that was showing in London, I went to- you know, I was working in a store.

And I would quiz people and if somebody told me that they were a stylist and I was doing a poll, I'd be like "whatcha shooting?

Whatcha doing?

Can I come?

Can I assist on that shoot?"

And then if was, you know, on a day that I was working I'd go to my boss, and I'd be "can I have the day off?

I just got this opportunity."

And they'd be like "can you stop getting opportunities, like this is where you work!"

And so for me, I was always asking questions, and I'm such a curious person.

And when I got opportunities, I was just excellent.

I doubled down, I didn't ask any questions.

I went in holding my hand up going "I'll do that, I'll do that, and I'll do that."

Like whatever it was, I would just do it and that's still my mentality now in so many ways.

KATE: Was there a project where you said, "This is the right industry for me?"

Was there a moment that you said, "Okay, I nailed that, and this is my future?"

EMMA: Here's the truth.

I found every job I didn't want to do.

I was like "that's terrible.

That doesn't pay very well.

Those people are awful."

You know, I went around the fashion industry.

But what it did was gave me a picture of what the business and the industry was.

KATE: Are you saying you took on all the jobs that you didn't want to do to see?

EMMA: Yeah.

Accidentally.

You know I've been in places I thought I wanted to be in PR, then I thought I wanted to be a journalist, then I thought I wanted to be a buyer, it turns out that I didn't want to be anything of those things; but I did understand that I wanted to be on the business side of things.

I had a feeling that what my skill was and what my superpower was was working with people... KATE: Mm.

EMMA: and finding like mutual ground.

And being the person that could tell a story and talk their way out of anything and so, I knew I wasn't going to be on the creative side of fashion, even though that's the bit that I thought I loved, I was like "no, no, no I'm just an interpreter."

I understand those people and I can take what it is that they're thinking about and put it in a context that makes sense commercially.

I didn't have the language for that in those days, but I definitely understood that I wasn't a creative person and I probably was a business person.

KATE: What were you doing in London when you realized you wanted to start your own company?

[Emma laughs] You know what what kind of work were you doing?

Where you're saying I could do this on my own?

EMMA: Yeah.

I stumbled into this kind of fashion sponsorship brand partnership space.

Meaning that none of the designers had enough money to show, so they had to get supplemented by brands to do these shows at London Fashion Week.

And my job was to put a designer and a brand together in a partnership, broker that partnership and take a piece of the action.

Take a percentage.

KATE: That's a true businesswoman.

EMMA: It was a business, it was a hustle.

KATE: A hustle that she turned into her first business venture as CEO of ITB, a talent management and marketing agency.

But it wasn't nearly enough.

With her career starting to soar, she made a bold move cold-calling Kris Jenner to pitch an all-inclusive denim brand with her daughter Khloe Kardashian.

They said yes, and one year later, Good American was born.

The launch so successful it sold $1 million on its first day.

Soon after, she partnered with Kim Kardashian to start the figure enhancing brand Skims, followed by Jenner's own cleaning products brand, Safely.

KATE: Good American was your idea, and it was based on a real need American woman have and that there aren't cool brands denim for all sizes of women.

Correct?

EMMA: Absolutely.

And actually, not even just American women, I think women all over the world.

KATE: Yes.

EMMA: Plus size women have been treated like the last after-fall in fashion for so long.

And you have to remember, this is going back ten years now.

So that the idea and the inception of the brand was ten years ago.

We launched nine years ago, but we were first to market with so many things.

You weren't going online and seeing women like the E-Com models in different sizes.

You weren't walking into Nordstrom and finding plus size clothing alongside 'missy' size clothing, KATE: Right.

It was a different- BOTH: it was it was on a different floor.

KATE: You had to go to a different floor.

EMMA: Up to level 5, next to the canteen... KATE: Yes.

Right.

EMMA: In a corner with a lot of stuff that nobody wanted.

So we completely reimagined what that business looked like.

And everybody sat up and went, "Whoa!"

Like there's really something to this.

And so it was a huge moment for me and for my career, but it really gave me a, a baptism by fire.

If you like.

KATE: [Emma laughs] Wow.

And here is the salmon.

EMMA: Oh yum.

Delicious.

KATE: Yum.

This looks fantastic.

Thank you very much.

EMMA: This is like a meal that I eat three times a week.

KATE: Oh.

Delicious, healthy.

EMMA: A piece of salmon and some vegetables.

KATE: Very California, can't go wrong.

EMMA: Can't go wrong.

KATE: Okay, so you have the idea, and you have relationships based on your previous work with all sorts of celebrities.

Why Khloe Kardashian?

EMMA: Well, you know, in the beginning, I have to say, I didn't even think about this as being something that would be that type of partnership.

I think the opportunities and timing just kind of collided, over and over again in my career.

And um when I decided that it would be the right thing to do to create a partnership, I understood from my years in business what talent could do to accelerate a brand, to accelerate the knowledge of that brand existing, to accelerate the sales, in the beginning.

KATE: Exposure.

EMMA: It was huge, that partnership is something that I look back on and I think, wow, how lucky.

How fortuitous, but it was one of those things, that it just so happened that it was the right thing for her and it was the right thing for me, and the timing worked perfectly.

KATE: You had a very powerful why for starting this company and that's apparent.

You really just articulated that.

But how do you then build a brand?

Because a why is the beginning of your brand, but it's not all of it.

What more to brand building is there that we don't know about?

EMMA: I mean, so much.

First of all, I think that there was, there was a really obvious why.

There were a set of principles in that brand, a reason for us to exist.

And it wasn't just about, oh, we're going to make all the sizes, all the time.

It was like, okay, then if you're going to do that, how does that change the way that you do this?

That meant when any retailer came to us with an order, they too had to take all the sizes so we could never be performative.

It meant that when we would hire models, we would make sure that we were really showing the full breadth and the full range of customers-in the clothing back to them.

But it changed the way that we operated and we did business.

And even if you look at Good American today, so much has changed in that business.

In fact, I believe that everything should change in a company, except your principles, except the reason you exist.

So that should always stay the same.

And then you transition on the way up.

KATE: At some point, you also start working on Skims.

How does this happen?

And do you ever think to yourself, do I have the bandwidth for this?

EMMA: [Laughs] No, that isn't the first question.

I mean, listen, I think when you're a consultant and when you start your career in consultancy, you're a shape shifter.

You know, I would walk into Mercedes and I would do a great job for them, and then I would go over to Dior and I would do a great job for them.

And then I'd go and have a conversation with H and M, and I do a good job there.

And so this ability to kind of flex and do different things and play different roles its always been within me.

And I do play different roles at those companies.

I'm the chief product officer at Skims.

And so, you know, that was a very different situation because that was Kim's idea.

That was Kim's vision.

KATE: So Kim comes to you?

EMMA: Yeah.

We had like a whole conversation.

KATE: Yes.

EMMA: She had an idea about what it was that she wanted to build.

And I think that I was a trusted partner at that point- KATE: Right.

EMMA: Of the family.

And so it made sense that we would do something together.

KATE: Now, after years of building a business empire, moving to America to fulfill those ambitions, and balancing married life with four children, this visionary is stepping into the spotlight to help others achieve their dreams.

Launching the podcast, Aspire, and writing a book entitled Start With Yourself.

She chaired the 15 percent Pledge, where businesses dedicate 15 percent of their shelf space to Black-owned brands.

She also became a shark on Shark Tank as the first mixed race woman investor in the show's history.

KATE: I imagine you feel like you're in your element as a shark on Shark Tank.

EMMA: I did, you know, because I'm myself in any situation.

You know, I went on, I was like, I'm not one of the other sharks.

I'm me, I'm going to ask all the questions that I would usually ask.

And, you know, I'm a very gut instinct person.

That's how I've always been in business.

I go with my gut.

I go with what I know.

I do things I understand and I thought I'm not going to be any different, 'cause I'm on, you know, on the telly.

KATE: Why did you start Aspire?

Like what- because you have enough going on... EMMA: So much going on.

KATE: And you are curious.

So I can see that it's like a, are you flexing a muscle that you've always wanted to flex or just wondering, was there- you always chase the money.

We know that podcasts aren't money, right?

EMMA: It's not for the money, that's not for the money.

Okay, so let's just be honest.

KATE: Yeah.

EMMA: I think that when we hear about successful women in business, we hear like a really narrow part of the story.

And so what I wanted to do is lift the lid on what it takes to build a company?

How you go out and raise money?

How you sell a company?

What it looks like post-exit?

And how much does all of that stuff cost?

How do you actually conduct a good interview?

Because I was like "who is, who is telling the truth about this?"

KATE: What do you think most women get wrong about money?

What's the number one thing?

EMMA: I think most women imagine if they buckle down and work really hard and do everything that's expected of them, that the money will find them.

KATE: Yes, I think so.

EMMA: And it never, ever, ever does.

KATE: Why?

EMMA: Because here's the thing: if you want money, you have to have some audacity.

It requires audacity and not just if you want money; if you want to be paid, what you're worth.

And when I say audacity, that is to understand what your value is and to be clear about what your value is and then to demand that you are paid that value.

You can't do that quietly.

You can't do that with soft ambition.

You can't do that by wishing and hoping that your work is seen.

You have to be there saying, "here's my work, here's my contribution, here's what I'm doing.

And here are all my options if I can't get what I need."

But you have to have an awareness of all of that stuff.

And so what I want to say and what I'm trying to do in this book, is to bring money back into the center of the conversation, because we have this idea that it's kind of like, not so nice, to be speaking about money.

KATE: It's gauche to talk about money.

EMMA: Yeah.

It's like we don't we don't want to do that.

KATE: Right.

EMMA: I actually want women to understand that you can do really meaningful and impactful work and care about money, that you can care about money, and you can care about lots and lots of lots of other things, too.

Those two things can be true.

And so I think if you shy away from the money conversation, you'll never find it.

KATE: Do you think someone is a born entrepreneur or they can, learn it?

EMMA: It's a great question.

I think they're entrepreneurial traits for sure.

KATE: Because you have them in spades.

EMMA: Yeah, but then there is a lot of other stuff that I needed to learn.

You know, a lot of the things that you would think, you know... I- I never thought of myself as somebody that was going to be able to get their head around business finances, around a PNL, around complicated financial models.

And I can do all of that now.

But that came through training, that came through admitting that I wasn't the best, but also this... I kind of I'm very, very clear from the beginning that I didn't need to be everything.

You know, I have vision.

I'm a creative thinker.

I'm really good at building strategy and getting everybody to come with me.

There's other things that I'm less good at, but I never thought, "Oh, I shouldn't be the CEO of this company because I'm not the CFO."

I was like, you hire a CFO.

You hire somebody to come in and run the jurisdiction, you hire somebody to do operations.

And I'm really good at hiring the best people.

And so I never put myself in a situation that I would derail myself or degrade myself because of the things that I didn't know.

I thought that what I came to the table with was good enough.

That I could still be in that leadership position, and I knew better because I was looking at all of these guys around me, and I was like, why he's not so great at everything.

And he figured it out.

KATE: And wow did Emma Grede figure it out, too.

She's nowhere near done, still creating opportunities for others, all while living her American dream.

What haven't you done that you would like to do professionally?

EMMA: Oh, so many things.

It's unbelievable.

I think what I'm really focused on now is making sure that women aren't left behind because you kind of look at that first tech explosion and for the most part, women were really left out.

KATE: Completely.

EMMA: Or they were kind of in, you know, in position two, three, four, five.

I want to make sure that that isn't the case, that we kind of move into what this future is.

KATE: I'm always curious to hear how different people define the modern American dream.

What is it to you?

EMMA: I think it's really interesting because if you look at my journey, I don't know that what I've done in the last 8 or 9 years is possible anywhere else on Earth.

And you know, Winston Churchill saying, he used to say, the quote is "I'm an optimist, I see no point in anything else."

And I really am an optimist because what has happened to me here has been so life changing and because it happened in America, because I've been able, and allowed, and emboldened to have this journey, I'm so- Like I look at America and I go "wow, the American dream is still alive."

KATE: You know, usually I interview a CEO or founder, and I feel like they have built up an amazing business, but that that will be their legacy.

And I feel like with you, there's so much more.

I could see you taking on another company, building something new.

EMMA: Thank you.

I'll take all of that.

KATE: Yeah.

EMMA: Who knows?

EMMA: I feel like the world's my oyster.

That's the other thing about being here or being in America.

There's nonstop opportunity and I think for those that are willing to work and take a bit of risk, like it's all for the taking.

KATE: The world is your oyster.

EMMA: Truly.

KATE: Thank you, Emma.

Thank you for your time.

Really appreciate it.

EMMA: Loved it.

KATE: Wow, what a lunch with Emma Grede.

She is as dynamic as she appears.

A force who alchemized her humble beginnings through hard work and grit.

She went after it, and now she wants to get women talking about money, about success, about what it really takes.

She is an advocate and an ally, and even though she never graduated from high school or college, she is an A-plus student in the classroom of life.

[Soft rock music] KATE: If you would like to know more about the guests, the restaurants, and the inspiring stories of success, please visit ToDineForTV.com or follow us on Facebook and Instagram @ToDineForTV.

We also have a podcast.

To Dine For , The Podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

To Dine For with Kate Sullivan is made possible by... FEMALE ANNOUNCER: We support the doers and dreamers.

Those working today toward a more secure tomorrow.

At American National, we're proud to help you make that future possible.

[Wine dribbling into glass]