Zac Schultz:
How are schools doing as we start the new year? For answers to that, we check in with Dan Rossmiller, executive director of the Wisconsin Association of School Boards and thanks for joining us today.

Dan Rossmiller:
Thanks for inviting me.

Zac Schultz:
So in recent years, coming out of the pandemic, we’ve seen a number of school districts struggle with staffing, both in terms of classroom teachers and support staff like bus drivers. How are things looking this fall?

Dan Rossmiller:
Well, I think things are looking a little better than they have in the past. It’s very challenging. I would say that the two things that really impact staffing are the inflation that we’ve experienced in the marketplace. And I drive around the state visiting with my members and going to regional meetings in the fall. And I remember last fall seeing all the signs in front of Kwik Trip and Culvers, you know, starting at $17, $18, $19 an hour. And that made it difficult for schools to compete for many of those positions. But I seem — I’m not hearing as much concern about those positions this year as I have in the past. Not saying that we’re out of the woods, but things seem to be a little better.

Zac Schultz:
We’ve seen a record number of districts go to referenda asking voters to raise their own property taxes, especially for funding operational referenda, not just building new buildings. How dire is the situation in these districts where the voters say no?

Dan Rossmiller:
Well, it can be very dire. Over the years, we’ve had revenue limits in place now for 31, 32 years. And that’s two generations of kids that have gone through school. And over time, many districts have become increasingly dependent, probably 100 districts or more in the state rely on referendum funding for 10% or more of their budget. And if those referendums don’t pass, imagine cutting 10% out of your household budget or the budget of a business that you work with. It’s significant. It creates a whole set of problems for those districts and the students that are educated in them.

Zac Schultz:
In a new environment, we’re also seeing more EMS and cities themselves go to referendum because they feel they need additional funds. So how does that work when a school district is competing with ambulance services to get voters to say yes?

Dan Rossmiller:
Well, we’ll see. Last fall, Fort Atkinson competed their school district with their municipality, and the municipality succeeded, the school district did not. So it’s a challenge. We’re going to see that here in Madison. We’re going to see that in a number of communities. It’s part of then — an interplay. The legislature is trying to hold down property taxes while providing sufficient funding. And I think it’s an indication that the attempt to clamp down on property taxes is creating some problems.

Zac Schultz:
This is a long-standing pathway that got us here in terms of eight years of Scott Walker and the Republican legislature holding down school funding, local funding in favor of property tax relief, plus the fiscal cliff created by the ESSER funds and the COVID pandemic money. Do you think that the public understands how we got here, or are they just wondering, “Well, how did this local school district mismanage their budget to be this far in the hole?”

Dan Rossmiller:
I think that is a question. And it’s a, it’s a complicated one so bear with me for a moment. Since the Great Recession in 2008-09 and the changes that Governor Walker made and the legislature made since then, for the first number of years that revenue limits were in place for schools, the legislature made annual adjustments that tried to keep pace with inflation, and they were pretty successful for the most part. Districts were able to keep pace with inflation, maybe even do a little better. Since 2012, the allowable increases, the increases in resources for schools that the legislature has allowed have been roughly half of the rate of inflation. Chances are, in a few years, if inflation continues, you are going to be back asking the voters — if inflation continues and your declining enrollment continues, you almost certainly will be back asking the voters. We’ve had some districts go to the voters ten times or more. And part of the reason for that is that it’s easier for districts to pass a temporary exception to the revenue limit than it is for them to pass a permanent one. So those temporary exceptions last for two, three, four years. At the end of that time, those districts find themselves having to come back to the voters or having to make significant cuts in programs and services. So that, in a nutshell, that explains why districts are having to go back to the voters. It’s because the resources provided to them, allowed to them by state law, are not keeping pace with inflation.

Zac Schultz:
Moving to a slightly different topic, we’re in the middle of a very contentious election season. What is your advice to how teachers and administrators should handle politics in the classroom, whether brought up by students or the teachers or parents or anyone else?

Dan Rossmiller:
Well, that’s a matter of some delicacy, and I think it’s going to vary from district to district. I think those are important discussions that can happen, particularly in our social studies and other classrooms, about how our democracy functions. I think it’s a, it’s a balancing act for teachers not to be telling students how they ought to vote, but educating them about the process, educating them about the issues, what the candidates differing views are. I think there’s a place for that in our democracy. But if you get too much on an advocacy side, one way or the other, I think that is likely to cause problems in the community.

Zac Schultz:
The legislature has signed off on an audit of the Department of Public Instruction and how it monitors public school finances, especially in light of the Milwaukee Public Schools, you know, budget issues recently. What do you hope to learn from that audit?

Dan Rossmiller:
Well, I hope that we’ll be able to learn how we can better help school boards and school districts that have audits that that show some red flags. Every school district is required to have a financial audit report filed with the DPI. It’s understandable when you have 421 districts and 421 audits being filed. And I think, you know, school finance is very complicated. You mentioned the influx of the federal dollars. There were differing standards and uses for those monies, according to which of the three tranches of money the school was dealing with. So the accounting for that was complicated. And it’s not surprising that some districts, perhaps struggled with that a little bit.

Zac Schultz:
All right. We’ll leave it there. Dan Rossmiller from the Wisconsin Association of School Boards, thanks for your time.

Dan Rossmiller:
Thank you for having me.