By the River with Holly Jackson

Host> USA today bestselling author Donna Everhart uses her love of the South to tell gritty stories with strong female characters.

Donna> I always love having the strong female characters, and there are people in my life that I admire and look up to.

My mother was one, obviously, and she passed away from cancer back in August of 2019.

And, but she was very courageous and she was a good inspiration for me throughout my life.

Strong woman.

She ran her own daycare.

And if anybody has ever run a daycare, you know that that is not for the faint of heart.

>> Right.

And so she was somebody that I admired greatly.

Host> Her book, When The Jessamine Grows, is a story about love and loss, family and survival, standing by one's values and finding the grace to believe in a better future.

Donna> It's basically, if we want to understand war fully, we need to also understand what is happening on the front lines, as well as what's happening on the back lines where women are in charge of keeping life going.

And that's essentially what the story is about.

Host> Donna talks with me about her deep love of the South and how it influences her writing.

I'm Holly Jackson.

Join us as we bring you powerful stories from both new and established Southern authors as we sit by the river.

Narrator> Major funding for By The River is provided by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina.

For more than forty years.

The ETV ETV Endowment of South Carolina has been a partner of South Carolina ETV, and South Carolina Public Radio.

>> Hi, I am Holly Jackson.

Thanks so much for joining us here for By The River.

We do love having you around.

You know, By The River is a show that goes beyond the book.

We're more than a book review.

We will talk about the book, but we wanna talk to the author and learn more about that author and what led them to their stories.

Today we're pleased to have Donna Everhart and she has a whole lot of books that she's written.

Thanks so much for stopping by here.

Donna> I really appreciate y'all having me.

Holly> Absolutely.

All right.

So let's go ahead and talk a little bit about your latest book.

>> Okay.

>> Tell me about it.

>> When the Jessamine Grows is a step away from some of my normal Southern fiction.

And by that I just mean that it's taking place about a hundred years further back.

So it's a Civil War novel, but not really a Civil War novel.

And what I mean by that, I have this perfect quote and it's, it's basically, if we want to understand war fully, we need to also understand what is happening on the front lines, as well as what's happening on the back lines where women are in charge of keeping life going.

And that's essentially what the story is about.

It's about a family who are yeoman farmers or subsistence farmers, and that just means that they grow what they need for their food.

They don't have any interest in the war.

And when this book begins, it's on, they're at the cusp of the Civil War beginning.

North Carolina has not seceded yet.

And so they're neutral and they want to remain neutral.

And there are events that take place at the very beginning of the book that sets the whole story in motion, where they are inadvertently drug into it by their oldest son taking off and joining.

And it's a story about Joetta McBride who is left behind to keep the family going.

And she becomes basically a pariah in the community because she does not support the Confederate cause.

But she doesn't really support the Union cause either.

She is right there in the middle.

Holly> Was there anything in your life or any kind of event that maybe happened that kind of gave you that tug that said you wanted to tell this story?

Especially about the strong female, you know, and, and how that leads the way here?

Donna> All of my stories are like that, I guess you could say.

I always love having the strong female characters, and there are people in my life that I admire and look up to.

My mother was one obviously, and she passed away from cancer back in August of 2019.

And, but she was very courageous and she was a good inspiration for me throughout my life.

Strong woman.

She ran her own daycare.

And if anybody has ever run a daycare, you know that that is not for the faint of heart.

>> Right.

And so she was somebody that I admired greatly.

And there there's just a variety of other women, you know, not only personal, but in my professional life.

I was in information technology for 35 years and I had a lot of bosses during that time that were female.

And I looked up to them and aspired, you know, to be in a corporate world, you know, the female role, especially when I was doing this job in IT, if I didn't say that already.

There was not that many women in those roles.

And so, you know, it was, it was always something to look up to these female managers and supervisors and directors and aspire to that until I started writing.

Holly> Yeah.

Well, I'm interested now to hear about that differentiation between you as in your professional life with IT, profession that is, you know, so exact.

And then on your personal life, you've got this creative side as a writer.

At what point did you, did you start writing and just tell me how you kind of have these different worlds.

Donna> It's, well, I've always said that if Nortel, it was Nortel that I worked for, had not gone bankrupt.

I might still be there.

I called myself a cubicle rat and I did a lot of different roles with them.

Project manager, technical project manager, supervisor, manager, you know.

So I went through that whole time.

I was with them for 25 years and then 10 years with another company before that.

But what essentially got me on the path of writing, it's always been reading.

I have first and foremost been a reader all my life.

And I landed on, of course there's the classic southern fiction, William Faulkner, Flannery O'Connor, Carson McCullers.

You know, we read all those.

But it wasn't until I landed on Kay Gibbons and Dorothy Allison and their stories that something just kind of clicked.

And I knew if I ever wanted to write anything at all, I wanted to write stories like what they wrote.

And so while I was doing my IT work in the background, this story writing a book was percolating and had been for some time.

And all this was happening, if you can believe it, like around the early nineties, you know, 'cause that's when Kay Gibbons and Dorothy Allison were kind of really becoming well known in the literary world.

And I remember starting on a book and it was like 85 pages of a manuscript.

Something would happen at work and I'd get ticked off and Holly> Right.

That was kind of your outlet.

>> Yep.

And then I would go and pull the manuscript out and, you know, ahh, I'm going to quit and I'm going to become a writer.

But then I would put that away and I wouldn't touch it for like three years.

But Nortel went bankrupt in 2008, and I told my husband, if I'm ever going to do anything about writing, now is the time.

And so I stayed with the company as they transitioned through their Chapter 11, selling off parts of the business.

I didn't, I wasn't let go right away.

It wasn't until 2012.

And almost strangely enough, that was when I signed with my agent.

And that 25 or 85 page manuscript was what became The Education of Dixie Dupree.

And so there's a lot more to that.

But essentially it was getting out of the, the IT business and into writing in 2012.

And that's what I've been doing ever since.

Holly> I love looking back at my life and other people's lives and you know, at that moment when you heard that bad news about your job, it probably seemed like just the worst thing.

But now looking back, if that hadn't happened, this wouldn't have happened.

Right?

Because it was the part that opened the door for, all right, let's do this thing that we've always dreamed of and talked about.

Donna> That's exactly right.

I was devastated.

I mean, I, like I said earlier, if it hadn't happened, it's very possible that I would've been there until my retirement and I would've never known.

And so sometimes, you know, I think things happen for a reason and for as devastated as I was, the people that I worked with at that company were like my family.

You know, we used to joke, you know, I see the Nortel people more than I see my own family.

Holly> Right.

>> And because it was a commute for me to go from Dunne into the Research Triangle Park.

It was 60 miles one way.

So I was doing 120 miles round trip.

But at any rate, I, I thought, this is, you know, this is crazy.

I'm, I'm never gonna recover from this, you know?

>> Right.

Where am I gonna go?

What am I gonna do?

Because that was back during the day when people were, you know, were more inclined to stick with a role or with a position in obviously 25 years.

So I didn't know, but I decided to, I went back to school.

I got a degree in a Bachelor of Science in Business Management, which is doing me absolutely no good right now.

And I, I pulled the manuscript out and I started working on it, you know, and I kept working for the company as well until they said, you know, it's time to go.

And so I didn't care at that point because I had just signed with that agent I mentioned.

And so my, my sites now were on publishing.

Is it, even though you've been in this world now for a little bit, is it still kind of wild and crazy and weird to be like, wait a minute, this is what I'm doing now?

>> Yes.

(laughs) Holly> It still is?

Donna> I'm still not -- Holly> Pinch yourself.

>> I'm on a high all the time.

Holly> Is this really happening?

Yeah.

>> You know, I mean, I feel very fortunate, very lucky.

I, I feel, like I said earlier, things may happen for a reason and it's, you know, it's not easy.

It's not easy to write these books at all.

I get moody, you know, when things aren't coming together and I'm having trouble with plot points and trying to get through certain parts of the story and like, what now?

And blocks and go outside and pull weeds and, you know, and try to get the frustration out.

And so -- Holly> So this latest book is number six or -- Donna> This is number six.

Holly> This is number six.

Donna> Yes.

Holly> Okay.

So you had talked about during that time when you were working and you were kind of writing you said I'd put it down for, like, three years.

Well, you're not doing that now.

Do you, do you keep yourself on a tight schedule of I have to do this by this date?

Or tell me how that kind of works.

Donna> It's, it's really exactly like that.

Like, I am a try to go for a thousand words a day type of writer.

>> Okay.

And when I say a day, I don't hardly ever take a break.

And I don't always get that 1000 words in.

And if I don't, it's okay.

You know, I have, well, I have learned to accept that it's okay.

And for me, I just chalk it up to, okay, there's, there's a reason why I'm not getting to that 1000 words.

And it's because I usually don't know what is supposed to happen next.

But I do write to contract, which means that there is a date that I have to have it turned in.

And so -- Holly> It's probably helpful, right?

To keep you on task.

>> It is, it is.

Because you could procrastinate over a book forever.

My agent told me one time, he said, you have your whole life to write your first book, and then you have about a year or two after if you get a contract.

And so you have to learn.

>>Yeah.

To just really, okay, let's, (snaps fingers) let's get this thing done.

Holly> Well, you talked about that one degree that's doing you nothing but the project, the project manager stuff that probably helps you -- Donna> Time management too.

>> -- for staying on task, right?

Because you have this, this project manager voice of yours in your head -- >> Yeah.

>> -- knowing that you've got to stick to these deadlines.

Donna> I'm a very ritualistic type person.

I'm not, you know, real fussy about it.

But I definitely, I, even though I am at home, I'm, you know, sort of like a work at home person and I have to be upstairs by 7:30 AM, in my office.

And I usually go, now this is probably a mistake.

Sometimes I go through social media first -- >> Right.

>> -- just to kind of see what's going on, respond to people, respond to emails, you know, and then the next thing I know, it's like, oh, okay.

Holly> Wow, it's almost lunchtime.

Donna> Yeah.

(laughs) Exactly.

Yeah.

It's like, oh my, how time flies when you're on Twitter.

Holly> I know.

X now.

Donna> X, yeah.

>> Exactly.

So anyway, but yeah, I'm very, I am pretty regimented.

I start to feel guilty if I'm, you know, if I let -- Holly> If you get behind or something?

Donna> If I'm wasting time like that.

It's like, you're wasting time.

You're wasting time.

I have this little task master on my shoulder, you know?

Like cracking the bull whip.

Holly> Right.

Donna> Yeah.

Holly> That's fun.

Okay, so tell me how, whenever this all started, we, we've talked about kind of what stage life you were in when you decided I'm gonna go for it.

Let's go back to the feelings of that.

Was that scary?

Was it exciting?

Was it a mixture?

Donna> It was- Well, so in that three year period where Nortel has, you know, and I decide, okay, I'm gonna write a book, but I kept working for them.

So that eased my transition I think, a little bit because it wasn't like it was just cut off and that was it.

If it had been that, you know, this would've been a little more challenging because obviously, you know, most households are two people income.

>> Right.

>> You know, so we didn't, I didn't wanna put any more burden on my husband to, you know, live this dream.

>>Right.

>> You know, without making sure that I could do it in a way that was fair.

And so I was lucky because I continued to work for them.

And through that time of working and writing, I was, I somehow found this freelance editor.

And I'll be honest with you, the way I did that was I Googled who edited Ellen Foster.

And so this was after I had that 85 page manuscript where I thought, okay, I have a book.

>> Right.

>> I have a book.

Well, so I found out it was a lady named Anne Patty, and just to give everybody a sense of who Anne Patty is, she was a top five editor at one point.

And I can't recall the companies, the publishing companies that she worked for, but I know what sticks out in my head for some reason is she acquired the Life of Pi.

And everybody knows, seems to know that book.

But that was one of the books.

And so anyway, I reached out to her and probably my first mistake, and although she was very nice, and she never said this is a mistake, but I wrote this really long, long email to her.

>> Right.

Where she's probably like glancing real quick.

Donna> Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

(Holly laughs) Like, you know, I'd had no idea what I was doing.

But anyway, I reached out to her, and to make a long story short, she, I had sent along, at her instruction, the first five pages of what would become the first book, the debut book.

And she said something that encouraged me more than anything else could have at that time.

You have a voice and voice for a writer is so important because it just means that I had a way of putting my story together, not necessarily in my voice, but in the character's voice, and that voice stood out to her.

And you, I mean, as far as I was concerned, I had just hit the New York Times bestseller list.

>> Right.

Hearing from her.

Donna> Yeah.

>> Because you obviously held her in high regard.

Donna> Yeah, so, and she, so she said, well, send me the rest of the manuscript, you know, and as long as it doesn't have a fatal flaw, then I can work with you.

>> Oh.

And I was like, oh no, (whispering) fatal flaw.

Well, it had a fatal flaw, and I'll tell you what that was.

'cause a lot of people go, what's a fatal flaw?

So for me, it could be many things, I guess.

But for me it was the fact that the story was told in, like little vignettes.

And so there was no cohesive narrative.

>> Okay.

It was like a lot of the same little character, Dixie Dupree.

But it was a lot of little short stories.

And there was just no, you know, going from chapter one to chapter two.

I mean, I had it in the numbers, but I didn't have it in the story.

And so she said, but I don't want you to lose your momentum.

I'm going to refer you to an editor friend of mine who is also in freelance now.

And she had worked at one time for Harper Collins and her, she's retired, but her name was Caroline Upture, and she worked very different from Anne Patty in that she and I started working together 50 pages at a time.

And she was like the English teacher that I wanted to please.

I mean, she would give it to me straight, you know, sort of that sandwich method.

>> Right.

>> Good, bad, good.

Donna> Yes.

Yes.

I use that with my kids a lot.

Yeah.

And that's a, it's great, you know, it works.

Holly> You're very creative, but your room is a disaster.

Donna> Exactly.

Holly> Let's use your energy.

Donna> Well, I like that purple wall, but not necessarily the black wall.

>> Right.

Holly> And so, so you still work with her?

I do not.

She has retired.

And so I have an editor now, of course with a publishing house that I'm with, and I love him.

His name is John Sconomilio.

He's with Kensington.

And so he loves my work and that is gold.

>> Yes.

So, I mean, I, I appreciate that because he lets me write.

Holly> How crucial is it, talk, talk about that relationship and just how crucial it is to have that connection.

Donna> It's important.

It is important because, and I, you know, as a writer, I'm constantly looking and searching for people's experiences.

And especially in the beginning, before my book was picked up, before I was under contract, so that timeframe of 2012 to 2015.

So that book, even though it, Dixie Dupree, I got an agent in March of 2012, walked away from Nortel in March of 2012.

It didn't sell for three years.

And so in that three year period, I did something called panic writing.

But in the meantime, I was also looking up, you know, about other writer experiences.

I was constantly reading about this and I knew that there were people who had editors that they were afraid of their editor, you know?

>> Right.

And I was like, oh, you know.

Holly> Well, I mean, it's a lot like the, the teacher student experience.

And there are some who -- Donna> It's nerve wracking.

>> Right.

When you're sending in this, it's art, you know, it's you being a creative person and you know, there are very nurturing editors.

I would say there are more of those than there are of any of the ones that might scare somebody.

But for the most part, that's what I was doing.

And so I had read all kinds of varying degrees of what could happen, you know, the good, the bad, the ugly and all of that.

And so the first time I ever interacted with John Sconomilio, I was more nervous with him than I am right now.

And I, but I, I've been with him all this time.

We have come to know one another.

He is always, always so encouraging.

He was never, he has, I don't, I mean, I have never experienced anything, you know, with him where Donna, you know, this is just not working, you know, I mean, he always has great editorial feedback done in a positive way.

And you know, I'll give you an example.

In one of the books, my next book that I'm working on right now, I had sent him a proposal.

Of course, this all goes through the agent and everything.

And this is to fall into the contract of two books.

I had two, a two book contract here most recently.

And so this is book seven.

And I had positioned that book a certain way and he said, don't you think it would be a good idea to write it this way and then have this many characters?

I was like, I could do that, you know?

And of course -- Holly> So you're at a point where you respect that opinion instead of you're not crushed.

>> Yes, well, because of the way he does it.

Holly> It's the delivery.

Donna> Because he makes a suggestion.

And he said, it's up to you entirely, but I think you could do it that way.

You know?

And I'm like, yeah, I could do it that way.

Holly> Let's do it.

Right, right.

Well, one thing that really stands out to me is the way you use your time.

And I'm seeing that whenever the shakeup happened with the job and you recognize the timing, but then also during that three years of no selling, you use that downtime where it could have been very discouraging.

And okay, this isn't for me, but how can we make this happen?

And how did other people make this happen when they were in my same boat?

And I really like that.

And you know, before the camera started rolling, you and I both acknowledged the fact that there's a lot of students in the room right now, and they're being so quiet and doing their thing that they should, but we have students here from the University of South Carolina, Beaufort that work, who work on the show.

And a lot of them are that pivotal time of their life of, and we've talked already about the degree we didn't use or the.. the work that you know about going a different route.

It's okay.

>> Yeah.

Holly> But what kind of advice would you give them at this point in their life, whenever they might be in that, that waiting era of life?

Of how to use it.

Donna> I feel like never stop learning, you know, do research like I did.

If there's a particular interest that you have, then you should really look into that, explore it a little bit more.

That's what I was doing, and I found out that I had landed in a special place, you know, and I didn't know if the book would sell at that time, but I had this burning desire that it should, and I felt like it would.

You know, it's a gut instinct.

I feel like it's truly a gut instinct when you know that you are actually in the place that you need to be with your career.

And you will also know that when you're not, and that it's time to move on.

And so, you know, whether or not I was ready to move on from Nortel, it turned into something that may not have ever happened for me.

Holly> And a lot of people who watch this show are ones who are at that point of wanting to write the book and they wonder, am I too late?

Or, you know -- Donna> It's never too late.

>> Right, it's -- Donna> Late bloomer.

I'm a late bloomer in a lot of things.

Holly> Well, this seems to have worked out and it, it's, it's been really interesting talking to you because I love the behind the scenes that you've given us.

I've heard that before, but not as in so much detail, especially about the editing experience and how long that wait can be before you're really recognized as an author.

So thanks for giving us that insight.

Donna> Thank you so much for having me.

Holly> All right.

And thank you to everyone who's been watching today.

We really appreciate you tagging along with us.

We love having you around.

We hope you'll join us again next time, right here on By The River.

Narrator> Major funding for By the River is provided by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina.

For more than forty years, The ETV ETV Endowment of South Carolina has been a partner of South Carolina ETV, and South Carolina Public Radio.