Black Nouveau

(bright, resonant music) (somber music) Welcome to this special edition

of 10thirtysix

Listen MKE. I'm Portia Young. Listen MKE began as a year long project, involving the ideas lab of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, WUWM 89.7, Milwaukee's NPR, and Milwaukee Public Library to create listening opportunities for our residents living on Milwaukee's north side. I started it last year's Juneteenth Day. Milwaukee PBS is now bringing together the partners in order to help bring together our community in light of the recent protests after the murder of George Floyd, and the message that black lives matter. Two of my fellow media colleagues join me now and I'll let them introduce themselves. I'm James Causey, Journal Sentinel's projects reporter and 2019 2020 Marquette University O'Brien Fellow. I'm Teran Powell, the race and ethnicity reporter at WUWM Milwaukee's NPR. Thank you Teran, thank you James for being with us. Now before we listen to the event that you hosted on Facebook Live for Listen MKE, we want you to look at some of the striking images from recent protests around Milwaukee and the message that marchers want us to listen carefully to. (hopeful piano music) Those images, from several Milwaukee Journal Sentinel photographers, are powerful, and so is listening and trying to move the dialogue forward. This past Tuesday Listen MKE became a Facebook Live event. We interviewed two community leaders about the goals of the activists who are marching and what the community needs most right now. Let's listen. Joining me for a conversation today, Markasa Tucker, director of the African-American Roundtable and Pastor Walter Lanier of Progressive Baptist Church. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having me. Markasa, I'm gonna start with you. Can you talk about your role with the African-American Rountable? I actually came to the African-American Roundtable through our organization, Wisconsin Voices. And so I came to Wisconsin Voices in January 2014, as an office manager and was promoted to the Director of the Roundtable in August of 2017, after working with the Hamilton family around Dontre's murder, but also after supporting them in some of the work that they had done on the ground. And since then, we've done some work around the DOJ. So specifically, the Roundtable is a coalition of leaders throughout our community, black leaders, who are working to ensure that the people have power to do the things necessary in a community to get the things that they want, like some of the things that we'll talk about in the demands. But we wanna make sure that our people are able to thrive and to live in this community in Milwaukee. Now, let's talk a little bit about the demands. You guys made news recently, when you came up with a list of demands. What are those demands and how do you plan to get them accomplished? Absolutely, so just to give a little background on that, last year, the African-American Roundtable started a campaign called Liberate MKE. We launched it last year on Juneteenth and we, pretty much the coalition of folks on the quarantine in the African-American Roundtable tried to figure out, what can we organize around together? So many of us are doing so many things around jails, around healthcare, all sorts of topics, but what was one thing that we could agree on and build on? And we all agree that the police budget was completely unjust and out of whack. And so once we went and looked at it and started to share that information with people, realizing that the city budget was almost 50% of the entire city budget, we knew then that this was an opportunity for us to engage the community and to allow them to organize around their own ideas. So that's where Liberate MKE came from. It came from a community idea on how we can get investment back into our community and it helped straighten an unjust budget out. And so our request last year was a $25 million divestment from Milwaukee Police Department to go back into community initiatives like violence prevention, youth employment, housing. And so last year, we were actually able to organize the community come out to get $15 million divested with 900,000 of that money going to our youth employment for summer Earn & Learn, also to affordable quality housing. We have a program that we still are working to put together. And then, the last thing would be violence interruption. So we just built upon that and we know, in the environment we're in right now, we're hearing defund the police all over the country and we're glad that we were able to start this work, last year, and start to educate our community around what it looks like to get investment back. So it's not about people, oh you guys are this about the police, that about the police. We're about community and community investment. So some of the demands that we have are specifically for public safety. We know that police do not keep us safe. They are not intervening bodies, they are reactionary bodies, and so we have asked for a $75 million divestment from MPD to reinvest back into building healthy communities that can thrive. And we want $50 million to go back into public health and $25 million into housing cooperatives. Another one of our demands are the rights of protestors, being respected and not harmed, and no harm come to them. We know that our mayor, our police chief, along with the county executive ask Governor Evers to bring the National Guard here. That isn't what keeps people safe, it's a waste of tax payers' money. Or whoever's paying for it, it's a waste of their money and we would prefer to see that protestors who have the right are not tear gassed, they're not hit with rubber bullets. And any of the tickets or the fines that they're receiving in regards to that would be dropped. We are also asking for justice for Joel Acevedo. We know that the officer was charged and has yet to be terminated, and so we stand with the family and ask that the Fire and Police Commission, Chief Morales, whoever's hands it is, to assure this family that he will be fired. And we're also asking for the three named accomplices in the criminal complaint to also be brought to justice. We also are asking the FPC to continue to be the voice of the community. As a civilian body, we want to ensure that that investigation of that officer remains with the FPC and not go back to the police department. We also want to ensure that the accountability to the community would rest with the community and that Common Council President, Cavalier Johnson, to immediately appoint members to the community and collaborative community, which did the work around the DOJ recommendations after Dontre's murder. The last two would be around responding to the executive order to bring the National Guard here. So instead of the National Guard coming here, we're asking that housing, that implementation, and a moratorium on evictions, foreclosures, rents, mortgage, utility, and disconnections for Milwaukee Country Residents, through the end of 2020, be put in order. We are still in a pandemic. I think people are forgetting because of the stay at home that are lifting and people are going out. We're still fighting COVID. The last one is healthcare, a declaration of racism in the state of Wisconsin, as a public health crisis. Public and private institutions must be expanded to insure Milwaukee County Residents and have access to affordable healthcare. We were able to get some of these demands from SJAC, which is Saint's Jo's Accountability Coalition, that came together when Ascension was looking to really shut down and debunk Saint Jo's Hospital. Yeah, those are quite a bit of demands. Do you believe the mayor and the Common Council have the fortitude to make the necessary changes to NPD in this new age of policing? We believe that a lot of this power, we know, rests with the mayor. We know a lot of this power sits with the chief, but we know also that the Fire and Police Commission is the most powerful governing body in the country. So a lot of this power also resides with them around SOP. But also, the mayor and the Common Council have a hand in this budget and how this money is going to be invested in or outside of the community. And again, we are also knowing that the Fire and Police Commission and Chief Morales, they have an obligation to answer that call to Joel Acevedo's family about whether or not that officer's gonna be terminated. It's one of the two that can do it. They need to figure out who that is and make it happen. Pastor, the question for you is, what role should the church play, especially now, in the realm of social justice? The church needs to walk alongside the community. Prayerfully, it's been doing that already, but if not, it does need to do that. To hear my case, I had said what is the heart of the community or what are the demands of the community? How can we amplify the voice of community, how can we speak truth to power? Sometimes, our voice will be received differently than those at the grassroots level in the community organizers. And so sometimes, we need to raise our voice, loudly, when we see injustice, a lack of accountability taking place here in the city. As we talk about the demands and different community organizers coming together and the church being a part of the conversation and having demands, how long are you guys prepared to wait? If that's something that you're told by people in leadership positions, is that a conversation that group organizations are having? Yeah, there is no time for waiting. We're beyond waiting. I think I read this in an article last night with Darril Gibson from Lit. This is the moment. There is no waiting, there is no taking pauses. We have been asking for these types of things for years and years and years. People have now taken the streets to where I think it's going on 11 or 12 days. The time is now for people to respond to what people in this community want, what taxpayers are paying for. These are out tax dollars and we deserve, today, the investment that the people in this city deserve and the people in this city need to live and to thrive. So no, we're not having any questions and conversations around what the time table's gonna look like. No, we are demanding these things need to be done ASAP. People wanna be a part of this movement. They feel like they wanna do something. What can people do, how can they be a part of this? People need to support what's already going on. That's one thing, but also, take some time to do some learning. The church needs to learn and the community who's never been engaged in this work needs to learn. Also, figure out what is your purpose? What is the call that God has put in your life? What is is that you love to do? You might be a communications person, you might love social media, you might love speaking out and typing up emails to city and elected officials. Figure out what it is that you're really good at and find a way to support these organizations that are already doing the work on the ground. What happens after the protest, what's next? Absolutely, well right now, I don't think these protests are gonna stop until some of these demands are met. So right now, it's what can happen after the protests, which is continually developing leaders. Teaching people how to organize. We are doing an amazing job in Milwaukee with Frank Nitty and Khalil really leading and mobilizing people to the streets, which is an important part of the movement. We're to keep the energy going and to keep our face and our messages in front of people until we get what we want. And I'm hearing that they are ready to stay in those streets until we get what we want. If you can, try to help us understand what that divest, when you take money from the police department and you put it into programs, how does crime go down and how does that improve community and neighborhoods and things like that? Can you walk us through that process of how you envision this working? Absolutely, so when we started Liberate MKE, we partnered with black leaders organizing for communities and the one thing that I know Black had been doing since August of 2017 when they hit the ground, knocking on doors daily up until COVID hit, was having conversations with people. What would it look like for you to survive? Just a really simple question. And people said stuff like access to food. Clean water, access to transportation so we can get to jobs, quality education. You know, people know that when they have the things that they need, their basic needs met, we can reverse tons of things because guess what we're doing. We're actually preventing some things from happening because people are gonna have jobs, because people are gonna have access to food. And people are gonna have access to transportation to get to their jobs. So we're talking about what does prevention look like? And investing in prevention is a way better investment than doing something that doesn't, and there's been reports done, policing doesn't necessarily end crime. It doesn't slow crime, it doesn't wrap crime. So if we already have the reports out there, we have the messaging, and we know that prevention actually works, then what are we waiting for to put resources and money to what we know works? There has been an announcement about forming a commission for police reform. Has Liberate MKE been contacted or affiliated with this sentiment? So we're not sure what's happening, but it's very confusing to the community for the mayor to start another committee, when there's already another committee. I'm not for any more committees. We're over committees. We just want our demands met, at this point. What does real community policing look like? It looks like community being in control of their own community. We know that, and for some people that are like oh, I just can't see, I can't imagine any world without police. Well I could never imagine, I think, probably when I was younger, actually hearing that people would say defund the police, but guess what? That's the moment that we're in right now and we are saying, as this generation of people, we will not continue to stay in a status quo, to try to work within a system that we know has never worked and is not going to work. So that looks like us taking control of our own communities, which we know because of so much generational trauma, so much wrong and oppression and devaluing and divestment to our communities has caused a opportunity for us to take this step back and say okay. In the same vein I was talking about reinvesting into our communities, what does it look like for us to start also putting our own thing together around what it looks to community police, I won't even use the word police, but community control over our own communities to take care of ourselves. We know what we need to take care of ourselves. We need the resources poured in to help us to do that, and we're trying to do that with some of the initiatives that we've asked for. Yeah, yeah. Someone was sending me a private message, and they basically say that if we move to a strategy where we're removing police, it would be mayhem everywhere, and no one to control it. I pretty much know what your response will be to that, but I wanna hear it, anyway. Mhm, yeah so this is not something that we're about to get ready and do tonight. We are not about to get ready and do tomorrow. This is gonna have to be, again, a parallel conversation around investing resources simultaneously, while we are taking those investments and resources and putting together a plan, opportunities and programs, for our own community to be in their own communities, taking care of themselves, but we need resources. Money is needed for everything. The health department, in the current budget, goes towards 2021. I think they're getting under 3%. That's where the violence prevention program is. And also, I saw Nate mention, as well. We absolutely have to be involved in this budget process, talking about participatory budget. That's gonna be something else folks in the community will hear this year. We have to be at the table, not on the side of the table, not behind the table, not after the fact. We have to be at the table, making the decisions, because this is our city, we pay taxes, and they are actually working for us. Let's talk a little bit about some comments made by the police chief. He said water bottles were being thrown at officers. We've discussed the Molotov cocktail incident. And he also made some statements that I think some people would say got him in hot water where he compared his officers saying that they'd been crucified or something to that... Another disgusting comment. When you're-- - But my question. Go ahead. My question is this. He feels that a level of respect has been lost when it comes to citizens towards police. And I wanna see what you think about that. Can this be something that can be repaired, or what needs to take place? So the respect has been lost long time ago. You know, we could go back to the list, Derek Williams, Dontre Hamilton, the list is ongoing of people who have been killed by police, not just killed by police, but mishandled by police, the strip searches, the list can go on. So respect has been lost for police long time ago. Like I said, if it's rooted in slavery, I can't respect a culture that has not and will not change, it's clear. This culture cannot be changed because the root is, it's dead, it's rooted in something that will not allow people to live peacefully or safely. So if he wants to go back and backtrack to the history of policing and find out where respect was lost, he can go back to the beginning when they were put in place to herd people back and to make sure they were still on their passes, in the right neighborhoods. So no, we don't wanna hear about respect at this time, and as far as police, they're servants. So they should be already respecting the people that pay their salary, and the people that they are to serve. They put themselves in these positions. They applied for it, they got the job, so if you wanna serve the people, serve the people in the role that you're in or speak up and be that voice that says, "You know what, Officer Mattioli needs to be fired. "You're absolutely right, he needs to be fired, "he's gotta go." Speak up and be that voice and come from behind that blue shield. What does real solidarity between the community and the police look like to you? Yeah, I'll reiterate my last comment, it looks like police on the inside coming from behind the blue shield and saying, "Yeah, this is not only not right, but we support "the community that Officer Mattioli needs to go." So it's saying that and it's saying, "Yeah you know what, our budget is completely unjust "and out of whack, and just completely out of balance. "And we do need to figure out a way "of how we can defund ourselves "to make sure that our neighbors, if they live "in our communities, if the police even live "in our communities, if our neighbors are these communities "that we say we care about, have what they need." They need to speak up and come from behind the blue shield. -

Teran

of 10thirtysix

So I just wanna take a couple Facebook questions and any other comments about unification among groups in the movement. The movement is doing above what would think its capacity is to do. In other words, it's not well-resourced, doesn't have big dollars. This in the hearts and the passions and the minds of the people. One of the tragedies in this city and in other places that organize organizations and institutions that have the authority and the bandwidth to create structures to bring people together, are often not doing that. And so I know that all movements are organic with some structure and there are some opportunities to tie together. I do believe that Milwaukee, that the more we get an understanding of who we are, who does what well, and how we build together, we always say that people united will never be defeated. I think that's true, I wanted to comment on that. When Markasa was talking earlier about power and what the power institutions are, and I know she would have went further. She talked about the power of the City Common Council, the power of the mayor, the power of the Fire and Police Commission. The ultimate power is with the people, as we get more and more unified and organized. That's where the power is and that is a truth. That's where everybody needs to get on board. If the people who are in the seats of power had the capacity and the will to make these changes, they would have been made already. They have not been made, so either A, they lack the capacity to do it or B, they lack the will to do it, but it's not been done. And so it's gotta come from a different place. Thank you, James and Teran, for hosting that event on Facebook Live. It got a lot of engagement, a lot of people were liking and sharing their comments during it. So I just wanna ask, and I'll start with James, what struck you most about that conversation from Listen MKE? When Markasa Tucker was talking about the relationship between community and police, and how it's been fractured over the years, and she didn't believe that it could ever be fixed. And if you think about it, for a lot of things to work, we need police and citizens to work together and if that's a relationship that can never be repaired, then we're in for a long journey. Teran? I would have to say, as James said, there were a lot of points made, a very good conversation. I think there are two things that stuck with me in that she talked about that there's no more need for more commissions to be made, when there are organizations on the ground that have been doing this work for years. Trying to change the community. And we were speaking along with the FPC, another commission that was coming up for police reform. I've heard a number of people say, we didn't need more commissions. And then, the other thing that stuck out to me was, she's like we're not gonna wait anymore. Our leaders need to make moves, immediately. There was this feeling we waited long enough. There's no more waiting. We have these demands, they need to be met now or what we're seeing happening, the protesting, is gonna keep happening until there are changes made. One of the things that I've been telling friends and colleagues, as we've been talking, this is the universal conversation going on right now in America, is that the promise of our country is that change can happen quickly. We think about the span of history and time. We're 250 years old. You look at other places in the world, much older, ancient cultures, and here, change does happen. Think of where we were just in my mother's lifetime. So that does give me hope. Was there anything else hopeful that came out of that conversation on Facebook from Listen MKE for you? I guess, for me, that hope stems from the protestors and the young people who are out there, every day, marching and letting their voices be heard and not being deterred by the people from the outside telling them that their voices don't matter. Their voices do matter, their votes matter, and them being out there every day matters. And just to see that energy is refreshing and because of that, we will see change. I would echo James' comments. I'm not very much older than the youth that are out there, but I'm always like I love to see the young people getting involved and raising their voices on serious issues because people, they might write them off like they're too young. They don't understand what's going on. But these kids, they see everything and they're out there with their parents and their friends and that gives me hope. With that, thank you Teran Powell from WUWM Milwaukee's NPR and to James Causey from Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. Listen MKE, I think it's a great platform and I'm proud that Milwaukee PBS is able to partner and to be able to give it even more eyes and ears to be able to listen to these very important conversations that communities have. And thank you for watching this special edition of 10thirtysix, hoping that we all learn something, so we can better understand some of the issues that we're facing in our community. Watch for our website, milwaukeepbs.org and our Facebook page for updates about the future of Listen MKE programs, and to hear more voices and responses putting change in place. Thank you for watching this special edition of 10thirtysix. I'm Portia Young. (bright, resonant music)